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AM 19.0 D Crash at Render


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#1 ChuckGram

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 12:58 PM

Using Windows 10. Tried every output option like AVI, JPG and all others. Tried every setting as far uncompressed or choosing different codecs. Unisntalled, reinstalled both AM and different codec packs. Tried rendering old, new and even blank choreographies  Tried saving in different file folders in case of save issues. Nothing but crashes when I try to render. Has anyone got any ideas on how to fix this?



#2 itsjustme

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 01:21 PM

Can you post a simple project that crashes for others to test?

#3 Rodney

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 02:55 PM

Just to make sure it isn't interferring... try turning off 'Save before Render' in the Options (on the Rendering tab)
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#4 ChuckGram

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 07:16 PM

Can you post a simple project that crashes for others to test?

I'm just using the choreography that shows up when the program opens. No changes.


Just to make sure it isn't interferring... try turning off 'Save before Render' in the Options (on the Rendering tab)

Just tried that. Still crashed upon render.



#5 johnl3d

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 09:03 PM

I am using windows 10

 

try this project

 

Attached File  redball.prj   9.24KB   31 downloads

 

 

It does simple sphere  red in color


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#6 ChuckGram

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:21 AM

I am using windows 10

 

try this project

 

attachicon.gifredball.prj

 

 

It does simple sphere  red in color

Still crashes. I'm out of ideas as to what can be wrong.



#7 ChuckGram

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:01 AM

Here's something. When I uninstall, then reinstall, It will render 1 time, any project. After that, the crashes start.



#8 Rodney

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:47 PM

I've never heard of such a thing happening... you are exploring new territory.

This doesn't sound hardware related although it very well could be.

I'm curious if (after reinstall and render) you are attempting to render again without any changes or if you then change anything.

To narrow the problem down...
Try installing an early version.... say v18... and see if that behaves the same way.
You may need to copy and paste your master0.lic file over from your v19 directory.
Of course before you try v18 you could also try a different release of v19.

You should still have the previous version (v18) installed right?
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#9 itsjustme

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:35 PM

Could it be related to the recent Windows updates?

#10 Fuchur

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 04:32 AM

Possible, but actually I do not suffer from that. Just tried it at my computer and it worked as it should.

Could you go to your "Event Viewer" of windows and see what is happening there? Event Viewer (hopefully it is called that way in English Windows Versions) is a software where you can see the operation system logs. Not every entry is a problem, but there are notices, warnings and errors listed. Errors are the once we are interested in (red icon). Search for the time when the crash happend and have a look into the description to see what is going on there. Can you copy the information in there and put it in here? Since it seems to be a very specific problem to your computer, it may help. (it does not have too.. the information can be pretty generic)

 

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#11 ChuckGram

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:51 AM

I've never heard of such a thing happening... you are exploring new territory.

This doesn't sound hardware related although it very well could be.

I'm curious if (after reinstall and render) you are attempting to render again without any changes or if you then change anything.

To narrow the problem down...
Try installing an early version.... say v18... and see if that behaves the same way.
You may need to copy and paste your master0.lic file over from your v19 directory.
Of course before you try v18 you could also try a different release of v19.

You should still have the previous version (v18) installed right?

I noticed version 18 is gone. There was also a recent Windows update (a rather long one, too).  I notice when I reinstall version 18, it wants to save it to the version 19 folder. Should the version 19 folder be deleted or changed?


Could it be related to the recent Windows updates?

That's when all the fun began. :-)


Possible, but actually I do not suffer from that. Just tried it at my computer and it worked as it should.

Could you go to your "Event Viewer" of windows and see what is happening there? Event Viewer (hopefully it is called that way in English Windows Versions) is a software where you can see the operation system logs. Not every entry is a problem, but there are notices, warnings and errors listed. Errors are the once we are interested in (red icon). Search for the time when the crash happend and have a look into the description to see what is going on there. Can you copy the information in there and put it in here? Since it seems to be a very specific problem to your computer, it may help. (it does not have too.. the information can be pretty generic)

 

Best regards

*Fuchur*

That's a bit beyond my skill but I will give it a try if nothing else works.

 

I appreciate all the advice and help you guys are providing. Thank you!



#12 ChuckGram

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 08:04 AM

Does anyone have a direct link to a version 18? Every link I have found seems to actually be version 19. At least that's what it says when I try installing.



#13 Fuchur

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 10:35 AM

Here you should find the last v18-version available and in the "old"-folder you will find the older versions:

ftp://ftp.hash.com/pub/updates/windows/v18/

 

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#14 ChuckGram

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 03:55 PM

Here you should find the last v18-version available and in the "old"-folder you will find the older versions:

ftp://ftp.hash.com/pub/updates/windows/v18/

 

 

Thanks for the link. Unistalled 19 then installed 18. Tried it, ran it and it crashes as well. Tried all the things we mentioned preciously with it too.

 

As mentioned, I received a Windows update just before all this. I own a Dell.



#15 johnl3d

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 09:48 PM

I had the large windows update a couple of weeks ago and had no issues with 19 d  or any earlier version  

 

 

I am running Windoows 10 home 64-bit with amd athlon 64x2 dual core processor 5200+ 2.7 GZ with 8Gb ram


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#16 ChuckGram

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 06:39 AM

Third reinstallation worked! I believe Fucher's suggestion on that link for version 18 made the difference, as what I found posted was actually version 19. Thank you all so much for the help. Can't wait to get back to Hashing!



#17 ChuckGram

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:11 AM

Now I'm back to square 1. It's crashing on render again. I was able to render 2 standard .jpg's but then the trouble started when I tried making an .avi. Now it won't even render a jpg. I'm going to try adding every codec pack I can find and see if that works.



#18 Fuchur

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

Hm, something very strange is going on there with your computer... that kind of unconsisting behaviour is very uncomon...

If you are online right now, send me PM... maybe we can figure it out together...

 

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#19 ChuckGram

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:50 PM

Hm, something very strange is going on there with your computer... that kind of unconsisting behaviour is very uncomon...

If you are online right now, send me PM... maybe we can figure it out together...

 

Best regards

*Fuchur*

Hey, thanks again, Fucher. I'm noticing I have now file association problems popping up. Even .jpgs aren't being recognized. McCaffy didn't catch anything nor did Malwarebytes  I'm going to try completely reformatting. Will post the results soon.



#20 ChuckGram

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:17 AM

I reinstalled Windows 10 and so far, so good. Woll keep you all posted and thanks again, everyone!



#21 ChuckGram

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:46 AM

Version 19. D is crashing again. I've rendered one step at a time without changing the opening set up as seen below. I rendered a standard .Jpg, no problem. Made a 1 sec video, uncompressed, no problem. This time, the crashes began when I tried a video in toon render. What is really strange is that now the program will crash no matter what format I try to render to. Thinking about buying an entirely new PC at this point even though this one is fairly new.

Attached Thumbnails

  • test A0.jpg


#22 robcat2075

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

I'm disappointed this is not working more smoothly for you. If AVI is the trouble I'd skip it entirely and compile rendered image sequences in another app.

BTW do you know how to resave an image sequence to an AVI while in A:M? I'd try that and see if you still get a crash.


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#23 Rodney

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

Yes, this is really strange stuff.

 

Which probably means the answer to the problem is easy.

Too bad we can't find it.

 

:(

 

Chuck,

If you want to do a Team Viewer session or Skype, Google Groups chat or somesuch seeing you walk through the process might not help... but then again it might.


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#24 Rodney

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 12:41 PM

You might have stated this and I just missed it.

 

You say in several places that A:M crashes  'upon' render, 'on' render and the like but you don't explicitly state if that is immediately upon render or after the program appears to have had time to think or start a render.

That may not sound important but there is something very odd about the specific timing of that crash and the fact that it is occuring only with AVIs and only at that specific time.

If we can narrow down that specific element I think we'll have a fix.

 

I am currently thinking it is a specific codec settings... but I think you mentioned you changed that.

The other side of that equation is to remember there are two places you need to consider changing to eliminate a persistent error.  In the camera settings and in the render dialog.

In the render dialog you can set that to 'Use this dialog' or 'Use camera'.   To narrow down the suspects I will recommend making sure that is set to 'Use this dialog;  That should (at least in theory) eliminate any an all settings and potential abnormalities caused by a camera.

 

But the isolation of this problem to specifically the AVI format is a clue we need to follow.

This again leads me to consider the compression setting.

You should set that to 'Full frames - uncompressed'.

 

Change those settings (Render this dialog and Full Frames uncompressed) and then test the results.


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#25 robcat2075

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:02 PM

Have you done Help>Reset Settings?


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#26 ChuckGram

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:32 PM

Have you done Help>Reset Settings?

Yep, tried that, reinstalling both versions 18 & 19 and reinstalling Windows 10.



#27 Vong

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:53 PM

While you all are thinking that it might be a software problem, there is a chance that the problem lies in system memory.

 

Chuck says that the system is "fairly new", but what does that mean exactly? 1, 2, 6, 9 months old? If possible, re-seating the RAM might fix the issue (as long as that won't void any warranty). It could be that a stick of RAM is starting to fail and that A:M is attempting to load portions of the render into that section of RAM, thus the crash.

 

I can't say for sure that it is a RAM oriented problem, but if you're still crashing after a format and reinstall of the OS, then it sounds like a hardware problem to me.



#28 ChuckGram

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

While you all are thinking that it might be a software problem, there is a chance that the problem lies in system memory.

 

Chuck says that the system is "fairly new", but what does that mean exactly? 1, 2, 6, 9 months old? If possible, re-seating the RAM might fix the issue (as long as that won't void any warranty). It could be that a stick of RAM is starting to fail and that A:M is attempting to load portions of the render into that section of RAM, thus the crash.

 

I can't say for sure that it is a RAM oriented problem, but if you're still crashing after a format and reinstall of the OS, then it sounds like a hardware problem to me.

I'm going to look into that next. Very much appreciated, Curtis!



#29 ChuckGram

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 03:44 PM

Okay, I reset everything back to the factory settings. a 100% reformatting. I installed Windows 10 and ONLY hash animation Versions 18p and 19d. Everything seemed to be working till it tried Toon render with falloff. Now the program crashes at rendering no matter the settings. I hope this narrows it down.



#30 Rodney

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:17 PM

I hope this narrows it down.

 

Quite the opposite

 

Having no pattern in the crashing is a pattern in and of itself but... this is a very odd one indeed.

As has been suggested, the common thing at this point seems to be that you haven't changed any hardware.  But a hardware problem doesn't seem right to me.

(Be careful with that BTW because changing hardware while testing could theoretically invalidate your access to A:M entirely).

 

Let's see... what else have we not tried.

Hmmmm.... Double check the available space on the drive you are rendering to...

...and... make sure it isn't a read only drive...

(and... make sure you installed the 64bit release of A:M and not (or in addition to) the 32bit release.... shouldn't make a difference but the 64bit release will access more RAM).


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#31 Rodney

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 05:29 PM

If I try to render to a AVI with some various codecs (other than Full Frames -Uncompressed) I can crash A:M as it begins to render every time.

It does get a little ways into the process but throws an error pretty quickly.

 

Double/Triple check to make sure under AVI with the button labeled 'Set' that setting is 'Full Frames - Uncompressed'.

 

 

(In the screenshot you can also see I'm trying to render to the v19 installation directory... which A:M sometimes default to.... never a good idea!)

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#32 itsjustme

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 10:24 PM

Have you checked for errors on your hard drive?  I had a hard drive that had errors affecting the Windows cache that caused me some headaches years ago.



#33 ChuckGram

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 06:49 AM

Well, gentlemen, I checked the folder settings and that's not the problem. There hasn't been any new hardware added. Both AM verions (18 & 19) are the 64 bit release. I am only attempting to render in uncompressed and the crash occurs no matter what folder I try to sace to. Mind you, I'm still trying to render the default coriography with no models imported. I did scan the hard drive for errors but none were found.



#34 Fuchur

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 07:25 AM

Now it would be time to check your memory... the problem with that is, that it can be a little bit more techy then you might want it to be ;).

https://www.memtest86.com/


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#35 ChuckGram

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:20 AM

I'm deffinately on to something now. I reinstalled, and ran several successful renders. I changed one setting at a time and eventually got to my usual "Toon Render with falloff". It rendered without a catch till I tried adjusting the slider bars as shown, then the crashes bagan. I'm certian this is causing the crashes.

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#36 ChuckGram

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:39 AM

VERIFIED: The slider bars are the cause of the crashes. I deleted the sliders and rendering works.



#37 Fuchur

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:58 AM

Very cool catch, I wrote a bug report :).

Properply noone else did try exactly that. When I'm at home, I'll check on that to verify it.

 

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#38 ChuckGram

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:07 AM

Very cool catch, I wrote a bug report :).

Properply noone else did try exactly that. When I'm at home, I'll check on that to verify it.

 

Best regards

*Fuchur*

Thanks again for the help and reporting the bug. I'm certian they will figure the rest out. Hash on, my firends!



#39 ChuckGram

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 09:21 AM

Another thing that is probably related, when toon rendering, there are now extremely harsh shadows when using a kleig as a main light source. The shadows remain 100% dark and sharp no matter how you adjust the kleig properties.



#40 robcat2075

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 12:40 PM

Sliders!

At least you don't have to go buy new memory.


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#41 Rodney

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 05:16 PM

Sliders!

At least you don't have to go buy new memory.

 

Figures... we checked every friggin' thing in the world except sliders.  ;)


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#42 ChuckGram

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 05:35 AM

Unfortunately I have no other option other than to purchase a new computer. Are any of you having these problems with these crashes? Also, has anyone noticed odd shadows when using a klieg as a main light source?



#43 robcat2075

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 07:14 AM

Unfortunately I have no other option other than to purchase a new computer. Are any of you having these problems with these crashes? Also, has anyone noticed odd shadows when using a klieg as a main light source?

 

I thought you ascertained that this was an A:M bug, no?

 

 

Also, has anyone noticed odd shadows when using a klieg as a main light source?

 

 

We really need to see an example.


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#44 ChuckGram

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:41 AM

 

Unfortunately I have no other option other than to purchase a new computer. Are any of you having these problems with these crashes? Also, has anyone noticed odd shadows when using a klieg as a main light source?

 

I thought you ascertained that this was an A:M bug, no?

 

 

Also, has anyone noticed odd shadows when using a klieg as a main light source?

 

 

We really need to see an example.

 

   There is so much going on here, it's difficult to explain. I recently discovered that part of the problem is part of the Windows 10 update. As Rondey mentioned, the folders that you are saving to must not be set to "read only". After turning that setting off, they immediately set back to read only. This has something to do with the Cloud (which I don't even want). You can turn off Cloud but the problem still persists. The Windows update makes it so Cloud can't be removed. I've been looking around and there are many people having problems with this and quite a number of class action lawsuits going on because of it. 

 

  I discovered I can render files directly to my desktop and move them to other folders. As far as the shading problems, I have a feeling it directed towards the Cloud as well. 



#45 Fuchur

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 06:56 AM

Very strange... I am running Windows 10 on about 25 computers without such a problem, but I am sure you are having a special usecase there... I just deactivated OneDrive here and that was it...

No other problems with any kind of crashes, etc here. But as I said before: It might be a very specific problem.

 

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#46 ChuckGram

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:16 AM

I apologize for the long running thread. I still can't figure out what is going on with the shadows. This is a simple 8 patch sphere in the basic choreography window. The lighting is set as: Light settings - Spot = 90%
Fill = 12%
Key = 0%

I cannot get rid of the harsh shadow cast by the sphere. Have a look at the setting for the spot light.

 

I checked my old choreographies going back several years. The problem shows up in them as well now. Is it possibly a problem with my graphics card?

 

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  • A.jpg
  • D.jpg


#47 ChuckGram

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:52 AM

Still can't get a soft shadow against a surface, no matter what settings I use on a kleig. Does anyone have an idea what may be wrong?



#48 Rodney

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 07:17 AM

We'll need to have some test files in order to dig more deeply into the troubleshooting.

It'd be good if you can also save your render settings as a prefix file and share that as well.


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