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#1 itsjustme

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 05:26 AM

Here's a pretty big update to the Squetch Rig. Thanks to Mark Skodacek and David Seymour for their help in getting the additions in this release.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Limb bowing has been added...the bicep/forearm/thigh/calf bones have the ability to bow using percentage poses in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls" and "Animation_Controls/Leg_Controls" Pose folders.

The limb bowing also added subdivisions of the biceps/forearms/thighs/calves...each is divided into four now. Which adds the ability to squetch each subdivision. The bicep flexing uses the added underlying squetch nulls (which can be unhidden using the on/off poses in the "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/ARMS" and "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/LEGS" folders) and is driven by two percentage poses in the "Rig_Components/arm_constraints_folder" that automatically gradually turn off the bicep flexing as the arm is stretched. Those poses can be manually adjusted if necessary...they adjust the amount of flexing that will occur, they don't actually flex the biceps.

The elbows and knees can be bent in any direction using the rotate manipulators in FK...which works very well with the limb bowing already mentioned.

The arms and legs can scale-to-reach the IK controllers in IK...you can also set the point at which the elbow/knee bends when squashing. This means that you can stretch out the arm/leg and have it bend on the return to normal/squash at anywhere from 10% to 200% of the original size. The Poses are located in the "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/ARMS" and "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/LEGS" folders.

There are improved mouth in/out poses...it is actually a simpler design, but does a lot better job. Also, the in/out poses are divided up into more subdivisions so that you can get a more natural look.

The eyelid geometry bones got re-parented to make Smartskinning the eyelids easier...just apply the Smartskins to the eyelid_geom bones and the auto eyelid stuff will work with it.

There are now constraints on the "FACE Interface - Master" bone in the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Constraints (do not touch)/Face Control Constraints" pose that make it "orient like" and "translate to" the "head_control" bone. The constraints are set to 0% enforcement and can be applied with a compensate once everything has been positioned to keep the FACE controls tied to the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll post the example model that will replace Squetchy Thom in the next day or so...I still have to add a few poses to his face. There will be more installations posted soon, these are what I have finished at the moment.

If you have v13s or better, I highly recommend Mark Skodacek's Posable installation tutorial which starts here. Mark will be posting an update to the Posable installation model pretty soon.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files in the ZIP posted here, there are instructions for installing them inside. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki...some of it will get updated by tomorrow.

If anyone finds a problem, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.


--------------------------------------------------
EDIT
--------------------------------------------------

There is a bug fix for this version in this post, I deleted the rig files in this post.

Attached Files



#2 GAngus

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 04:44 PM

I hope this is a good place for this question, anyway, here goes.... OK, I am getting started on The "Rig Along with me thread/project". I have downloaded all the "steps" and started a new project using "Rig_Along_With_Me" using "JD_no_bones". One of the first steps is: "Right click in a blank space in the modeling window and import the "13s_Posable_Five_Finger_Squetch_Rig_04_29_2007_installation" rig. I got to this point in wizards/plugs and nothing happens. Nothing. I would expect I would have to point AM to someplace on my hard drive where the rig was and allow it to load or some thing but I get NO response at all here. Please note, I am using a Mac OSX 10.4.9 and for information sake I have in my HXT folders: AM 13.0s InstallRig.hxt Created-Modified-& Last opened 1/23/07. (from 2007 Hash CD)? also, but have not tried it, I have in HXT folder... AM 14.0 Beta 2 InstallRig.hxt Created-Modified-& Last opened 4/11/07 Today, I downloaded another HXT from the WIKI with dates: 1/31/06. So, David, can you help me here, (?) OR, if any OSX users see this post, and have been successful with this up to now, could you please let me know what version you are using ? thanks. JA

#3 largento

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 05:00 PM

I hope this is a good place for this question, anyway, here goes....

OK, I am getting started on The "Rig Along with me thread/project".
I have downloaded all the "steps" and started a new project using "Rig_Along_With_Me" using "JD_no_bones".
One of the first steps is:
"Right click in a blank space in the modeling window and import the "13s_Posable_Five_Finger_Squetch_Rig_04_29_2007_installation" rig.
I got to this point in wizards/plugs and nothing happens. Nothing.
I would expect I would have to point AM to someplace on my hard drive where the rig was and allow it to load or some thing but I get NO response at all here.

Please note, I am using a Mac OSX 10.4.9 and for information sake I have in my HXT folders:
AM 13.0s InstallRig.hxt Created-Modified-& Last opened 1/23/07. (from 2007 Hash CD)?
also, but have not tried it, I have
in HXT folder... AM 14.0 Beta 2 InstallRig.hxt Created-Modified-& Last opened 4/11/07

Today, I downloaded another HXT from the WIKI with dates: 1/31/06.

So, David, can you help me here, (?) OR, if any OSX users see this post, and have been successful with this up to now, could you please let me know what version you are using ?
thanks.
JA



You import the rig as a model into the model. So right click and select Import->Model and then go to the posable rig in the Rig Along With Me/Models folder (that you download from the "Getting Started" thread.)

#4 rusty

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 05:43 PM

Hi! So here's a novel question (i.e. possibly stupid): Every time a new version of the Squetch Rig is posted, what do people do with it? Huh? Probably, people save it and use it for future rigging and, the models they've already rigged with previous versions either a) stay that way or, B) perhaps you re-rig them if you need to or feel like it (but, not every time new ones are posted?). But possibly, something else is meant to happen... perhaps there is some easy way to upgrade your existing 'rigged' models (UpGradeSquetchRig.hxt? Wouldn't that be something!). Anyway, I figured I'd best be finding out. Thanks, Rusty
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#5 Jeetman

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 05:52 PM

Here's a pretty big update to the Squetch Rig. Thanks to Mark Skodacek and David Seymour for their help in getting the additions in this release.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Limb bowing has been added...the bicep/forearm/thigh/calf bones have the ability to bow using percentage poses in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls" and "Animation_Controls/Leg_Controls" Pose folders.

The limb bowing also added subdivisions of the biceps/forearms/thighs/calves...each is divided into four now. Which adds the ability to squetch each subdivision. The bicep flexing uses the added underlying squetch nulls (which can be unhidden using the on/off poses in the "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/ARMS" and "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/LEGS" folders) and is driven by two percentage poses in the "Rig_Components/arm_constraints_folder" that automatically gradually turn off the bicep flexing as the arm is stretched. Those poses can be manually adjusted if necessary...they adjust the amount of flexing that will occur, they don't actually flex the biceps.

The elbows and knees can be bent in any direction using the rotate manipulators in FK...which works very well with the limb bowing already mentioned.

The arms and legs can scale-to-reach the IK controllers in IK...you can also set the point at which the elbow/knee bends when squashing. This means that you can stretch out the arm/leg and have it bend on the return to normal/squash at anywhere from 10% to 200% of the original size. The Poses are located in the "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/ARMS" and "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/LEGS" folders.

There are improved mouth in/out poses...it is actually a simpler design, but does a lot better job. Also, the in/out poses are divided up into more subdivisions so that you can get a more natural look.

The eyelid geometry bones got re-parented to make Smartskinning the eyelids easier...just apply the Smartskins to the eyelid_geom bones and the auto eyelid stuff will work with it.

There are now constraints on the "FACE Interface - Master" bone in the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Constraints (do not touch)/Face Control Constraints" pose that make it "orient like" and "translate to" the "head_control" bone. The constraints are set to 0% enforcement and can be applied with a compensate once everything has been positioned to keep the FACE controls tied to the head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll post the example model that will replace Squetchy Thom in the next day or so...I still have to add a few poses to his face. There will be more installations posted soon, these are what I have finished at the moment.

If you have v13s or better, I highly recommend Mark Skodacek's Posable installation tutorial which starts here. Mark will be posting an update to the Posable installation model pretty soon.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files in the ZIP posted here, there are instructions for installing them inside. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki...some of it will get updated by tomorrow.

If anyone finds a problem, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.


Is this the update to the poseable rig that Mark was talking about and do we just replace the poseable 5 finger squetch rig with this one?

George
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#6 itsjustme

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:01 PM

Hi!

So here's a novel question (i.e. possibly stupid): Every time a new version of the Squetch Rig is posted, what do people do with it? Huh?

Probably, people save it and use it for future rigging and, the models they've already rigged with previous versions either a) stay that way or, B) perhaps you re-rig them if you need to or feel like it (but, not every time new ones are posted?).

But possibly, something else is meant to happen... perhaps there is some easy way to upgrade your existing 'rigged' models (UpGradeSquetchRig.hxt? Wouldn't that be something!).

Anyway, I figured I'd best be finding out.

Thanks,
Rusty


It's a good question, Rusty...I haven't thought about making something that will upgrade a previously rigged character. I'll have to do some thinking on that. I could probably make some "update" versions...I think it would work, I don't see why not.

I'm guessing most people just put the update in a folder until the next character needs rigging...unless it's a critical fix.

Thanks for the question, Rusty...I'll see if I can get an answer worked out.

#7 itsjustme

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:04 PM

Is this the update to the poseable rig that Mark was talking about and do we just replace the poseable 5 finger squetch rig with this one?

George


No George, the Posable version of the rig is added on to this...it's some added installation bones and a bunch of additional poses. Mark will post an update that matches this update soon...probably tonight some time.

#8 itsjustme

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 06:28 PM

Hi!

So here's a novel question (i.e. possibly stupid): Every time a new version of the Squetch Rig is posted, what do people do with it? Huh?

Probably, people save it and use it for future rigging and, the models they've already rigged with previous versions either a) stay that way or, B) perhaps you re-rig them if you need to or feel like it (but, not every time new ones are posted?).

But possibly, something else is meant to happen... perhaps there is some easy way to upgrade your existing 'rigged' models (UpGradeSquetchRig.hxt? Wouldn't that be something!).

Anyway, I figured I'd best be finding out.

Thanks,
Rusty


It's a good question, Rusty...I haven't thought about making something that will upgrade a previously rigged character. I'll have to do some thinking on that. I could probably make some "update" versions...I think it would work, I don't see why not.

I'm guessing most people just put the update in a folder until the next character needs rigging...unless it's a critical fix.

Thanks for the question, Rusty...I'll see if I can get an answer worked out.



Here's a thought...if you use the Posable installation, you can save the Action out for future use. Then, you can start a new installation on the unrigged model and use Transfer_AW to transfer the original CP Weighting. It makes sense in my head.

What do you think? The only problem I see is if the geometry bones are changed...it would mean a little CP Weighting.

--------------------------------
EDIT
---------------------------------

I forgot to specify to use the original Action file for the second installation.

#9 rusty

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 08:26 PM

Here's a thought...if you use the Posable installation, you can save the Action out for future use. Then, you can start a new installation on the unrigged model and use Transfer_AW to transfer the original CP Weighting. It makes sense in my head.

What do you think? The only problem I see is if the geometry bones are changed...it would mean a little CP Weighting.

--------------------------------
EDIT
---------------------------------

I forgot to specify to use the original Action file for the second installation.


Well I'm glad my question was a good one. I simply saw new updates coming at a good clip and wondered how I was going handle this; jump in now or wait for the next or ???

I know very little yet about the rig or the pose driven install (I'm on step 4 or 5) but, what you suggest sounds pretty solid. The action saves the 'scaling' and would therefore scale a new rig (as long as the install bones did not change). If assignments and weighting are saved and can be re-applied by Transfer_AW (I haven't really looked at this plug-in yet nor for that matter done CP assignments and weighting for the Squetch rig) then, beyond smart skin, all that I think remains is the removal of the install bones and since I believe the plug-in that does this also gets updated when the rig does, that takes care of that. Except, as you point out, for changes in the geometry bones themselves and how often do those change?

What's driving the continued updates anyway? I assume either new features, improvements, bugs or all of these. Regardless, at some point the rig should stabilize and updates should drop to maybe yearly, if that... yes?

Rusty
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#10 mtpeak2

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 08:45 PM

David is always updating. As for installing new bone in the rig, update installation rigs can be made. Using a constraint setup to position the bones to where they need to be. Import the update, open action and export. The new bones would be in position, delete installation poses and run the install plug-in to parent the bones where they need to be. Deleting bones is a different story. Davids idea sounds like a good one, too. Save the install action from the first install. When new updates come up, you import the updated rig into your boneless model, save this over your install model. When you reopen the action, the new rig will be there and you export. Then using the transfer_AW plug-in to transfer the weights from your old model to the new one. If new geom bones are added, they will need cp assignments.
2008 Rig updated 04/20/2011

#11 Jeetman

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 09:56 PM

Is this the update to the poseable rig that Mark was talking about and do we just replace the poseable 5 finger squetch rig with this one?

George


No George, the Posable version of the rig is added on to this...it's some added installation bones and a bunch of additional poses. Mark will post an update that matches this update soon...probably tonight some time.


Thanks for the clarification :)

I have a rig control request that hopefully you can add to the squetch rig.

In posing the TWO characters there's one movement that a single added bone in FK and null in IK would give more control in the foot setup. In IK it would have to control the whole foot null. In FK it would control the foot, calf and thigh rotation. Both pivots would come from the center of the ball of the foot (like dancers and martial artists do when they pivot on their feet). here are some pics to show you where I mean.

null_front.jpg Null_side.jpg

bone_front.jpg bone_side.jpg

In the current rig set up, the heel control pivot point is basically on the heel only. There are times where pivoting from the ball of the foot is desirable. I've had to do this a few times by rotating by the heel then figuring out the translation center of the ball of the foot. I really hope that this control could be added.

Here's a mov showing Tin man demonstrating the movement. The only part to look at here is the foot pivot. the hips up would not be part of the control.

Attached File  tin_man_spinning.mov   1.91MB   147 downloads

Thanks George
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#12 itsjustme

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 11:09 PM

I have a rig control request that hopefully you can add to the squetch rig.

In posing the TWO characters there's one movement that a single added bone in FK and null in IK would give more control in the foot setup. In IK it would have to control the whole foot null. In FK it would control the foot, calf and thigh rotation. Both pivots would come from the center of the ball of the foot (like dancers and martial artists do when they pivot on their feet). here are some pics to show you where I mean.

In the current rig set up, the heel control pivot point is basically on the heel only. There are times where pivoting from the ball of the foot is desirable. I've had to do this a few times by rotating by the heel then figuring out the translation center of the ball of the foot. I really hope that this control could be added.

Here's a mov showing Tin man demonstrating the movement. The only part to look at here is the foot pivot. the hips up would not be part of the control.

Thanks George



Unfortunately, I wasn't able to view the video...sometimes my connection does this. So, what you're saying is that the "right/left_ball_rotate_controller" doesn't already do this? The "right/left_heel_controller" is for doing things like wrapping the foot around a balance beam types of things. Am I misunderstanding, George?

-----------------------------
EDIT
-----------------------------

I tried several times, but I still couldn't get the video to load more than one frame. I went ahead and made a quick little video of the right_ball_rotate_controller's use. Is that what you need, George?


-----------------------------
ANOTHER EDIT
-----------------------------

I checked Tinman...someone sometime moved the "left_ball_rotate" and "right_ball_rotate" bones. They were located where the toes connect to the foot initially. I'm not sure when or why they were moved, but it messed up the ability to do what I showed in the attached video. I corrected all the versions of Tinman, so re-download him and it will react better.

Attached Thumbnails

  • right_ball_rotate_controller.png

Attached Files



#13 itsjustme

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 11:44 PM

Well I'm glad my question was a good one. I simply saw new updates coming at a good clip and wondered how I was going handle this; jump in now or wait for the next or ???

I know very little yet about the rig or the pose driven install (I'm on step 4 or 5) but, what you suggest sounds pretty solid. The action saves the 'scaling' and would therefore scale a new rig (as long as the install bones did not change). If assignments and weighting are saved and can be re-applied by Transfer_AW (I haven't really looked at this plug-in yet nor for that matter done CP assignments and weighting for the Squetch rig) then, beyond smart skin, all that I think remains is the removal of the install bones and since I believe the plug-in that does this also gets updated when the rig does, that takes care of that. Except, as you point out, for changes in the geometry bones themselves and how often do those change?

What's driving the continued updates anyway? I assume either new features, improvements, bugs or all of these. Regardless, at some point the rig should stabilize and updates should drop to maybe yearly, if that... yes?

Rusty


It was a very good question, Rusty. We'll see what direction the answer takes. If anyone gets some successful experiments, please share them with the group. When I get some time, I'll do some messing with it too.

You should be able to drag any Smartskins you added from your previously rigged model onto the newly updated installation, so you wouldn't have to re-do those.

The InstallRig plugin removes all of the installation bones, so no problem there.

The geometry bones don't change usually...they changed significantly this time because of the limb bowing needing each section divided into four, but this is the first change in those in quite a while. I also added some roll geometry bones to the corners of the mouth...the other lip bones already had them.

The updates are driven by bug fixes, improvements and features. I don't know if updates will drop off to once a year, but anything is possible. There's always a better mouse trap. Right now, I've got one planned update to the rig that needs a little more fleshing out...so I know that that will be added eventually. I also have a few add-ons that I need to tackle. Things have been moving very quickly from my point of view...it's hard to keep up sometimes, but I like where it's going.

#14 itsjustme

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 12:21 AM

This one is a bug fix. :)

A huge thanks to Mark Skodacek for finding and tracking down the problem (it was buried pretty deep). If you are in the middle of an installation, you can put the fix in by deleting the Relationship in the "Rig_Components/arm_constraints_folder/arm_constraints" pose then dragging that same Relationship from this version onto your model.

Mark should have an updated Posable installation posted in the next day or so. It will have this fix and some additional Posable Rig specific optimizations.


If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.


----------------------------
EDIT
----------------------------

I found something else I needed to fix...the next fix is located here.

#15 GAngus

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 03:47 AM

You import the rig as a model into the model. So right click and select Import->Model and then go to the posable rig in the Rig Along With Me/Models folder (that you download from the "Getting Started" thread.) OK, thanks for that Largento. That works for me here. That gets me back on track with the "Getting Started" tut. I'm still curious about which InstallRig.hxt version I should have installed for 13s or B2 with my Mac. I have since discovered a 3rd one dated 11-14-05 which I think was in the Rig_Along_With_Me downloaded folder. Perhaps its as simple as I should just use the newest one, and leave it at that. right ? Again, can any Mac users confirm which vers. they are using (date?) Thanks EDIT- sorry I inserted this in the wrong thread.

#16 itsjustme

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:54 AM

Wouldn't you know it...shortly after posting the last update, I found something else to fix. I had to re-order the Poses in FACE because of a change I made to the eyelid constraints...it should be fixed now.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.

---------------------------
EDIT
---------------------------

The next updated is located here.

#17 ypoissant

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:28 AM

I checked Tinman...someone sometime moved the "left_ball_rotate" and "right_ball_rotate" bones. They were located where the toes connect to the foot initially. I'm not sure when or why they were moved, but it messed up the ability to do what I showed in the attached video. I corrected all the versions of Tinman, so re-download him and it will react better.

This rig never cease to amaze me. I, too, had this issue of turning scarecrow foot on the ball and had to fight with the heel null and then compensate. Had I know about that ball rorate thingy, that would have been much easier. Thanks for this. Next time, I'm gong to use that bone. Rotating on the ball happens so often.
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#18 rusty

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:10 AM

Hi, This might be the wrong thread, if so let me know. As I understand it the current rig for the 'pose-able install' is a special one and, we are waiting for a bug to be fixed and a new version to be posted... is that right? Does this special version of the rig come from someone else? If so, and given the frequency of new versions, it may be difficult to keep this special rig in sync with the rest. I might add that its hard to see why anyone would not choose the 'pose-able install' (except where a certain flavor of the rig does not have this option) but I'm sure that even where someone might prefer the the non-special version they could still installed the 'special version' manually -- the install poses deleted or ignored (provided there were no deeper changes). I guess I'm saying that it might be better to just make the poses part of the regular rig and not have a 'special version'. I could be wrong. Just a thought. Thanks, Rusty
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#19 mtpeak2

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 02:08 PM

Hi Rusty. Yes, I will try to post an update to the posable rig sometime today. Yes, the posable rig comes from me. The posable rig is designed for an action install. I did alot of reparenting of the install bones and added a few to allow me to do what I wanted it to do, added a constraint system to pose the rig without having to go through all the steps of a manual installation. So, in other words, the posable rig probably wouldn't be able to be installed correctly, installing it manually.
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#20 itsjustme

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 03:20 PM

As Mark said, the Posable installation can't be manually installed in the same way. This recent set of updates was pretty extensive, so there are a few more bugs, it should settle down in a day or so. Mark and I have been coordinating our efforts. I'll be posting another bug fix late tonight, just in case I find anything else. I e-mailed Mark, so his next version will have the fixes that I am aware of at the moment. I'll be using tomorrow's date in the next version...05_02_2007. As far as I know, it will be stable at that point. Sorry for any inconvenience this is causing anyone.

#21 itsjustme

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 03:27 PM

This rig never cease to amaze me. I, too, had this issue of turning scarecrow foot on the ball and had to fight with the heel null and then compensate. Had I know about that ball rorate thingy, that would have been much easier. Thanks for this. Next time, I'm gong to use that bone. Rotating on the ball happens so often.


If you run across any other TWO character where the heel raising doesn't work as it should, let me know and I'll get it fixed, Yves.

#22 itsjustme

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 04:40 AM

I think any problems have now been worked out. Here's the latest versions...the Posable version that matches this update is located here.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.

#23 rusty

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 04:09 PM

Hi Rusty.

Yes, I will try to post an update to the posable rig sometime today.

Yes, the posable rig comes from me.

The posable rig is designed for an action install. I did alot of reparenting of the install bones and added a few to allow me to do what I wanted it to do, added a constraint system to pose the rig without having to go through all the steps of a manual installation. So, in other words, the posable rig probably wouldn't be able to be installed correctly, installing it manually.


Like... totally awesome dude!

(Like this is California!)

:-)

Rusty
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#24 rusty

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 04:12 PM

Sorry for any inconvenience this is causing anyone.


Inconvenience?!? Look again! And thanks again! To both of you!

Rusty
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#25 rusty

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 07:14 PM

David Simmons and Mark Skodacek, Both of you have my total respect and admiration -- the Squetch rig is, IMHO, simply a masterpiece of engineering and rigging and, the Posable Action Install (hopefully I have the name right this time) is absolutely total killer. I think the last thing I've seen that rivals your accomplishments in the AM user world, is what Raf Anzovin did with AM's V8.5 cloth implementation in his 'Animation Apprentice' short (Sig 2001 I think) -- while the rest of us struggled with flags and capes, the shirt on Raf's little dog flew and waved all over the place in absolute perfection and he made it look easy. (If that comparison offends anyone, in anyway, for any reason forgive me, I'm dumb.) Now that I've hopefully buttered you up (but I do mean every word of the above)... I have a slightly unique situation... in a word, I must separate the 'head rig and head pose install' from the 'body rig and body pose install'. And do so with each update! My character models can't be tied to outfits and so my character models are just 'head and neck' and, everything below the neck is 'wardrobe'. I will attempt to fend for myself on this (and, though I'm nowhere near your level, I'm 'okay' in the rig building department). I know you'll try to answer any specific questions I come up with as I get into it because... you guys are awesome. However, any tips or thoughts you have on this now, off the top of your heads, would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Rusty
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#26 itsjustme

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:05 PM

I will attempt to fend for myself on this (and, though I'm nowhere near your level, I'm 'okay' in the rig building department). I know you'll try to answer any specific questions I come up with as I get into it because... you guys are awesome. However, any tips or thoughts you have on this now, off the top of your heads, would be greatly appreciated.


I'm just happy it's doing the job you need done, Rusty...that's the goal.

As for your specific need...are you saying you just want the head because you already have a body rigged with the Squetch Rig, or you have another rig/no rig that needs a Squetch Rig head? I could fix up a special version for you whichever the case is...I just need to make sure which way. Or is it something else that I'm not getting?

#27 rusty

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 08:38 AM

I will attempt to fend for myself on this (and, though I'm nowhere near your level, I'm 'okay' in the rig building department). I know you'll try to answer any specific questions I come up with as I get into it because... you guys are awesome. However, any tips or thoughts you have on this now, off the top of your heads, would be greatly appreciated.


I'm just happy it's doing the job you need done, Rusty...that's the goal.

As for your specific need...are you saying you just want the head because you already have a body rigged with the Squetch Rig, or you have another rig/no rig that needs a Squetch Rig head? I could fix up a special version for you whichever the case is...I just need to make sure which way. Or is it something else that I'm not getting?


David,

Now your confusing me! LOL! Actually all my models... that is 'my heads' and, most of my wardrobe 'outfits' (i.e. bodies) are currently rigged (v1.0 models: Muscle mode based on Animating Facial Features & Expressions by Bill Fleming / TSM1; v2.0 models: Freeman Face Rig (SIG 2004) and 3D controls based on Stop Starring, Osipa 2003 / TSM2). I constrain the heads to the bodies in the chor (also the hairdos are added this way).

However, for our purposes pretend nothing is rigged. I want to upgrade all to the Squetch Rig / Posable Install. I want to improve my models and also standardize their construction. I can simply marry a head to an outfit and use the Squetch Rig / Posable Install as is (and I will do exactly this during the evaluation period) but eventually I'll need to separate the head and body of the Squetch / Posable Install. One thing this means is that the rig that controls the neck/throat be altered so it is driven by the head but I see this as an add-on to the head rig -- I already have most of this sub-system developed.

As usual I'm putting out too much info and confusing the issue. Bottom line, I need to figure out how to modify the Squetch Rig / Posable Install so I can rig bodies and heads separately. For bodies I think this just means cutting off the head part. For heads... hopefully I can just cut out the body part.

I'm blown away by your "I could fix up a special version for you" -- how much other work will you do for free LOL! Seriously, that is a very generous offer. However, unless you see a need (beyond just myself) for a separate head and body rig 'and' can talk Mark into doing the pose work and other changes for these new rig types (I certainly want the posable install) 'and', on top of this, be willing to add these to the rigs you must update... this does not seem like it would be an economical approach for you guys -- don't you have enough to do?

In any event, though I have no doubt I'll use the rig(s), I must install and evaluate them before I know for certain and clearly, any 'work' done toward my special implementation must also wait.

Cheers,
Rusty
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#28 itsjustme

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 02:46 PM

It would pretty much be just deleting the body stuff for the head installation and deleting the head stuff for the body installation, Rusty. For installing a head on a non-Squetch Rig it would also mean changing the parenting instructions for the InstallRig plugin...still, not a problem. The neck in the Squetch Rig is driven by the head, so no problem there. I just need to know what bone you want everything parented to...if it's the Squetch Rig, then I wouldn't have to change anything. I do what I can...let me know what you need and when you need it.

#29 rusty

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 04:30 PM

It would pretty much be just deleting the body stuff for the head installation and deleting the head stuff for the body installation, Rusty.


That's pretty much what I thought but you never know if some element crosses over. BTW, as I do realistic characters I rarely if ever do any kind of squash and stretch. I know I should and with this rig perhaps I will.

For installing a head on a non-Squetch Rig it would also mean changing the parenting instructions for the InstallRig plugin...still, not a problem.


My plan is to have the Squetch Rig on both head and body but yes, I could run into this situation later as I'm probably not going to convert all my bodies right away. I don't know what you mean by parenting instructions but then I haven't done anything yet with the Squetch Rig or Posable Install (past step 3) -- don't take this wrong, LOL, but I'm giving it a day or so after an updarte... to see if yet another update comes out. :-) I plan to jump back into rigging full time tomorrow (today is AO and 'key group poses').

I just need to know what bone you want everything parented to...if it's the Squetch Rig, then I wouldn't have to change anything.


I simply parent the head's head bone to the body's head bone -- that's what I have been doing anyway with the TSM2 body rig (I've been calling the head's head bone 'head proxy' in the head but this does not matter). This way when I have the body selected I can animate the body and head (almost like a normal model). Then I select the head for all the other head stuff.

I do what I can...let me know what you need and when you need it.


I appreciate that and I certainly will!

Thanks again!
Rusty
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"Buy real estate! Then buy more and more and more!"
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www.virtualmediastudios.com

"The SPIRAL SLAYER" A Sci-fi Epic -- Work In Progress at Virtualmedia Studios

System Info:
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#30 itsjustme

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 05:18 PM

I don't know what you mean by parenting instructions but then I haven't done anything yet with the Squetch Rig or Posable Install (past step 3) -- don't take this wrong, LOL, but I'm giving it a day or so after an updarte... to see if yet another update comes out. :-) I plan to jump back into rigging full time tomorrow (today is AO and 'key group poses').


The installation bones have "INSTALL" in their name, everything after the word "INSTALL" is the parenting information...the part of the name before "INSTALL" helps to keep from trying to name two bones the same (which wouldn't work). The InstallRig plugin deletes any bone with "INSTALL" in the name and parents the bones according to the parenting information...there is also the ability to set a bone as attached to parent by using "(attached_to_parent)" in the name.

I made a tutorial on how to put together an installation rig that is located here...there is also a link on the Wiki page, which is in my signature.

Hope that helps, Rusty.

#31 rusty

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 06:29 PM

Hope that helps, Rusty.


Dho! Oooookay, I get it now. BTW, I've watched ALL of your videos -- some more than once! Great stuff. I just didn't make the connection at first.... you know, lol, connecting 'parenting' with... 'parenting'. :-/

Thanks,
Rusty
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"The SPIRAL SLAYER" A Sci-fi Epic -- Work In Progress at Virtualmedia Studios

System Info:
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#32 itsjustme

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Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:21 AM

Okay, I've taken way too long getting this done...and he could be better, but, here's a rigged character to use as reference, Squetchy Sam. He should be a decent guide for doing your CP Weighting and checking your poses against. The chest in/out weighting is pretty sloppy...I didn't realize I hadn't done it until I was about to upload. I'll go back and tweak that and a few other things for any future releases of the rig.

The new toys are located in the "Animation_Controls/Arm_Controls" and "Animation_Controls/Leg_Controls" folders for the limb bowing and the "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/ARMS" and "Animation_Controls/Squetch_Controls/LEGS" for the scale-to-reach stuff. The updates are listed in the first post in this thread.

If anyone finds a problem, let me know and I'll get it fixed as fast as I can.


----------------------------------
EDIT
----------------------------------

The next update is located here...I deleted the versions located in this post.

#33 itsjustme

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 02:43 AM

Here are a couple of example videos (Sorenson3 encoded Quicktime files, no audio)...one for how the limb bowing controls work and one for the scale-to-reach controls. While messing with this, I found out that the in the "left_shoulder_geom" bone wasn't being hidden. To fix this, delete the reference to that bone ("left_shoulder_geom") in the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_non_tweaking_bones" Pose for now. I'll make sure it is corrected in the next release, but I'll wait for a little while to make sure there isn't anything else that needs fixing.

Attached Files



#34 itsjustme

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 04:45 AM

Here's an updated standalone set of FACE installations. There are three versions, FACE by itself, FACE with tongue and FACE with the entire bones face rig. The installation plugin will need a bone named "head" to parent everything to. These should work for v11.1, v12, v13 and v14.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin as well.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.


------------------------------
EDIT
------------------------------

This file was deleted, the next release of this is here.

#35 rusty

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 07:13 AM

Here are a couple of example videos (Sorenson3 encoded Quicktime files, no audio)...one for how the limb bowing controls work and one for the scale-to-reach controls.

While messing with this, I found out that the in the "left_shoulder_geom" bone wasn't being hidden. To fix this, delete the reference to that bone ("left_shoulder_geom") in the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_non_tweaking_bones" Pose for now. I'll make sure it is corrected in the next release, but I'll wait for a little while to make sure there isn't anything else that needs fixing.


Smart move! A list of this kind of 'self' fixes; letting stuff build up for the next release and in many cases allowing the user easy fixes they can apply to their rigged models and the rig.

This post brought back memories of my early programming days when I'd beat myself up for the stupid mistakes I'd make and the total embarrassment of re-release, re-release -- finally I learned to do effectively what you've just done and also... that a) this is complicated stuff, B) humans make mistakes and the number is proportionate to the level of complication and c) it is very hard, if not impossible, to test your own work.
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#36 rusty

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 07:19 AM

Here's an updated standalone set of FACE installations. There are three versions, FACE by itself, FACE with tongue and FACE with the entire bones face rig. The installation plugin will need a bone named "head" to parent everything to. These should work for v11.1, v12, v13 and v14.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin as well.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.


Awesome dude! Now I'll hope for a 'posable' version of this but, since I have only six character models right now (heads), this is good enough! And I do see a need for this... you're going to have faces on characters that have 8, 6 and 0 legs (i.e. no ready made Squetch rig for the body).

Rusty
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www.virtualmediastudios.com

"The SPIRAL SLAYER" A Sci-fi Epic -- Work In Progress at Virtualmedia Studios

System Info:
(Primary Development Box/Slave 1) Alienware Aurora ALX / Intel Core i7 960 (3.2GHz, 8MB Cache)
9GB Triple Channel 1333Mhz DDR3 / Single ATI Radeon HD 5970, 2GB GDDR5
1.2TB RAID 0 (2x 640GB SATA-II, 7,200 RPM, 16MB Cache HDDs)
Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit / Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio
(Devl Sys 2/Render Slave 2) Alienware M14xR2 / Windows 8 (64bit) SP0
Intel® Core™ i7-3630QM CPU @ 2.40GHz /6 Gb RAM /NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M
Hitachi HTS727550A9E364 7200 RPM 465.8 GB / Sound Blaster Recon3Di
(Render Farm Slaves 3-8 -- XP Prof SP2) (Devl Sys 1/Render Slave 1) Boxx 3200, Athlon 64X2 4800+, 3GB DDR400, Win7 64bit;
Dell/Dim8200/P4 2.53GHz/1Gb; 2xDell/Dim2350/Celeron
2GHz/1Gb; Dell/Oplex/2xP3 866MHz/1Gb; HP P3 800MHz/512Mb; eMachine P3 800MHz/512Mb

#37 itsjustme

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 09:51 PM

Here's another update...the fixes are:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Fixed the hiding of the "left_shoulder_geom" bone.

Fixed the percentage of "aim roll at" on the "hips_lower_controller" in the "Auto_hips" pose.

Checked the "upper_lip_to_Maxilla" pose, it was specific to the Posable rig and Mark fixed that.

Added "right/left_thigh_bow_Y" poses in the "Animation_Controls/Leg_Controls" folder...they work the same as the arm versions. I initially thought they wouldn't be needed, but, after some messing with it, I found out they are.

Updated the compensates resetting documentation to reflect the changes in this version.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark should have the Posable update posted tomorrow sometime barring any complications.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.




-------------------------------------------
EDIT
-------------------------------------------

The next update is located here. These files were deleted.

#38 mtpeak2

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:41 PM

New update to the posable squetch installation rigs have been posted to the "Getting Started" thread, in the original download location. Future updates will either be posted here or in a new thread. Thanks
2008 Rig updated 04/20/2011

#39 itsjustme

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 03:33 AM

I updated the versions of Squetchy Sam in this post...the underarms were bothering me. I'll sync back up the naming when a new version is made...which will be a while, unless there are problems found.

#40 Paul Forwood

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 01:39 PM

Very nice model and rig! I can see poor old Thom feeling left out soon. Well done David, Mark and Jeff! A couple of things that I noticed: 1) It was not possible to translate the neck bone forward without creasing the neck. 2) I wasn't able to push Squetchy Sam's eye widening to the extremes that I would have liked. ------------------------------------
Fishin' Music video CURRENTLY ON HOLD...again!

#41 itsjustme

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 06:33 AM

I broke some things in the limb bowing on the last update, so, this corrects them. It also makes the "Y" bowing poses able to work on their own now. Squetchy Sam's eyes widen better, his neck splineage and weighting is a little better, his chest in/out and stomach in/out poses are better, modified the center of Sam's face a little and adjusted the upper nose weighting for improved Sneer poses. Also, the compensates documentation has been updated.

Thanks to Paul Forwood for giving Sam a going over.

Mark should have the Posable update posted today sometime barring any complications.

If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.



-----------------------------------
EDIT
-----------------------------------

These files deleted, the next update is located here.

#42 Rodney

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 10:27 AM

I have definitely not been keeping up and probably will fall even farther behind but took a few minutes to explore. Squetchy Sam is just incredible. What an outstanding character and rig to learn to animate with. Outstanding work guys! :)
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#43 mtpeak2

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:06 PM

Posable version has been updated here.
2008 Rig updated 04/20/2011

#44 itsjustme

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 01:55 AM

This update should catch the Quad rig up to the Biped rig and some assorted other things.

The updates in this version are:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

BIPED
-------

Added "head_sizing" pose. I thought I had already done this...now, I actually did.

Changed FACE to "orient like head_geom_front"...it helps when squetching the head.

Changed the hiding of the FACE controls to using bones instead of muscle...that will eliminate one step in installation and help when doing any extreme squetching of the head (sometimes the hidden controls would move outside of the head).

Fixed the hiding of two bones in the arms...it was already fixed in the Posable version, this just catches it up.

In the "Rig_Components/leg_constraints_folder/leg_constraints" Pose there are now these constraints (they help prevent some calf rolling):

a. left_calf_target_SQUETCH ("translate to left_calf")
b. right_calf_target_SQUETCH ("translate to right_calf")

Updated the instructions for resetting the compensates.

Updated the "show_geom_bones" and "hide_non_tweaking_bones" poses to reflect the changes that the bowing poses introduced.

Subdivided the bowing poses for finer control.



-------------------
QUAD
------------------

The Quad rig is now caught up with the biped rig (limb bowing, scale-to-reach stuff, etc). In addition, the tail is slightly improved. The biped tail has also been updated to match.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




--------------------------
EDIT
--------------------------

I deleted these files (except the biped tail), the next update is located here.

Attached Files



#45 T-Dogg

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 02:03 AM

Hey, I got it first! Thanks David! :-) I know dialup is pretty slow, but I recently lost my internet completely for a while and I would have killed just to have dialup. I was suffering from withdrawal!

#46 itsjustme

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 03:11 AM

Hey, I got it first! Thanks David! :-)

I know dialup is pretty slow, but I recently lost my internet completely for a while and I would have killed just to have dialup. I was suffering from withdrawal!



LOL! You lapped me, Tony!

#47 itsjustme

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 11:31 PM

I realized today that I forgot to update the standalone FACE for non-Squetch Rig characters...so, here it is. This will bring it up to date with the latest Squetch Rig.

The installer will look for a bone named "head" to parent everything to. You'll need the InstallRig plugin. If you're using v11.1, you'll also need the DLL files located here. These FACE installations should work for v11.1, v12, v13 and v14.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.



--------------------------------
EDIT
--------------------------------

I deleted this file, the next release is locate here.

#48 itsjustme

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 02:12 AM

While working on the Tin Owl's legs, I found out that somewhere along the line a constraint on the toes in the v12 and v13 installations went missing. This is a fix for that, the v11.1 installations are the same but re-named to avoid confusion. If you have the last version installed (v12 or v13), you can just add an "orient like right/left_toes_IK_manual_pointer" to the "right/left_toes_manual_controller" in IK in the leg IK/FK poses...or, you can replace the leg IK/FK poses and reset your compensates.

I also did a little tweaking to some of Squetchy Sam's face poses.



The Posable installation rig should be posted in the next day or so barring any complications.


If you are using v11.1, you'll need the DLL files located here, there are instructions for installing them inside the ZIP file. You will need the InstallRig plugin for all versions. For the MirrorBones versions, you'll need the MirrorBone plugin. There is more information and additional versions on the Wiki.

If anyone finds something that needs to be corrected, let me know and I'll fix it as fast as I can.



----------------------------------
EDIT
----------------------------------

I deleted these files, the next release is located here.

#49 T-Dogg

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Posted 15 June 2007 - 03:54 AM

David, you rock! Not just for making this thing, but also for always being so helpful.

#50 rusty

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 01:40 PM

Did the updated Posable installation rig get posted somewhere yet? Rusty PS: Yes I'm still here. :-)
"There's always an answer."
"Buy real estate! Then buy more and more and more!"
--------------------
Rusty Williamson
Owner

Virtualmedia Studios
An R & D effort to promote reading.
www.virtualmediastudios.com

"The SPIRAL SLAYER" A Sci-fi Epic -- Work In Progress at Virtualmedia Studios

System Info:
(Primary Development Box/Slave 1) Alienware Aurora ALX / Intel Core i7 960 (3.2GHz, 8MB Cache)
9GB Triple Channel 1333Mhz DDR3 / Single ATI Radeon HD 5970, 2GB GDDR5
1.2TB RAID 0 (2x 640GB SATA-II, 7,200 RPM, 16MB Cache HDDs)
Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit / Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio
(Devl Sys 2/Render Slave 2) Alienware M14xR2 / Windows 8 (64bit) SP0
Intel® Core™ i7-3630QM CPU @ 2.40GHz /6 Gb RAM /NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M
Hitachi HTS727550A9E364 7200 RPM 465.8 GB / Sound Blaster Recon3Di
(Render Farm Slaves 3-8 -- XP Prof SP2) (Devl Sys 1/Render Slave 1) Boxx 3200, Athlon 64X2 4800+, 3GB DDR400, Win7 64bit;
Dell/Dim8200/P4 2.53GHz/1Gb; 2xDell/Dim2350/Celeron
2GHz/1Gb; Dell/Oplex/2xP3 866MHz/1Gb; HP P3 800MHz/512Mb; eMachine P3 800MHz/512Mb




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