Jump to content


Photo

Render box spec challenge


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
33 replies to this topic

#1 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:08 AM

About every year we speculate on the most powerful renderbox one could make for the money.

One thing I find hard in scoping this out is that it's difficult to find up to date benchmarks of CPUs that test single core performance.

That would be useful for judging Netrender usefulness since each Netrender node is a single-threaded process.

At the consumer level it seems like the best AMD cores take about 50% longer to do something than the best Intel cores. Hard to find comparisons of server-lever CPUs like Xeon and Opterons that can work on multi-CPU motherboards.


Anyone want to spec out a box for 2013?

Lets say under $1000 for a box (or boxes) that can run Netrender nodes and be networked with your regular A:M computer. Overclocking is fair if that is easy for the user to do.

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#2 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:50 AM

About every year we speculate on the most powerful renderbox one could make for the money.

One thing I find hard in scoping this out is that it's difficult to find up to date benchmarks of CPUs that test single core performance.

That would be useful for judging Netrender usefulness since each Netrender node is a single-threaded process.

At the consumer level it seems like the best AMD cores take about 50% longer to do something than the best Intel cores. Hard to find comparisons of server-lever CPUs like Xeon and Opterons that can work on multi-CPU motherboards.


Anyone want to spec out a box for 2013?

Lets say under $1000 for a box (or boxes) that can run Netrender nodes and be networked with your regular A:M computer. Overclocking is fair if that is easy for the user to do.


Take in mind that the most expensive intel cores are more than 5x more expensive than the most expensive once from AMD:
- Intel Core i7-3970X Extreme Edition (a real monster) = about 933 Euro in my favourite online store.
- AMD FX-8350 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+ = about 180 Euro in my favourite online store.

However I have to say, that this is not the ideal time to put together a new computer. Intel will release a new CPU generation in the 4th quater of this year and AMD plans on expanding their portfolio too. That means: Buying now will not give you a huge saving (because it is too early in he year that the prices of the "older" generation would drop massively) and you can not get the fastest CPUs neighter.

Comparing server-cpus is about the same... intel is faster, AMD is cheaper. (on core base)

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#3 thejobe

thejobe

    Master Prop maker

  • Craftsman/Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1072 posts

Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:50 PM

got a project for me to test with?
my YouTube channel if your bored
need help with something? maybe i can help! Ask thejobe!
or you can ask for help on the forums here
I am also on Skype as thejobe100 if you want to do a chat session.

#4 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:24 PM

There's always going to be something new in the future, we hope, but what about now? What if we need to make a box NOW?

Here's my initial try

Intel:

i7-3770K four/eight core CPU + CPU fan + ASRock Z77 Pro3 Motherboard combo $390
16GB DDR3 RAM $100
ATX Case w/ 500watt PS $60
Video included on MB $0
500GB HDD $30
Windows 8 OEM $100

total: $680


AMD:

FX 8350 8 core CPU + CPU Fan + ASRock 970 Extreme4 Motherboard combo $319
16GB DDR3 RAM $100
ATX Case w/ 500watt PS $60
Basic video card $50
500GB HDD $30
Windows 8 OEM $100

total: $659


In both cases I'm presuming a DVD drive, mouse, keyboard and monitor will be borrowed from another computer long enough to install the OS and other software.

i figure the rendering throughput would be similar between the two boxes because four intel cores can do about what six AMD cores can do. If hyper threading (8 logical cores) were used with the intel CPU that would probably bring it up to what 8 AMD cores do.

The intel CPU has the advantage of being about 70 watts while the AMD is 125 watts

Both these motherboards have room for an additional 16Gb RAM beyond what is spec'd above.

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#5 Rodney

Rodney

    A:M Bot 14309

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6930 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:28 AM

Thanks for posting that Robert. I've been itching to purchase a new computer (a desktop) for quite awhile now. If I could find the right setup I might spend some money.
"Animation is 90 percent hard work.  The other half is entirely mental!"
See my effort to think about the art of animation at: My Blog
Want to learn A:M? Start TaoA:M

#6 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:02 AM

Looking more closely at this chart and comparing the single core performance of the i7-3770K to the FX-8150 (chart doesn't include an FX-8350)...

(Cinebench tests a CPU's ability to render an image in the 3D program C4D, probably about as similar to A:M rendering as a common benchmark will be)

Posted Image

For our single-core Netrender purposes the i7-3770K ($300) looks to be quite a deal compared to the i7-3960X ($1000).

We can regard these numbers as a comparison of frames rendered per unit of time. If the FX-8150 core can output .97 frames per minute then we could expect the i7-3770K core to output 1.66 per minute of the same scene.

I could extrapolate the FX-8350 score to possibly be 1.07 based simply on the increase in clock speed.



8 AMD cores x 1.07 = a NetRender total of 8.56 (frames per unit of time)
4 intel cores x 1.66 = a Netrender total of 6.64

turning on hyperthreading in an intel CPU gets about a 25% increase in throughput for 8 logical cores over just four physical cores based on one forum member's benchmark results.

4 intel cores x 1.66 x 1.25 = a Netrender total of 8.3

So it's getting close to a draw between the Intel box and the AMD box

However, if I were building a computer for me to work on (model, animate, test render) with A:M, I would go with the intel CPU since it would be about 50% faster for the single A:M process.

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#7 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

Looking more closely at this chart and comparing the single core performance of the i7-3770K to the FX-8150 (chart doesn't include an FX-8350)...

(Cinebench tests a CPU's ability to render an image in the 3D program C4D, probably about as similar to A:M rendering as a common benchmark will be)

Posted Image

For our single-core Netrender purposes the i7-3770K ($300) looks to be quite a deal compared to the i7-3960X ($1000).

We can regard these numbers as a comparison of frames rendered per unit of time. If the FX-8150 core can output .97 frames per minute then we could expect the i7-3770K core to output 1.66 per minute of the same scene.

I could extrapolate the FX-8350 score to possibly be 1.07 based simply on the increase in clock speed.



8 AMD cores x 1.07 = a NetRender total of 8.56 (frames per unit of time)
4 intel cores x 1.66 = a Netrender total of 6.64

turning on hyperthreading in an intel CPU gets about a 25% increase in throughput for 8 logical cores over just four physical cores based on one forum member's benchmark results.

4 intel cores x 1.66 x 1.25 = a Netrender total of 8.3

So it's getting close to a draw between the Intel box and the AMD box

However, if I were building a computer for me to work on (model, animate, test render) with A:M, I would go with the intel CPU since it would be about 50% faster for the single A:M process.


8150 was a bad one. It is said that 8350 is about 8-16% faster at the same clockspeed. (Depending on the benchmarks)
(Cinebench test 10-16%). But if u r after faster singlecore performance intels are much faster.
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#8 NancyGormezano

NancyGormezano

    Runs With Scissors

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7686 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:39 AM

Love it. This info is terrific. Thanks. Every now & then...I get the computer upgrade shakes & willies...then I lie down.

#9 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:13 AM

Both of those CPUs have some overclocking potential. I don't know how much one might surpass the other with that.

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#10 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:41 AM

Both of those CPUs have some overclocking potential. I don't know how much one might surpass the other with that.


From what I have read both have quite nice overclocking potentials. The best overclocking scores can be found with FX-CPUs from AMD which slightly surpasses Intel's potential. (4,8 GHz x 8 on AMD does not seem to be that hard to archieve, if you believe the forums out there)
The big but is, that it will have a quite high power consumption. (much higher than the Intel once)

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#11 steve392

steve392

    Animation:Master

  • Craftsman/Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3210 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:18 PM

This is an interesting topic and very usefull especially to me as I kno very little about the workings of a pc
I say what I like and like what I say


sometimes

#12 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:08 PM

My own thumbnail spec for overclocking is that it has to be fairly plug and play in implementation. The intel quad core Q6600 I have now can be overclocked from 2.4 to 3.0 GHz with just an app from the desktop and still uses standard fan. That's easy enough for almost any user to do. Do i need to bolt on a different cooler? OK I can manage that, but maybe not most users. Still, I'd consider it but needing to do a lot of experimentation with voltages and other parameters... then it's getting a little bit less likely for me because I don't really know how all that interacts

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#13 thejobe

thejobe

    Master Prop maker

  • Craftsman/Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1072 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:22 PM

i have the AMD phenom II X6 1100T (4.1Ghz) now and i can tell you its lightning fast.
my YouTube channel if your bored
need help with something? maybe i can help! Ask thejobe!
or you can ask for help on the forums here
I am also on Skype as thejobe100 if you want to do a chat session.

#14 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:05 PM

i have the AMD phenom II X6 1100T (4.1Ghz) now and i can tell you its lightning fast.



You're overclocking that, right?

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#15 thejobe

thejobe

    Master Prop maker

  • Craftsman/Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1072 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:07 PM

yes orginally 3.75ghz
my YouTube channel if your bored
need help with something? maybe i can help! Ask thejobe!
or you can ask for help on the forums here
I am also on Skype as thejobe100 if you want to do a chat session.

#16 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:55 PM

yes orginally 3.75ghz


Can you tell us a bit about what you are doing to overclock it? Hardware? Software?

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#17 thejobe

thejobe

    Master Prop maker

  • Craftsman/Mentor
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1072 posts

Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:36 PM

yes orginally 3.75ghz


Can you tell us a bit about what you are doing to overclock it? Hardware? Software?


i am using an MSI 890FXA-GD70 motherboard with auto OC
what it does is assesses how fast the ram is with how much FSB you specify on the board and it adjusts the CPU to appropriate speed without it cooking the processor.
you need a really hefty heatsink and Fan to go any higher than it is at now. the only way to get any more speed out of it would be to use water cooling or maybe encase it in ice?
right now i got 8GB of ram running at 1600mhz (1544 actual) and bus speed is running at 320mhz (307 actual)
my YouTube channel if your bored
need help with something? maybe i can help! Ask thejobe!
or you can ask for help on the forums here
I am also on Skype as thejobe100 if you want to do a chat session.

#18 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

Article with suggestions for best PC build (not necessarily render box build) at $300, $600 and $1200...

http://lifehacker.co...or-600-and-1200

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#19 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:33 PM

Article with suggestions for best PC build (not necessarily render box build) at $300, $600 and $1200...

http://lifehacker.co...or-600-and-1200


Here is another nice info on the AMD FX 8350 someone posted at your link:
http://www.cpubenchm...M...ore&id=1780

For rendering this is very likely a very cool processor... I am playing with the notion of getting one...
But anyway: Nice systems and a good help for anyone who needs to built something like that without having too much insides about CPUs / MBs / RAM.

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#20 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 03 June 2013 - 02:06 PM

Article with suggestions for best PC build (not necessarily render box build) at $300, $600 and $1200...

http://lifehacker.co...or-600-and-1200


I think the $600 box would be a decent A:M workstation (more than what i work on now) if you changed out their 2-core CPU for a four-core CPU and upped the RAM to 8 GB at least.

Of course it wouldn't be $600 anymore :lol:

I like their idea of making a cheap Hometheater PC. Something with more CPU oomph and RAM could make a plausible NetRender box when you weren't watching movies on it.

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#21 higginsdj

higginsdj

    OSX & Wun Subscriptions

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3699 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:34 PM

In this day and age, I think people are relying more on portable computing. I only have 1 desktop system left (an old 27" iMac). My animation machine, a Toshiba Qosmio (18") laptop, is old (2+ years) and dying so will be looking for a replacement system. I'm looking at a Dell Alienware machine, 18", i7 3.7ghz with 32gb RAM to see me through the next 2+years. Obviously more expensive but built for hard processing anywhere I go. Cheers
D a v i d H i g g i n s
Canberra, Australia

#22 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:34 PM

In this day and age, I think people are relying more on portable computing. I only have 1 desktop system left (an old 27" iMac). My animation machine, a Toshiba Qosmio (18") laptop, is old (2+ years) and dying so will be looking for a replacement system. I'm looking at a Dell Alienware machine, 18", i7 3.7ghz with 32gb RAM to see me through the next 2+years. Obviously more expensive but built for hard processing anywhere I go.

Cheers


It is quite easy: Laptops are less powerful for the same price as normal systems.
There are many people using laptops and it is reasonable. I on the other hand have left laptops behind for the lag of power.
An Alienware tends to be fast, but it cant compare to a high end workstation OR if it would be the battery time would be that low that it would not be a laptop anymore ;). And of course the laptop would run quite hot, because there is not the same space for cooling.

Especially for graphic works I need a real mouse, a real keyboard and a big, good display.
Yes you can use a laptop with that, but if you get all that together including the speed in a laptop, you more or less have a workstation.

If you need the flexibility to use it anywere you want, you will have to make compromises on the other stuff... The good thing today:
A:M itself does not need that much of power. But rendering is something different and it is likely, that you will notice the difference...

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#23 higginsdj

higginsdj

    OSX & Wun Subscriptions

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3699 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 01:44 PM

I do my animation anywhere - anytime. A bit difficult carting around a desktop system :) I don't use my laptops on battery only - ever. (My Qosmio lasts just long enough on battery to stop what I am doing, save stuff and shut down). Yes, they run hot but no hotter than a desktop - you just don't happen to be sitting with the desktop box in front of you! If one were to put together a desktop system with the same spec and these gaming laptops, there is not a great deal of difference in the price (don't forget to include the cost of the screen, keyboard, sound system etc) Of course I am comparing prices here in Australia. Different markets may vary. Cheers
D a v i d H i g g i n s
Canberra, Australia

#24 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:04 PM

For me I find I can't do real animation without being glued to my seat for many hours straight so I might as well be home on a desktop to do it. Is there any laptop that you can actually see outdoors? I always fantasize about living the café life.

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!


#25 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:29 PM

I do my animation anywhere - anytime. A bit difficult carting around a desktop system :)

I don't use my laptops on battery only - ever. (My Qosmio lasts just long enough on battery to stop what I am doing, save stuff and shut down). Yes, they run hot but no hotter than a desktop - you just don't happen to be sitting with the desktop box in front of you!

If one were to put together a desktop system with the same spec and these gaming laptops, there is not a great deal of difference in the price (don't forget to include the cost of the screen, keyboard, sound system etc) Of course I am comparing prices here in Australia. Different markets may vary.

Cheers


From a logical point of view this is very unlikely. Building something smaller with less space, less power consumption, less ability to cool it and optimised for being taken away (for instance being resistent against movement, shaking, etc.) just needs to be payed with something. It just has to be slower or more expensive (if both are on the same technology level), otherwise desktop components are overpriced in Australia. Have a look at the highend graphic cards today... none of these can be put into a laptop because of the lagg of space. In addition: You can built a desktop computer by yourself while you have to buy a laptop prebuilt by a manufacturer (at least I am not aware of laptop-cases which can be put together by yourself).

This means (in most cases) that you will pay more for the components since the manufacturer has work with it and will charge you for that (including the win they want to earn). The only exception from that could be that the discount the manufacturer can get is that high that it would include the work and win he likes to get and he is willing to give that discount to you.

But as I said before: If you need a laptop because you are travelling or you just want to be able to work in the garden or where ever, a laptop is a good choice.

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#26 thefreshestever

thefreshestever

    Prolific

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 830 posts

Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:27 AM

For me I find I can't do real animation without being glued to my seat for many hours straight so I might as well be home on a desktop to do it.

Is there any laptop that you can actually see outdoors? I always fantasize about living the café life.


there´s stuff like that...

http://www.amazon.co..._sim_sbs_misc_1

i have one, and it´s not doing much. a little, but not much. if you are sitting in direct sunlight you still can´t see anything properly. other than that it looks ridiculous. i only use it on my balcony sometimes, where no one can see me. :D

#27 Roger

Roger

    Mentor

  • *A:M User*
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1647 posts

Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:45 PM

My own thumbnail spec for overclocking is that it has to be fairly plug and play in implementation.

The intel quad core Q6600 I have now can be overclocked from 2.4 to 3.0 GHz with just an app from the desktop and still uses standard fan. That's easy enough for almost any user to do.

Do i need to bolt on a different cooler? OK I can manage that, but maybe not most users. Still, I'd consider it but needing to do a lot of experimentation with voltages and other parameters... then it's getting a little bit less likely for me because I don't really know how all that interacts


There is a lot of trial and error involved. You bump up the bus speed a bit, see if it is stable. If not, back it off. Bump up the voltage, see if it is stable, etc. You can get higher overclocks (or is it more stable? If forget) by increasing the voltage, but increasing the voltage increases the heat and means you'll need a better/more efficient heatsink. You have to be careful with upping the voltage, though, because you can fry your CPU.

Used to be way back in the day when all CPUs were unlocked, you could play around with both the bus speed and the multiplier. You could get a 300mhz celeron and get 400 or 450mhz out of it, easy. That's an ancient example, though.

These days they usually lock the multiplier on the CPU (unless you pay extra for one that allows overclocking) so you are limited to FSB overclocking.

Some boards have auto OC settings, I think the ASUS ROG boards have something like that. You can usually get a pretty good speed bump with the middle setting (there are low, medium, high OC settings).

You want to goose things much higher than 25% over spec, you have to fiddle around a lot or invest in more exotic cooling solutions.
...............................................................................................................

#28 higginsdj

higginsdj

    OSX & Wun Subscriptions

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3699 posts

Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:31 PM

I like the old Hash mantra - kitchen table animation. I animate where ever I am - at work, at home on the dining room table, at the in-laws. I do not animate outside though. I could do it in my study behind a desktop system but my wife prefers my presence so I sit at the dining room table (she will not have a desktop computer at the dining room table - been there already :) ) Yes, desktop components are very expensive here in Australia, at least 2-3 times what you guys pay in the states. Laptops are actually cheaper than desktop systems here and stores do not actually sell desktop systems anymore - only laptops. To find a desktop you either have to go to a big electical store or a specialist computer store (the latter being very few and far between these days). My last visit to a major electronics outlet store and there were over 100 different configurations of laptops on offer and 2 desktop systems! Cheers
D a v i d H i g g i n s
Canberra, Australia

#29 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:10 AM

I like the old Hash mantra - kitchen table animation. I animate where ever I am - at work, at home on the dining room table, at the in-laws. I do not animate outside though. I could do it in my study behind a desktop system but my wife prefers my presence so I sit at the dining room table (she will not have a desktop computer at the dining room table - been there already :) )

Yes, desktop components are very expensive here in Australia, at least 2-3 times what you guys pay in the states. Laptops are actually cheaper than desktop systems here and stores do not actually sell desktop systems anymore - only laptops. To find a desktop you either have to go to a big electical store or a specialist computer store (the latter being very few and far between these days). My last visit to a major electronics outlet store and there were over 100 different configurations of laptops on offer and 2 desktop systems!

Cheers


Good to know, thanks David. Maybe Australians just don't buy desktops and because of that the demand is just not high enough and like that economic scarcity is coming into that calculation. (which is bad, if you ask me... it will increase the prices massively without a good reason other than that it is not cost-effective for sellers to buy those components in larger amounts but only on a specific question base).

Anyway: A laptop is a good choice too today and it should be fast enough to run A:M on it... only rendering-speed may suffer a little...

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#30 higginsdj

higginsdj

    OSX & Wun Subscriptions

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3699 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:10 PM

Just paid a visit to the only 'build your own computer' store in town. A basic i3 with 4Gb RAM (onboard graphics) - $599AU. An equivalent AMD without the monitor - $419. Box with Gigabyte G1.Sniper-M3 Motherboard, 16Gb DDR3 RAM, 2Tb SATAIII HD, DVD/Blu-Ray Player, GeForce GTX-670 Video (plus a 27" monitor) - $2,000AU. (they don't discount for removing the monitor keyboard, mouse and speakers) My Qosmio has just died so I have put it in for a service and fix up and hopefully resurrect it before having to buy a new one (I have been told the Toshiba Satellite P70 is a good replacement for the Qosmio and a reasonable price at under $2000 with a Gen 4 i7 processor, 16Gb RAM, conventional and SD HD's) Cheers
D a v i d H i g g i n s
Canberra, Australia

#31 higginsdj

higginsdj

    OSX & Wun Subscriptions

  • Film
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3699 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:22 PM

Intel:

i7-3770K four/eight core CPU + CPU fan + ASRock Z77 Pro3 Motherboard combo $390
16GB DDR3 RAM $100
ATX Case w/ 500watt PS $60
Video included on MB $0
500GB HDD $30
Windows 8 OEM $100

total: $680



Australian $ Comparison

Intel:

i7-3770K four/eight core CPU + CPU fan + Gigabyte Intel Motherboard $590
16GB DDR3 RAM $159 ($270 for 16GB of 1866Mhz RAM)
ATX Case w/ 500watt PS $139
Video included on MB $0 (? don't know the spec's of their mother boards - I assume so)
500GB HDD $79
Windows 8 OEM $119

total: $1086
D a v i d H i g g i n s
Canberra, Australia

#32 Fuchur

Fuchur

    PatchWorker

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5000 posts

Posted 17 June 2013 - 10:37 PM

I had a look at this online store in Australia and did a (complete) built:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMD FX-8350 Black Edition 8-Core Processor $225.00 (I assumed this is the boxed version, since the image looks like that... I could not get info on that so... if it is the tray-version you would need a CPU-cooler too)
Antec Three Hundred U3 Mid Tower Case $75.00
Samsung SH-224DB(BB)/BEBS 24x Internal SATA DVD OEM Burner Drive $19.99
Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 3.5" 1TB SATA 6.0Gb/s Hard Drive $65.00
Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive/SSD $105.00
ASRock 980DE3-U3S3 AM3+ ATX Motherboard $65.00
Cooler Master Thunder 600W Power Supply $75.00
ASUS Radeon HD 7790 1GB DirectCUII Overclock Video Card $159.00
Kingston HyperX Black 16GB (2x 8GB) DDR3-1600 KHX16C10B1BK2/16X - $145.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> $933.99

That looks pricy too, but be aware that there is a real graphiccard included (a quite good one), a good case (I really think it is important to have a steady and good one in terms of air flow, etc. and I always get that case because it just rocks in that aspects), be aware that in general the case/power-supply combinations offer not that good power supplies and that is really bad for a computer, a SSD and a normal HDD and a DVD-Burner. I would not recommend a on board graphic solution (at least if you play from time to time or do some GPU-calculations it will hit you heavily afterwards if you do not get a real one.)

If you do not want to go with AMD, change the CPU and the motherboard and you are good to go.

See you
*Fuchur*
"I know, that I don't know."
See my projects, tutorials, reviews and join the German Animation:Master-Community at
www.PatchWork3d.de

Name: Gerald Zum Gahr, alias Fuchur
What stands "Fuchur" for?

Do want to see my favorite A:M-images?
Best of A:M collected by Gerald Zum Gahr

Searching for a *.X-Exporter(DirectX) or a *.dts-Exporter(Torque) for A:M?
Exporter Page

And how can I export to *.FBX-files or other 3d- / game-engines?
FBX-Pipeline to Unity3d / DirectX-Pipeline to Quest3d

Need more converters? *.obj OBJ), *.lwo , *.act or *.dxf ?
Arthur Walaseks' Exporters

Searching for great and free plugins?
www.sgross.com by Steffen Gross

You are searching for tutorials? More video- and text-tutorials can be found here:
Tutorial section of PW3d

You want to make your own video tutorial?
Recommended Tools and Step By Step Instructions

"R M B" stands for "Right Mouse Button"!

#33 yoda64

yoda64

    Prolific

  • Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 726 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 12:03 PM

Late to the party :-) I have built in the last week my new develop machine and I can say only wow , Haswell cpu's are rocking ..... The only disadvantage , the price for this machine is not cheap , ~ $2900 (i7-4770, 32 gb memory, gtx660, 1x250gb SSD, 2x500gb SSD, and the small components (case , power supply and so one ...)) Have a look at my benchmark results . Attached File  Benchresults.pdf   31.02KB   15 downloads the first benchmark project is the teapot from robcat (only with another name ), the others I'm using for tests.

Kind Regards
Steffen

http://www.sgross.com/plugins/


#34 robcat2075

robcat2075

    occasional smarty-pants

  • Hash Fellow
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23912 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:36 PM

Late to the party :-)
I have built in the last week my new develop machine and I can say only wow , Haswell cpu's are rocking .....
The only disadvantage , the price for this machine is not cheap , ~ $2900
(i7-4770, 32 gb memory, gtx660, 1x250gb SSD, 2x500gb SSD, and the small components (case , power supply and so one ...))

Have a look at my benchmark results .
Attached File  Benchresults.pdf   31.02KB   15 downloads
the first benchmark project is the teapot from robcat (only with another name ), the others I'm using for tests.



For English-speakers I'll note that the comma in a number such as "95,7047" is like a decimal point. I think. :)

Robert Holmén
------

Got an A:M question? Come to Live Answer Time.   Saturdays, Noon CDT (1700 GMT)

Watch the 2017 "Summer Memories" Image Contest Awards

 

My tutorials All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.
 
this is only a ... my gallery of A:M tests

87,848 pushed!: the #1 heavy push on Youtube

Big thanks to... Roger (again!), Shelton (it's huge!), NancyGormezano, Roger, cribbidaj, thefreshestever, Tom, Dalemation, Simon Edmondson, thejobe, Rob_T (2 more x), agep (again!), itsjustme, jason1025(+1), dblhelix (+1),markw, Roger (3x!), mouseman (x 2!), Xtaz, agep, Gerry, thefreshestever, dblhelix (twice!), jason1025, Luuk Steitner, PDM, Rob_T and Dhar!