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#1 dborruso

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:37 AM

We are pleased to announce the opening of The 3dfrog Store, a place to buy and sell Animation Master Models.

www.3dfrogstore.com

We are a small team of A:M artists starting up this store. We are me, Waheed Sami Ali (Jin Kazama), and Robert Harris (Darklimit).

Please check out our site. See the seller info link for information on selling on our site. We hope you guys submit lots of models :).

We will be advertising the store when we have enough models submitted and have a little more funds. We will use google pay per click advertising to start. If it takes off we will grow from there.

We realize there have been other shops in the past that have tried this and failed. We are doing this for the love of A:M and interest in running the store though so we hope to be around a long while. Even if we don't turn a profit anytime soon just running the store will be a success for us. The success of this is up to you users so please be active in our store.

Please post any ideas and suggestions for the store, we would love to hear them. You can use our store forum at the site too.

I will be at the NY A:M users group today. I will answer any questions tonight when I get back.

Thanks folks!
Dennis Borruso

#2 Dhar

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:26 AM

This is definitely a worthwhile endeavor. Best of luck to you all. I added you to my favs to check it out from time to time. I like the layout and design, but what's this "Please Choose - Digital Download - " with the shipping button always on? That's confusing.
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#3 Krazyman

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 01:05 PM

Quality is the keyword... Look at Huntress and Euisung lee's T-Rex, I've got the T-Rex, but Dinosaurs and women are a good bet. Make something as good as Huntress, with realistic hands and feet and I'll be first in line. Also a good line in clothing for characters wouldn't go amiss, conforming clothing... no empty spaces where the characters body should be under the clothing. You could have full outfits, using transparency to hide the clothing that isn't in view. Photorealistic body textures for characters would be good, also standardising some characters would be big help in clothing them. Beginners can make the simple stuff, its the quality stuff, like in the 'Tin Woodsman' that eludes beginners to AM like me... (I'm getting better...) ;) I hope you do well, as I love Animation Master, and more stuff to play around with equals more fun...
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#4 Kamikaze

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 02:32 PM

I'll be checking it out now and then, thanks for posting... Mike
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#5 dborruso

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 03:02 PM

Thanks for the support Dhar. Yeah that shipping thing is stupid. The store software displays attributes you put on the product. It is really unnecessary. I will find if there is a way to disable it. Thanks for the feedback krazyman. Points well taken. We hope to reach the level of quality of the huntress in time. Hopefully artists of that quality will submit items for sale. I think we give a nice deal to artists to handle all sales and take only 20% of the sale. Other sites that sell models the company takes 50%. I like the idea of having textures on the site too. I may add a category for that. Thanks for checking it out kamikaze.
Dennis Borruso

#6 Rodney

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 06:03 PM

What's that old saying, "With a name like 3DFrog its gotta be good." :D Hope you see a lot of people tooting their products via 3DFrog. :) The A:M Community has always needed this type of thing but often has failed to support it. May this time be different! If I could also make a suggestion. Once content gets going I think themed sets of models would be popular; think 'Model kits'. I think it would be a sign of a healthy 3D community artists, modelers, texturers and riggers could earn at least a modest income from their work. Long live 3DFrog!
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#7 dborruso

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:09 PM

Thanks for your support Rodney. It means a lot. We are willing to give it a good go and stick it out. If it takes time to gather content that's ok. Rome wasn't buit in a day, as they say. We will give it our best effort.
Dennis Borruso

#8 MMZ_TimeLord

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:43 PM

I too have bookmarked it as one of my A:M sources... I may even submit something for sale... you just never know. :D
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#9 John Bigboote

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:59 PM

Cool beans! This kinda stuff is HUGE in the Poser community, could work. Here's a question...any plans to use HAMR (once available) as a viewing interface so potential buyers can see the models from all angles? Also of interest...but not mentioned as of yet to my knowledge... IF you sell a model of an outside source...what pecentage/fee will you charge? Just curious. GOOD LUCK!

#10 dborruso

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 08:14 PM

Hey john, thanks a lot.

I havent thought of using HAMR as a way of viewing models. It is an excellent idea. I'm not sure how webhamr works. As long as it wouldn't give access to the model files somehow I suppose if an artist would like to show their work this way I can host it for them and provide a link on their product page. It is something we will look into when the technology is available. Thanks for the great idea. Of course if the store actually turns profit we can look into a better integration than that. But we are very limited on budget right now.

When we sell third party models the artist gets 80% of the sale, paypal gets 1.9% - 2.9% plus 30 cents, and the rest goes to 3dfrog. Any 3dfrog profit at the end of the month each 3dfrog store partner gets 20% and the other 40 % goes to developing the store further (we'll worry about taxes if we ever make a profit lol).

Thanks for the encouragement!



Cool beans! This kinda stuff is HUGE in the Poser community, could work.

Here's a question...any plans to use HAMR (once available) as a viewing interface so potential buyers can see the models from all angles?

Also of interest...but not mentioned as of yet to my knowledge... IF you sell a model of an outside source...what pecentage/fee will you charge?

Just curious. GOOD LUCK!


Dennis Borruso

#11 Rodney

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:06 PM

As long as it wouldn't give access to the model files


Dennis,
This is where HAMR definitely would save the day.
v13 is already equipped to save out to binary project files (.PRJB)
These files can be read by HAMR enabled viewers (like HAMR Viewer and webHAMR) but the files cannot be accessed as text.

So people do get the models, projects etc. but NOT in editable form.
They could view them in 3D all they wanted as provided in the .PRJB file but it would be in a 'read only' format.

I agree. This would make for a nice interface.
I'm hoping to have a lot of the Extra DVD content viewable in this way although it will proably not require the binary files. For free downloads you could just post those in standard format. Paid resources would get the binary treatment.

Rodney
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#12 yardie

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 01:18 AM

Well I have signed up I realy hope this picks up.

#13 dborruso

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 03:17 AM

Thanks for the info Rod. That being the case we will find a way to integrate it to the store. Thanks for signing up yardie :) Thanks for the support.
Dennis Borruso

#14 ddustin

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 04:54 AM

Dennis, I plan on offering some models as well, as soon as I can find the time. This is a really great idea, as long as it doesn't turn into salesmen trying to sell to other salesmen. David
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#15 DarkLimit

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:42 AM

Our goal is to supply artists with custom built models and sets that are unique.. breaking the norm of repetative designs.. Thanks for all ur surpport...

#16 KenH

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 07:31 AM

I wish you success. But don't be too disappointed if you don't get it. Be realistic. An idea might be to accept requests for specific models from clients....maybe with rotos etc.
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#17 dborruso

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 08:52 AM

Thanks David, we look forward to getting some of your models. Thanks Ken, we won't be too disappointed if the store is not a financial success. We will be happy running the store and offering service for artists. We already got a request for custom models so that is a good start. Some fun stuff to build too. As Darklimit said we hope to offer models in the future of a unique nature. We are brainstorming ideas for this. Any suggestions are accepted.
Dennis Borruso

#18 Krazyman

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:04 AM

The site has only Dollars and Euros, how about British Pounds... :blink:
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#19 LurkerAbove

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:56 AM

Being a relative newcommer, I noticed the suggestion for new models was dinosaurs and girls, which might be a good suggestion, though I confess isn't my current market. Have you looked into caricatures of popular/political figures? Are there risks involved?

#20 dborruso

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 04:26 PM

I added British Pounds. If you need a political or popular figure you can make a request for one by contacting us. We will do models on demand.
Dennis Borruso

#21 dborruso

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 02:06 PM

The 3dfrog Store got it's first third party submissions today. They are 3 beautiful house models by Andy Mulia. Take a look at these wonderful models he submitted:

http://3dfrog.com/st...ufacturers_id=4

We hope for many more to come. It is the community that will make this store happen. There are 3 of us on staff but we can't offer the diversity of models a whole community can. This store is really about everybody.

Thanks A Lot Andy! I hope you inspire others to submit.
Dennis Borruso

#22 yardie

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 11:55 PM

[attachmentid=20135][attachmentid=20136]I know this is going to sound back 2 front but You real want a FAQ for people making models with the Information Required for the Read me Text close together. Better still send the people that want to send models this information. Working on a model and flicking back and forth on web pages is kind of putting me of the whole idea. As you know that Internet gets quite over loaded at times or a page will just crash on one. Of particular Interest would be a list of what you might call copy right material. From what I understand any thing that is copyright should be labeled as such. I also use a chat program called IMVU were you can make and sell graphic products. A while ago I made an animated gif sticker of the bunny from The AM CD. I gave the sticker the name, "Bunny shuffle". The sticker was up for 2 months before some on decided I was breaking some copyright law. yet I have loads of other animated stickers from AM that have said noting about(Example is Goofy)

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  • Goofie_Small.gif


#23 itsjustme

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 01:55 AM

[attachmentid=20135][attachmentid=20136]Of particular Interest would be a list of what you might call copy right material. From what I understand any thing that is copyright should be labeled as such.


Read this. Copyright notice is no longer required.

I also use a chat program called IMVU were you can make and sell graphic products. A while ago I made an animated gif sticker of the bunny from The AM CD. I gave the sticker the name, "Bunny shuffle". The sticker was up for 2 months before some on decided I was breaking some copyright law. yet I have loads of other animated stickers from AM that have said noting about(Example is Goofy)


Goofy first appeared in 1932 according to this page, so, according to this page, he is still protected by copyright. Bugs Bunny's beginnings were somewhere in 1940 according to this page...so he would still be protected as well.

Just because they haven't called you on it, doesn't mean you haven't violated someone's copyright.

#24 yardie

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:03 AM

[attachmentid=20138]Duh? that still dont answer my simple question. the 2 models came with Animation master. neither of them were called Goofy or bugs bunny. The goofy sticker has not been flagged and I have sold 4 stickers. From what I understand the models that come with Animation master are Free. Most creaters only ask for credit for using there material. So why have IMVU left the bunny sticker that uses the motion capture tap dance. I can only imagine Warner Brothers must be hard up (LMGDAO)


http://i92.photobuck...lop-150x142.gif

http://images.imvu.c...walk-100x80.gif.

Any way they only things have been adding to my models to make them look more appealing are Decals of texture images form either the AM CD or of the Internet.

BTW not sure if I should say this but I think the models on AM would make better viewing then the ones used in IMVU. That is If AM ever made a chat program like IMVU.
Personal I find IMVU to be very greedy

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#25 itsjustme

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 04:25 AM

[attachmentid=20138]Duh? that still dont answer my simple question. the 2 models came with Animation master. neither of them were called Goofy or bugs bunny. The goofy sticker has not been flagged and I have sold 4 stickers. From what I understand the models that come with Animation master are Free. Most creaters only ask for credit for using there material. So why have IMVU left the bunny sticker that uses the motion capture tap dance. I can only imagine Warner Brothers must be hard up (LMGDAO)


http://i92.photobuck...lop-150x142.gif

http://images.imvu.c...walk-100x80.gif.

Any way they only things have been adding to my models to make them look more appealing are Decals of texture images form either the AM CD or of the Internet.

BTW not sure if I should say this but I think the models on AM would make better viewing then the ones used in IMVU. That is If AM ever made a chat program like IMVU.
Personal I find IMVU to be very greedy


Dude, "Fatman" is also not called "Homer Simpson", but that is obviously who it is. The models on the CD, for the most part, can be used for whatever you want if they are original characters and there isn't a stipulation in the model notes. However, since the modelers that made those characters don't own the copyright to Bugs Bunny or Homer Simpson, you'll probably have a hard time convincing the owners that the change of name was adequate enough for you to make money off of them. Of course, there is also "fair use", but I don't know if what you are doing can be classified as that...do some reading.

Oh, and "Duh?" right back at ya, ace.

#26 yardie

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 05:09 AM

You mean Dough! dough! and doug! dont you ( :lol: :lol: lol). Well thanks justme you have made things clearer. So what all the copyright stuff means is I can make my own painting of the Mona Lisa with my face and show it off to all of the world. But the minute I try to make money from it I am busted. cool. I think I am on the same page now when it comes to the modeling of Well known characters. The only query I have now is the use of decals and material to make my models look realistic. I am wondering if I have to dig up my favorit imaging program to make up my own textures. Most of the images I use either came with AM or down loaded of the internet. I am talking about wood and brick type textures. I have found with some people models that already come with materials are real not usable when it comes to rendering the image in an animation. I would hate to make an impressive model and sell it to some one that wants to use it in an animation only for them to find it takes weeks just to render the first frame.

#27 ddustin

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 06:12 AM

I have a model of a UPS truck, I'd like to put on the site. Do I need to remove the UPS logo? It was used in a crash involving said truck. If someone uses it for their own projects, it should be OK, but if they use it for profit then they would need to remove the UPS logo... right? Lawyers? David
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#28 luckbat

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 06:46 AM

So what all the copyright stuff means is I can make my own painting of the Mona Lisa with my face and show it off to all of the world. But the minute I try to make money from it I am busted. cool.

Gah. So much misinformation about copyright. Start by reading this:
http://www.llrx.com/...ggersbeware.htm

(Incidentally, the Mona Lisa is 500 years old, and can safely be considered to be in the public domain.)

#29 yardie

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 07:19 AM

Will I think if theses store want to pick up quick you guys had better let everyone know what can be use. when it comes to Textures that are made from Templates. It's real no goog hoping everyone reads this laws. after all learning to make modles takes up a lot of peoples time. Flicking through pages on the Internet checking for copy right laws is a put of. I must admit the only time I have looked at whats ok and not ok to do is from the links on this forum topic. I have kept way from making models that require skeletons cause I imagine that too could be tricky. All this information is required by the modeler before they even begin to make there model. I personal think this idea is going to kick of big time once everyone has a clear rule book and they dont have to keep flipping back and forth. I imagine sometime later on you guys will( and should) give the modelers a form with labels and blanks to Fill in rather then make a Readme txt file. people with arctic talent dont often have financial talent to go hand in hand. So please dont let the law man help themself to a free meal.

#30 dborruso

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 07:48 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I have made a downloadable txt version of the seller info on the page. I hope that helps making it more convenient than using the internet page.

There is a link to copyrighted materials info on our copyright policy page:

http://www.copyright...ircs/circ1.html

I hope that link helps clear up some issues. I don't know what you mean by using textures that are from templates. It is really up to the artist using other's textures to know the limitations of those textures. If you are unsure of if you can use someone else's textures it is best to contact the creator of them.

I found this ups truck on turbosquid:

http://www.turbosqui...x.cfm/ID/284216

It looks like they did not include the logo. To be safe this might be the best bet or to change the logo.

I will try to find a way to make the copyright info easier to understand, possibly with a faq as you suggested. I will have to do a little research on it. Other sites don't really offer anymore info than we are offering on the subject, I kind of followed the lead of them. But if we can make it easier, even better.

Thanks for that link luckbat. I added it to our copyright page.
Dennis Borruso

#31 zandoriastudios

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 09:37 AM

I think that you could argue "fair use" reproducing the UPS truck with the logo, since you see the truck with logo everywhere.

Will Sutton

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#32 ddustin

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 11:38 AM

I think that you could argue "fair use" reproducing the UPS truck with the logo, since you see the truck with logo everywhere.


I think what I'll do is take the logo off the model, but leave it in the image directory.

The end user can decide if they want to apply it or not.

David
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#33 itsjustme

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 11:42 AM

I have kept way from making models that require skeletons cause I imagine that too could be tricky.


You can use any of the rigs available for Animation Master in a character for anything you want, you just can't sell the rigs themselves.

#34 jon

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 12:31 PM

will: fair use is a copyright exception, but usage of logos is a trademark issue.

dustin: technically, you'd be opening yourself up to litigation if your model was used in a way that ups could argue misrepresents or damages their brand.

parody is the usual loophole here, but since you can't know how the model will be used, you can't rely on parody applying.

-jon

#35 Kaijin

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:06 AM

Why not just have it say something like "use these models at your own risk." Or something like that. Obviously it will need to be worded properly but yeah just use that...Anyways I wish you a huge success and I will most likely be commissioning (I don't think I spelled that right...) custom models from you guys. I will check out your site now.

#36 yardie

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 01:09 PM

Why not just have it say something like "use these models at your own risk." Or something like that. Obviously it will need to be worded properly but yeah just use that...Anyways I wish you a huge success and I will most likely be commissioning (I don't think I spelled that right...) custom models from you guys. I will check out your site now.


One Major problem I have found is that if you make a model in version 10.5 with poses and other relationships most of the poses will not work in version 12.
So I guess to be on the safe side I will be making models with out poses and materials. If you have some of the old versions of AM you testing them would be quick.

#37 ddustin

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 05:40 PM

Dennis, I am trying to send the file with the delivery truck but it is getting bounced back. David EDIT: It looks like it went through now.
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#38 dborruso

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Posted 08 September 2006 - 03:23 AM

David, I got the model.

David has submitted a very nice model of a delivery truck. Here is the link:

http://3dfrog.com/st...;products_id=15

We are very happy to be getting such nice quality models submitted. We really need more and I hope people are planning on submitting. The more variety in the store the better for everyone.

Yardie, I have older versions of a:m I can test models in, that's not a problem.

We look forward to working with you kaijin.
Dennis Borruso

#39 Kaijin

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 01:16 PM

Sounds good I will check my funds and what models I need and get back to you.