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#1 itsjustme

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 04:40 AM

It's been over a week since my last Bertram post, so I figured I had better post so that this section didn't appear dead. I'll pin this thread so that it will be easy to take a quick look to see what I'm bashing against my skull at that moment. What I've been doing is updating the biped Squetch Rig installation rigs, working on a possible add-on for the rig, started the Squetch Rig installation tutorial and started modeling a prop. Since most of those things are inter-related, they will probably all get finished at the same time...I'm using Bertram's rig installation to troubleshoot the rig and add-on, and as the model for the tutorial. Sorry for the delay on the things I'm going to release.

#2 Jeetman

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 05:22 AM

It's been over a week since my last Bertram post, so I figured I had better post so that this section didn't appear dead. I'll pin this thread so that it will be easy to take a quick look to see what I'm bashing against my skull at that moment.

What I've been doing is updating the biped Squetch Rig installation rigs, working on a possible add-on for the rig, started the Squetch Rig installation tutorial and started modeling a prop.

Since most of those things are inter-related, they will probably all get finished at the same time...I'm using Bertram's rig installation to troubleshoot the rig and add-on, and as the model for the tutorial.

Sorry for the delay on the things I'm going to release.


David,

I can't wait till you and Mark create the "instant" rig. One push of a button postitions bones, attaches and weights cp's and deletes install bones. It works on bipeds, tripeds, quadpeds, and any peds :lol:

I can dream can't I?

As I said in Mark's post, I'm very grateful that you dedicate your personal time to work on the rigging part of AM. Without guys/gals like you, animation would be near impossible and incredibly hard to do.

Thank you for all you do David and keep up the excellent work you've been doing.

George
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#3 Kamikaze

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 07:16 AM

Well said George, that rigging and human modeling too, are just so time consuming it is way beyond my time constraints so these riggs and the such come in so handy when needed. Just another dept I can never repay, so thanks to all of you who like David and Mark making things easier for other, mush appreciated.
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#4 mtpeak2

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 01:37 PM

Quite interested in what you got going David. Possible add-on?
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#5 itsjustme

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 02:55 PM

David,

I can't wait till you and Mark create the "instant" rig. One push of a button postitions bones, attaches and weights cp's and deletes install bones. It works on bipeds, tripeds, quadpeds, and any peds :lol:

I can dream can't I?


LOL! I've got the same dream, George. I don't think it will ever get that easy, but it can always improve.

As I said in Mark's post, I'm very grateful that you dedicate your personal time to work on the rigging part of AM. Without guys/gals like you, animation would be near impossible and incredibly hard to do.

Thank you for all you do David and keep up the excellent work you've been doing.


Thanks, George.


Well said George, that rigging and human modeling too, are just so time consuming it is way beyond my time constraints so these riggs and the such come in so handy when needed. Just another dept I can never repay, so thanks to all of you who like David and Mark making things easier for other, mush appreciated.


Not a problem, Mike. Your testing and input on the things we're building are payment, it helps us a lot.


Quite interested in what you got going David. Possible add-on?


Yessir, I've got a thing I'm putting together for Bertram's gut and "love handles" that could be an add-on. It's got a few areas that I need to adjust (that's what I'm going to work on tonight), but I should be sending you something to critique soon. I'll also send you the updated installation rigs for review.

#6 mtpeak2

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Posted 13 August 2008 - 03:10 PM

Cool, I'll be waiting for it.
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#7 itsjustme

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 06:00 AM

Just a quick update on my progress. I spent a couple of days going over the Squetch Rig installations and fixed a few things...mostly in the four fingered version. There were a couple of Poses that were duplicated, the "z_right/left_toes_IK_pointer" bones needed to have the "z_" added to the name in the four fingered version, I changed the default euler limit on the negative side of the 'X' limit for the calves and forearms to "-10" (since that is going to be pretty common anyway), fixed the manipulator limits for elbow and knee controllers (a couple of them were showing all rotations instead of only the ones needed), added more movement to the installation Poses in the spine, added more scaling to the jaw installation Pose, added some 'Z' rotation Poses to the installation of the fingers and tightened up the bone positioning in the arms and legs to reduce errors (that's what took the most time). Once I get through a complete installation to find anything else that may need tweaking and have Mark go over the changes, I'll get the next release of the biped Squetch Rig posted. Then, I installed the four fingered biped rig into Bertram so that I can do better testing of the gut add-on that I want to put in. I'm in the middle of doing the CP Weighting on the body...I'm going to hold off on the face until I get the gut worked out, send that to Mark for review, then go back and finish the installation tutorial I started. It has taken some time, but I think it was necessary. ---------------------------------- EDIT ---------------------------------- I forgot to mention that the "z_right/left_toes_IK_pointer" bones renaming was in the "right/left_leg_FK_IK" Poses.

#8 itsjustme

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 06:10 AM

I've been doing a lot of testing on the possible gut rig, re-rigged the legs on Bertram and did a lot of CP Weighting the past few days. I've also put some rotate manipulator limits on the toe and heel controls in the Squetch Rig...I know, that's a minor thing, but I figured I would mention it while I'm at it. I should be able to get a lot done this weekend.

#9 Jeetman

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:07 AM

David, how'd the weekend go? Were you able to work on your project and if so, how's it going? George
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#10 itsjustme

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 01:55 PM

David, how'd the weekend go? Were you able to work on your project and if so, how's it going?

George


Unfortunately, I didn't get the free time I thought I would, so I didn't get as much done as I had hoped, George. I did some CP Weighting on the most recent installation of the legs and that's about it. I think the gut rig is close, there's one thing I still need to add to it...I need to finish the CP Weighting to do more testing.

The leg installation is a place that I needed to do some experimenting on the bone placement, so that's what I'm going through. Normally, it would be just about finding the center of the hips, but Bertram's design isn't like most characters. Initially, I estimated too high for the origin of the thighs, so I lowered that and am redoing everything accordingly. The gut rig is set to raise the lower part of the gut on each side (it's adjustable) as the knees are raised, which affects how the CP Weighting needs to be done.

I should have some time to work late tonight...I realize this has been taking way too long.

#11 itsjustme

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 03:25 AM

I added more splineage to Bertram's legs, I was a little too frugal when I modeled him initially. I'm hoping to get the gut rig to Mark in a day or two. I had to spend a couple of days getting the Posable Quad Squetch Rig updated and knocked together a Posable six legged Squetch Rig. Mark is going to be installing them in SO characters (I believe a frog and a grasshopper), so if that goes well we will release them as soon as we're pretty sure we've found any potential problems. We've had the Posable Quad Rig on a back burner for quite a while, it'll feel good to get that out.

#12 mtpeak2

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 05:28 PM

I'm fixing issues and changing things with the quad installation rig as I go, so hopefully I'll get all the potential problems ironed out when I'm done.
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#13 itsjustme

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 04:34 AM

I spent a couple more days knocking around the Quad and Six Leg rigs, typed up the installation instructions and put together the Six Leg add-ons...it took a little longer than I initially thought it would. Mark is still shaking things down in the Quad and Six Leg rigs while doing the two installations on his plate, I'm now back to the gut rig add-on and then the biped rig while doing Bertram's installation and installation tutorial. A lot of things are going to be finished at the same time.

#14 itsjustme

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:24 AM

My spare time has been at a minimum for the past couple of weeks, sorry to be taking so long. I did get some time today to put in some controls for Bertram's pockets...he's going to have to be able to put his hands in them. Here are a couple of quick test clips showing how the pockets move with the legs and how the controls work. There are three fan bones with their bases anchored to the same nulls that anchor the legs, those bones have the inner and outer pocket bones as children and the CP Weighting is split up between them to get decent movement. It might need more tweaking of the weighting before it's finally finished. The next little addition that I need to mess with is a setup for the belt buckle, then I can get back to the gut add-on...I wanted to have the lower half of Bertram's body worked out first.

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#15 Rodney

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 07:11 AM

Pocket rig? You sure are meticulous David! I'd say that's a successful test. :)
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#16 itsjustme

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 02:23 PM

Pocket rig? You sure are meticulous David!
I'd say that's a successful test. :)


LOL! In Bertram's case, I really wanted functional pockets. 99.99% of the time, pockets aren't an issue...I can't remember a 3D character off the top of my head that actually used their pockets. I didn't want things to just magically appear in his hand or have him go into his pockets slightly off-camera to cheat the shot.

I could have done the same sort of thing using Smartskin, but it would have taken longer to set up and I wouldn't have the bones to use as handles to open and close the pockets.

#17 martin

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 05:32 PM

Very interesting... When I watched those pocket gymnastics, it got me thinking about complex rigs that need to be transitory, (turn on only when needed so that they offer no clutter and take no processing time).
Let's make movies!

#18 itsjustme

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Posted 18 September 2008 - 08:52 PM

Very interesting...

When I watched those pocket gymnastics, it got me thinking about complex rigs that need to be transitory, (turn on only when needed so that they offer no clutter and take no processing time).


It would definitely speed up the response on extremely complex rigs.

#19 mtpeak2

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 12:44 PM

Working on anything new? Have you finished the gut rig yet?
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#20 itsjustme

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 01:24 PM

Working on anything new? Have you finished the gut rig yet?


I returned to my normal work schedule a few days ago after three weeks with no time off from my job...I haven't had any free time, unfortunately. I started looking at the gut rig again last night and have done some revising.

Sorry for the lack of updates, I'm going to have more time now, so I should get a lot done soon.

#21 itsjustme

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 03:54 AM

I've gotten the gut portion of the gut rig worked out, but I'm still working on the love handle portion. Hopefully, I'll get that worked out tonight so that I can show an example video. Sorry for taking so long to post, I wanted to have a decent visual...I'm not that far away from one, I think.

#22 mtpeak2

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 04:06 PM

Looking forward to it.
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#23 itsjustme

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 09:59 PM

I'm still tinkering with it, but I figured I should show where I'm at with the gut rig. Here is a quick clip showing how it presently works...there are still a few things that I need to do further testing on and some CP Weighting needs fixing.

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#24 martin

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 10:26 PM

Hahahahahahehehe... (That stomach is great!)
Let's make movies!

#25 Rodney

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 12:24 AM

I thought Martin was just exaggerating. He wasn't. That is great. Some of those poses immediately made me think of Hanna Barbera. Not sure why but no doubt the design element that you maintain throughout the changes. (Thats a good thing BTW) Very nice.
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#26 steve392

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 04:22 AM

Ha ha Yea thats a hellova controlable belly you got there ,who ate all the pies who ate all the pies ,that f--- b--- he ate all the pies lol great stuff David
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#27 mtpeak2

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 05:18 AM

That's pretty cool David. Looking forward to seeing how it's set up. How does it work when you rotate the chest or hips on the Z axis?
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#28 itsjustme

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 05:25 AM

Thanks, guys. I've still got a few things to tweak...I also want to make sure it doesn't break too easily. You're going to laugh when you see what's driving it, Mark...it's very simple. I originally started with a lot more complex setup and then figured out I didn't need most of it. I'm hoping to get it in a condition to send you an example in the next couple of days...I need to reassure myself about a few movements.

#29 itsjustme

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 05:37 AM

How does it work when you rotate the chest or hips on the Z axis?


It appears to work alright, but that's the movement that I need to reassure myself about. I need to finish the CP Weighting on the upper torso to be sure that everything will work as well as I think it will.

#30 agep

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 12:57 PM

LOL! That was great! The stuff you and Mark achieve with rigging has always impressed me a lot. I have always struggled when it comes to rigging..
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#31 strohbehn

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 04:46 PM

I'm still tinkering with it, but I figured I should show where I'm at with the gut rig. Here is a quick clip showing how it presently works...there are still a few things that I need to do further testing on and some CP Weighting needs fixing.

Hey David, that's really impressive! Excellent work.... as always.

#32 itsjustme

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 05:39 AM

Thanks guys. I found a minor thing in the rig to fix this evening while working on Bertram's arm weighting...not a big thing, but worth a quick mention if anyone wants to update an existing installation. The biceps should slightly flex when the wrists are rotated, the parenting on a couple of bones/nulls need to be changed for it to work properly. The "right/left_bicep_muscle_target_limiter", "right/left_bicep_muscle_limit_target", "right/left_bicep_muscle_target_limiter_base" should be children of the "right/left_bicep_muscle_base" bone. I'm going to finish up the arm and upper torso weighting tomorrow and should have another test clip if I don't run into anything else.

#33 itsjustme

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 05:47 AM

I found out during the arm rigging that I needed to make some modeling adjustments to the biceps and shoulders...I also re-did the rigging for them. I should have done more checking before this point, but I think it's better now. Hopefully, I'll have a test clip tomorrow...unless I run into something else, again.

#34 itsjustme

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 04:34 AM

I found another minor thing in the rig to fix...once again, it was a parenting issue, so it was easy to fix. The "right/left_bicep_flexor" should be a child of the "right/left_bicep_base". The problem showed up when the shoulder was moved, it caused the biceps to flex slightly. Re-parenting the "right/left_bicep_flexor" should fix the problem on any previously installed biped rig. On Bertram, I added more of an arm under the shirt sleeve (I might eventually use it if he ever has to pull the sleeves up), fixed the bone parenting and then weighted the arm itself...the sleeve will be quick to weight since that is done. I've been working my way up the arm so that I can get the upper torso weighted, which should be what I work on tomorrow night. Here is a quick video test of the arm weighting...it's not great animation, but it's just a test.

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#35 mtpeak2

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:07 AM

Looks pretty good David.
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#36 Rodney

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 03:01 PM

Talk about your squetchable character! One word came to mind while viewing your latest animation: 'soft'. I don't often equate that word with CG characters (or their arms). Looks like success to me. If it matters... the second word I thought of was 'pudgy'. ;)
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#37 TheSpleen

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Posted 25 October 2008 - 07:15 PM

Incredible to say the least!
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#38 frosteternal

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 01:51 AM

Gorgeous rigging. The belly is almost a character itself.
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#39 itsjustme

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:51 PM

It's been a while since I've posted anything, so I think I should mention what I'm messing with. The shoulder area of Bertram bothered me, so I've changed it some...which caused me to change the arms some. This got me doing a bunch of experiments that made me try some things that I wouldn't normally do on a standard biped...Bertram is pretty non-standard in a few areas and now the arms are looking like they might end up unconventional as well. I'm thinking I might have something to show in the next couple of days...sorry for taking so much time on this.

#40 TheSpleen

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:33 PM

Can't wait to see it. :)
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#41 itsjustme

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 06:04 AM

I added more geometry bones in the arms to make setting up the arm twisting and limb bowing easier and a second elbow fan bone to help maintain volume on a chunky character...I'm going to add them to the Squetch Rig tomorrow, I'm out of time today. I've also got an idea to improve the limb bowing that I'm going to try. I have the arms on Bertram pretty much set up, but I still have to weight the shirt sleeves. I went with a much longer bicep bone than I did initially in order to have enough room to get the shoulder the way it needed to be. I should be able to render out an example tomorrow to illustrate.

#42 Gerry

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 07:36 AM

This is my first visit to this thread. It's all looking just great, David!
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#43 itsjustme

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:12 AM

I've updated the installation rigs and I only have a couple of little things left to get Squetchy Sam updated. I didn't get to try the experiment I want to do yet, I'll have to wait until tomorrow...I've run out of time today. Bertram's arms are presently in an unusual state...I'm still debating whether they will remain this way. What I want to do is to keep the arms chunky/muscled and not make them so long that he can drag his knuckles on the ground, but be able to get things out of his pockets without too much trouble. In this quick test, his bicep is much longer than the forearm...normally, the bicep and forearm are the same length. I need to do some more testing before I can make a decision on whether to lengthen the forearm. This version of Bertram has the second elbow fan bone and additional geometry bones that I've been adding to the rig. I still need to do some tweaking, so I'm only showing enough to give everyone a visual of my internal debate. Looking at this clip, I need to tweak the hand clench pose to make the back of the hand look less flat as well.

Attached Files



#44 martin

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:44 AM

Impressive.
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#45 Jeetman

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:21 AM

This is excellent for flexing while bending, but is there an option to just bend without flexing. Realistic muscle movement is very hard to re-create in a model I've found because of the interactions between the muscles while bending or just in a static contraction. Just for fun, I wanted to see if I could model Bruce Lee's forearm muscle and make it go from relaxed to flexed with a pose slider. After looking at the complexity of muscles in his once well developed forearm, I realized it was way above my modeling and rigging abilites. George
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#46 itsjustme

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 05:18 PM

This is excellent for flexing while bending, but is there an option to just bend without flexing. Realistic muscle movement is very hard to re-create in a model I've found because of the interactions between the muscles while bending or just in a static contraction.

Just for fun, I wanted to see if I could model Bruce Lee's forearm muscle and make it go from relaxed to flexed with a pose slider. After looking at the complexity of muscles in his once well developed forearm, I realized it was way above my modeling and rigging abilites.

George


You can adjust the amount of flex in the bicep in the rig, George. In Bertram the flex is set at 100%, but if you turned it down to 0%, it wouldn't flex at all. If you want to do a static contraction of the bicep, you could use the squetch nulls.

If you want to do absolutely realistic muscle deformation, the character would have to be a lot more detailed than Bertram and would require some more rigging and careful Smartskinning. I'm looking to do a more toon-like character with Bertram, so "cartoon real" is my goal.

#47 Rodney

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Posted 21 November 2008 - 06:07 PM

Looking good David. Nice fluid movement.

I'm looking to do a more toon-like character with Bertram, so "cartoon real" is the my goal.


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#48 itsjustme

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Posted 22 November 2008 - 06:30 AM

I finished updating Squetchy Sam and then tried the experiment I wanted to do for the limb bowing. The experiment worked, but I decided it wasn't a necessary addition. I don't remember if I've done this particular experiment before or not...maybe I did and don't remember it. Here's a quick Project with a simple version of the added elbow fan bone. It helps to maintain volume on the inner part of the elbow. It has probably been done since it is so simple, but it might help someone.

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#49 itsjustme

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 06:27 AM

I did some work on the sleeves for Bertram. Initially, I just used CP Weighting, but I wasn't completely happy with the results. I decided to do some testing with cloth to see if I could do a little better using that. Since I built the arms under the sleeves, I already had a deflector for the cloth. This is just a very quick "proof of concept" which makes me think that's the way I'll be going...I still have a lot of testing and adjusting to do on it. I'll post a better test when I get more done.

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#50 Dagooos

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 07:29 AM

Wow...This will be interesting to see if you can get cloth to work well on the sleeves. What you have so far looks good. You rock !
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