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#201 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:21 PM

Almost done with the  edit. Feedback received  suggested  one further scene was needed.Showing Bill arriving at the house  sometime after Doris on her bike. This is  the first half of that and an adaptation of one already used. The second half will be of him getting out of the car.

 

I hadn't  applied  any maps to make this figure older and am beginning to think I should.He's one of the nosey neighbours keeping track of everybody else.

 

Any critical feedback very welcome indeed,

simon

 

Attached File  Nosey .mov   24.03MB   13 downloads


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#202 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:08 AM

Some technical glitches and map alignments to sort out but, this is the whole scene.

But, does it read as a sequence. Is there any doubt about whats going on ?

 

Attached File  Nosey C.mov   5.91MB   11 downloads

 

The glitches included the sky layer no longer rendering, except as a series of black dots ?

and the constraints on the binoculars dropping out erratically and needing to be reset.

this in V17 under OSX

 

Hope to realign the maps then render out at 1080. Before finalising the whole thing.

Off on holiday in a few weeks so intend to re render the whole project at a consistent quality and while thats going through, do the sound. Anticipating the render taking several week  if not months. Will buy some  more network permits to speed it up. Some 720p renders  were taking 3 hours to do  on standard settings as there are a lot of reflective surfaces.


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#203 robcat2075

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:44 AM

Flashing sky looks like lightning.  :) 

 

I'm going to guess that some mistaken key frames are causing that.

 

I presume this is just a quick render and that's why there are no shadows.

 

 

The sequence makes sense.  Is that guy really supposed to have such wide hips?  From a distance I thought it was a female.

 

 

Some curve flattening would probably fix the sliding feet.


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#204 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:54 AM

Flashing sky looks like lightning.  :)

 

I'm going to guess that some mistaken key frames are causing that.

 

I presume this is just a quick render and that's why there are no shadows.

 

 

The sequence makes sense.  Is that guy really supposed to have such wide hips?  From a distance I thought it was a female.

 

 

Some curve flattening would probably fix the sliding feet.

Robert

Thank you for your reply and feedback.The flashing sky was an error caused by  the layer being turned on at the wrong time. The shadows ? I'm not at all sure about. Its not a quick render and shadows are turned on in the render panel but non are showing up I'm just about to have a look and see what might be causing that.

I hadn't noticed his hips before but someone else did mention it. I shall adjust them in a short while.

regards

simon


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#205 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 02:55 PM

Bill One 101.png

 

This was rendered using ambient occlusion, set at 75%

I really like the  look of the lighting but, the reflections in the window ,and parts of the sky layer, have got black specs, like dust on a negative, is there a way to avoid that and still keep the look of the ambient lighting ?

thank you

simon


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#206 robcat2075

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:59 PM

 

 

This was rendered using ambient occlusion, set at 75%

I really like the  look of the lighting but, the reflections in the window ,and parts of the sky layer, have got black specs, like dust on a negative, is there a way to avoid that and still keep the look of the ambient lighting ?

thank you

simon

 

You could do two renders.

 

One that does the AO right and one the that does the reflections right and composite them together.

 

For the AO render you could set all the reflecting surfaces to a solid pure color (100% ambience) and use that in your compositor to "green screen" in the portions from the reflection render.

 

Hand painting should not be necessary for this.

 

Of course, test that out with one frame before you re-render the whole sequence.

 

If the camera never moves, you'd only have to render one reflection frame.


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#207 Fuchur

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 12:04 AM

Try setting the ambient occlusion > Occlusion Sampling a little bit lower / higher and see what it does change.

 

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#208 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:39 AM

Robert, Gerald

Thank you for your helpful  suggestions, I shall try them out today.

While pondering over it last night, I stumbled across this, which isn't what I was  after but,I do like the look of and, it does add a  darker tone to the nosey neighbour thread.

regards

simon

 

Attached File  Bill A spot2.mov   12.04MB   12 downloads


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#209 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:09 AM

Had a few problems with consistency of renders, mapping, lighting and colour seemed to vary without warning  but, this is the final sequence before re rendering  the whole project and trying to get the sound done properly.

Any critical observations very welcome.

simon

 

Attached File  Nosey.mov   19MB   9 downloads


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#210 robcat2075

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 05:25 AM

I'm fairly certain the room lighting is changing because it has keyframes making it do that.

 

I preferred the version where he was silhouetted against the brighter room.

Are those motorcycle spoke reflective? It would be simpler to make them a regular color.

 

It's a bit odd that the scene seen directly is darker and grayer than when seen in teh binocular lenses.

 

The man getting out of the car seems to have lost all contrast on his face.

 

 

When I'm trying to run down lighting problems I find it easier to do half or quarter size renders and just a few frames per second.  That will usually catch things like drifing lights or other mistakes without having to wait for a full render.


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#211 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:24 AM

Robert

Thank you for your reply and help. Very much appreciated.

 

The spokes are just "render as lines" without any other  material setting. Think so, they were done about 12 months or so ago.

The lack of contrast in the figure seemed to be a consequence of the global AO settings, as it was done  without direct lighting. 

I quite like that look as its close to  how it looks in twilight after the sun has gone down, before it gets dark.

 

I had trouble with a lot of "noise" creeping in to the renders in the form of dark grains appearing on the sky maps and the garage door when doing the binocular lenses They were done with only single pass renders, multiple pass renders seemed to ease that.

 

I think the reflected light in the binocular lens looks brighter because of the contrast with the  darkness of the figure behind ? Its all part of the same scene, rendered with the same lighting conditions. Only the camera view changes. I will check it thoroughly when I do the final render.

 

I think the change in the mapping above the garage door  occurred because it was rendered with Multiple copies rather than Network  render and I accidentally tweeked a setting  somewhere. Likewise with the lighting in the room.

 

I liked the version with the lighter room but thought this worked better because of the darkness, making it slightly more intrusive spying by the    neighbour ?

 

I'm off on holiday next week and the intention is to set it all up on Network render and  redo the whole project to get more even results. The render times are  very long because of the AO and the reflection settings so, to redo the whole thing is going to take several weeks if not months.  Intend to use that time to re record the dialogue and do the sound FX.

 

One thing I do like about computers is that they can be working flat out while you're doing something else. Its started to feel like digital enslavement the past few weeks as I've tried to get the animation  and narrative sequence set. The first holiday in five years will be very welcome.

regards

simon


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#212 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:11 AM

Unfortunately illness got in the way of the holiday so its back to rendering.

 

Following some feedback on Facebook, I decided to try a split screen section. With the car arriving on the bottom half and the  neighbour with the binoculars on the top half. When his  part finishes,  it moves to a female neighbour watching, while having a cup of tea ( very english !),  as Bill gets out of the car.

 

What I was after is the tea drinker standing in the shadows watching, with the scene below of the car exit reflected in the window she is looking through. ( hope that makes sense ?) Haven't finalised the composition yet but, this was an attempt at the look.

 

Nosey E 101.png

 

As you can see, a lot of 'noise' crept into the render and I wonder if anyone can suggest a way to avoid that ?

 

It was done with AO lighting, no spotlights or key light, because I wanted that twilight look. I had  the same trouble when rendering the car arriving for the lower half, with the same sort of noise appearing on the garage door but, that seemed to go when I upped the sample level to 100%

 

The render time for 1080 was 8hours 30 mins for the frame, rendered with 5 passes. Don't mind the time so much, but the noise makes it unusable.

 

Tried a version using a key light and no AO,  this was the VGA result. Render time was about two minutes or less ! )

Nearer what  was wanted but, would prefer  a subtler blend of reflections.

 

Nosey F 110.png

 

 

Can anyone kindly suggest a cause, and a cure, for the noise problem ?

Thanks in advance.

simon


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#213 robcat2075

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:17 AM

I think it's a too-confusing arrangement of elements for the viewer to read what it is.  I'm looking at it and i can't figure out what is where.

 

 

So this is not a reflection scene?


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#214 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 11:39 AM

Robert

Thank you or your reply.

It is a reflection scene. She is inside a house looking out at the car arriving on the opposite side of the street. I think the confusion arrises from the side window  in the room she is standing in? You can see through that into next doors garden and  the reflections to the front.

I shall try a different composition

regards

simon


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#215 robcat2075

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 01:34 PM

I think the confusion arrises from the side window  in the room she is standing in? You can see through that into next doors garden and  the reflections to the front.

 

 

Yes.  I didn't even realize that was what I was seeing.


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#216 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:35 PM

This is the first  test of the idea for this scene.Hoping it will be the last scene but, it will take a lot of tinkering adjustments to get it to work properly, not least the  shapes, positioning and timing. I've only tried one multi screen before and that was a much simpler idea and scene.

Any critical feedback or suggestions, very welcome indeed.

simon

 

Attached File  Nosey Comp.mov   12.87MB   8 downloads


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#217 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 10:34 AM

Presently re rendering the files to get the right quality. Its taking some time.

Having trouble with some frames not rendering correctly.

 

Working with V17 under OSX10.85

 

I'm trying to follow through Roberts earlier  suggestion on how to get the toon render to fit seamlessly into a normal render.

Unfortunately  some glitches seem to crop up, seemingly at random.

NHF S3 055.png

 

As you can see, 'holes' are suddenly appearing in the render, were the alpha channel shows through rather than the surface of the model.

I've rendered it several times and the results are not consistent. Sometimes it happens on one frame, 055 above, and on other occassions it doesn't, but does on a different frame.The fault is not the same on every frame but varies in size and shape. sometimes multiple 'holes' sometime only one single gap.

 

The renders are done to .png format, could that be a reason.

Can anyone kindly point me to a solution as its getting very frustrating ?

thank you

simon

NHF S3 040.png

NHF S3 125.png

 

 


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#218 robcat2075

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 04:31 PM

I'm not sure what I'm looking at here. What is the white part?

 

Is there some reason you need an alpha channel in the finished render?

 

 

Unrelated... are you trying to use AO on this shot?


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#219 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:41 AM

I'm not sure what I'm looking at here. What is the white part?

 

Is there some reason you need an alpha channel in the finished render?

 

 

Unrelated... are you trying to use AO on this shot?

Robert

Thank You for your reply.

The white part is only showing up as white in the browser. On the original file its actually a hole in the render.

 

At first I thought it was some geometry that had been distorted. but, when opened in photoshop, the hole became apparent.

 

The annoying thing about it is that it is very inconsistent. Sometimes it happens and others not at all, even on the same frame, using all the same settings.

It is only  when viewing it as a sequence later that the problem shows up. Should add that, I don't monitor every frame as it goes through, only review afterwards when assembling the animation.

 

I was using an alpha channel previously as part of the compositing process.Its a carry on from that.

 

Yes. It was rendered with AO, set to the sample rate of 100%

Regards

SImon


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#220 robcat2075

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Posted 03 November 2017 - 05:29 PM

Something is wrong. Something is very wrong. I'd have to see the Project to know more.
 

 

 

Yes. It was rendered with AO, set to the sample rate of 100%


But you are getting no visible AO in that render.

 

Something is not set right.

 

Ambiant Occlusion in a shot like that should be absolutely, unmistakably visible, but it's not.

 

Something is not set right.

 

You're having long render times for AO with out getting AO.

 

Something is not set right.

 

I'd have to see the Project and the render settings saved in a Preset to know more.


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#221 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 04:50 AM

Robert

Thank you very much indeed for your reply and offer of help. Very much appreciated.

There were two, with everything embedded..

regards

simon

 

First one with  the figure all in Black normal scene

Attached File   NHF S3B 001.prj   4.74MB   2 downloads

 

 

Second with the scene in Black and the figure in Toon setting

Attached File   NHF S3T 001.prj   4.56MB   1 downloads

 

 


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#222 robcat2075

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:16 PM

Can you also save a "preset" of the render settings you are using?

 

Make your render settings and then press "Save as Preset"  (May just say "Save" on earlier versions) to save a .pre file

 

If you are using different render settings for each version save a preset for each.


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#223 robcat2075

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Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:45 PM

Explain to me again how these two work together.


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#224 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 08:38 AM

Robert

Thank you for your reply and your help, very much appreciated.

 

Here is the render settings used

Attached File  Scene Three.pre   5.46KB   1 downloads

 

That  setting has been  used for all the scenes rendered in the past few weeks. At least, I think so, it hasn't been consciously changed. The only difference has been the selection of Toon render when needed, all other settings stay the same.

 

The two projects are set to follow your suggestion of a few weeks back, I was trying to get a toon render to sit in the midst of a standard render without running into alignment problems or requiring editing in photoshop afterwards.

 

The first scene/project, blacks out the figure but leaves the rest as normal. That is then rendered with a standard setting.

 

The second scene/project, blacks out everything but the figure. That is then rendered with a Toon setting.

 

Both renders are then composited in After Effects using the "Add" option

regards

simon

 


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#225 robcat2075

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:40 AM

I've looked at this briefly and will look at it more.

 

One problem I notice is that the AO intensity is only 20% and it's getting drowned out by the level of the other light.

 

So you're paying for AO with long render times but not getting the AO look because the other lights are much stronger.

 

I will look at this more.


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#226 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 09 November 2017 - 05:12 AM

Robert.

Thank you very much indeed for your help. Very much appreciated.

regards

simon


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