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#51 Darkwing

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:02 PM

So what is the best tool/way to reorganize the technical reference? I think anything that can have clear and interactive table of contents, categories, subcategories and a search feature would definitely be a requirement.

#52 robcat2075

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:07 PM

Anyone know how much that documentation tool that is not current cost?

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#53 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:11 PM

And to answer the who aspect of this, Simon and I have already volunteered, at least when it comes to collating the data. I personally have no ability to integrate anything with the program itself, but forum, wiki, book or whatever else we choose to collect all of this information is something I can (given oodles of time) do. (And I'm sure Simon can too, though I can't speak for him as maybe he does have the ability to do some of these things discussed)



Collating the data I may be able to do but, trying to read through a lot of that above puts my head in a whirl. I'm using V15 at the mo but hope to upgrade soon. If only so I can find out what AMA is and does ( small joke ).

I wonder if a standard format for entering the data might help. In the same way that foot notes in an academic paper are set out in a particular way each time ? I think that may highlight why the head spins...
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#54 NancyGormezano

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 02:45 PM

trying to read through a lot of that above puts my head in a whirl.


Join the club.

Tidbits: I am gathering that the information contained in the techref was spit out, in the same order, as traversing the project workspace, for some previous unknown to me version(s) of A:M.

It would be the same as starting from the top of the pws, right clicking on each entry and then documenting each of the choices/branches, in order, then popping up and traversing the next branch, documenting and augmenting information about the properties found in each branch, as they were encountered, and adding tuts, examples.

If the table of contents for the techref had some sort of indenting (sub chapters, sections, sub sections), similar to indicating the branch taken, it would be easier to figure out the what/where/why of this data dump for the user.

And when I look at the current AMA text file (in a text editor), and try to correlate it with properties, it is not obvious that one can create nor use any PWS name as an index name. I am gathering it must correlate to the program structure strictly. And any container currently in 17 that does not have a RMB choice of "display help for current property" is not available to be documented via AMA.

#55 robcat2075

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

Since the AMA can contain a link, I guess it isn't necessary that we synchronize the AMA text with the wiki text, but we would want to make sure every AMA entry includes a link to the wiki entry if there is one.

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#56 Fuchur

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 04:26 PM

<ama_entry>
<index_name>
Material Folder??
</index_name>
<property_name>
???
</property_name>
<auto_doc>
some copy/pasted text from techref, or wiki or new ???
</auto_doc>
<data_link>
link to wiki? techref? forum? video? porn site?
</data_link>
</ama_entry>


1)Not sure how you create the index name so that one can right click in A:M to get the description (or link), even manually.

2) Must it only be a property that gets described?

3) Do not know how one would either index into techref pdf (or does it exist in some other form?) or would we have to wait for a MASTER wiki that was generated from the techref first? And if this master wiki can be automatically generated from current incantation of techref, then can the ama textfile also be automatically generated at the same time? Not asking if someone can program it, because we know that is obviously possible if someone wanted to, I'm just asking what currently is possible?


1.) Let A:M do that for you. Just display the help content and use the edit functionality of it.
In the end it is something like the PWS-names behind each other.

2.) A property is (as far as I know) the only thing that can be described till now. If you write something else in, it will be ignored very likely but will do no harm.

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#57 Darkwing

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:15 PM

Since the AMA can contain a link, I guess it isn't necessary that we synchronize the AMA text with the wiki text, but we would want to make sure every AMA entry includes a link to the wiki entry if there is one.



This kinda brings a question about the wiki itself up. Do we control the wiki database file(s)? Cause if something ever happened to the wiki or we in years time moved on or something, would we be able to transplant that database instead of recreating all the entries? I also say this cause if we're linking in the AMA to an external site that isn't hosted on the AM server, that we don't have full access to the database and stuff, this would easily open up the possibility of link breakage.

#58 Rodney

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:30 PM

This kinda brings a question about the wiki itself up. Do we control the wiki database file(s)? Cause if something ever happened to the wiki or we in years time moved on or something, would we be able to transplant that database instead of recreating all the entries? I also say this cause if we're linking in the AMA to an external site that isn't hosted on the AM server, that we don't have full access to the database and stuff, this would easily open up the possibility of link breakage.


The current wiki is on a Hash Inc server. (Technically, it isn't actually their server like in bygone days. They pay a company to maintain the servers that hosts the wiki service. So, yeah... in that sense it's theirs.)
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#59 Darkwing

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:55 PM

ok, that's good to know! Cause if we were linking to something like a wikia wiki, where we have no control over the database and stuff, that could lead to problems down the road!

#60 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:26 PM

Head still spinning a bit here but, reading elsewhere about user groups. Might they be a good way to generate and verify the info needed and it could then be inserted in a standard format to a structure to be decided? simon
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#61 robcat2075

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:27 AM

If nothing else, we now know why the Techref isn't far better than it is... it's hard to decide what that would be and how to do it! :o

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#62 mouseman

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:38 AM

Since the AMA can contain a link, I guess it isn't necessary that we synchronize the AMA text with the wiki text, but we would want to make sure every AMA entry includes a link to the wiki entry if there is one.

I agree. That is the simplest thing. If the AMA were initialized with all possible links to the wiki pages (with reasonable names!), then if the page doesn't exist and the user has the right permissions, the wiki could say "This page doesn't exist. Click here to create it.".

The current wiki is on a Hash Inc server. (Technically, it isn't actually their server like in bygone days. They pay a company to maintain the servers that hosts the wiki service. So, yeah... in that sense it's theirs.)

This is probably splitting hairs, but ... From what Jason said here, I thought Jason still managed the systems from the operating system level down, but not the physical hardware. That might lead me to believe that it was probably on a virtual machine hosted by another company but still managed by Hash, Inc. But I may have misunderstood.

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#63 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:59 AM

Pardon me but, has this gone to sleep for a while as people chew it over or has a decision been reached ? I'm still happy to try to collate info if that is needed, not in a position to do any programming as I have nno knowledge or expeience of that whatsoever. regards simon
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#64 Darkwing

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:08 AM

I was kinda wondering that too a little :P Guess people are probably just mulling it over as it doesn't entirely strike me as anyone making a decision

#65 Rodney

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

<<< Going into stealth mode for more exploration>>>
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#66 Darkwing

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:22 PM

For the record, I've managed to find 3 different AM wikis from different points in time.

http://en.wikibooks....Master_Features
http://wiki.hash.com...nimation:Master
http://www.hash.com/faq/

Also, for options, I think I'll just lay them all out in point form that we've mentioned (or that I mighta thought about and forgot to post). This may or may not help, dunno, but there's no harm in posting them...I hope! :P

A Published Book
A PDF Book
The FAQ (which I think we've been commonly referring to the wiki)
The Wiki (the one that's broken)
The Forum
Wordpress (or similar type application)
HTML Website
Animation Master Answers


Now. Time to think outside the spline.

#67 Rodney

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:11 PM

I know you are just listing what you've seen so don't see this as a correction...

A Published Book
A PDF Book
The FAQ (which I think we've been commonly referring to the wiki)
The Wiki (the one that's broken)
The Forum
Wordpress (or similar type application)
HTML Website
Animation Master Answers


To break that down a little more so people can find them:

1 book by David Rogers (this has been updated several times... I don't have the third edition)
1 book by Jeff Paries (this also has had several editions)
2 PDF books by Hash Inc (ToaA:M and the Tech Ref are the primary two)

Note: This does not including a few book any foreign language books and manuals (I have a couple in Japanese... including one magazine that gave away a free Anime model on the accompanying CD) and have seen two others that I love to have but haven't been willing to pay for.

There are also some older books that have a variety of programs in them that include a chapter on Animation:Master. One even came with a demo of A:M.


There is at least one wiki that isn't on your list. I'm not sure if it was the most extensive of them all (graphically).

The one I'm thinking about was Matt Bradbury's second wiki (hosted by Hash Inc). The other wiki he had started is in your listing.
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#68 Darkwing

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

I hear 4 wikis, now going for 5! Do I hear 5 wikis? Anyone? No? Sold! To the purple monkey for 4 wikis!

#69 NancyGormezano

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

I hear 4 wikis, now going for 5! Do I hear 5 wikis? Anyone? No? Sold! To the purple monkey for 4 wikis!


And who can forget Holmes Bryant's noble attempt at a Tiddlywiki, found in a zip file in this post

I haven't looked at it for awhile and don't remember what's in it, nor what kind of state it's in.

So is that 4 or 5 wikis?

Seems like many wikis get started and not surprisingly, never finished. It's a big task.


And my absolute FAVORITE Tutorials done by Holmes Bryant on NEW features of A:M documented in pdf's with project files and tutorials are to be found here

Those pdfs contain a fair share of new info, features that are undocumented or outdated in the techref. The format of those pdfs are standardized, highly accurate and extremely well written. Very clear, great tuts.

Edited by NancyGormezano, 18 September 2012 - 04:06 PM.


#70 robcat2075

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:56 PM

So maybe a good venture would be to consolidate the wikis.

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#71 Darkwing

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:58 PM

I hear 4 wikis, now going for 5! Do I hear 5 wikis? Anyone? No? Sold! To the purple monkey for 4 wikis!


And who can forget Holmes Bryant's noble attempt at a Tiddlywiki, found in a zip file in this post

I haven't looked at it for awhile and don't remember what's in it, nor what kind of state it's in.

So is that 4 or 5 wikis?

Seems like many wikis get started and not surprisingly, never finished. It's a big task.


And my absolute FAVORITE Tutorials done by Holmes Bryant on NEW features of A:M documented in pdf's with project files and tutorials are to be found here

Those pdfs contain a fair share of new info, features that are undocumented or outdated in the techref. The format of those pdfs are standardized, highly accurate and extremely well written. Very clear, great tuts.



Excluding the tuts, that's 5 wikis!

So maybe a good venture would be to consolidate the wikis.


It just might be. You'd think we were newb internet users at the rate we create wikis...

#72 robcat2075

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:58 PM

Holme's Tiddlywiki was a quite complete account of Property Parameters and there are many AMA properties still not documented.

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