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zandoriastudios
I've become very frustrated by my slow progress on this project... The trouble is my day job has become a career, and is now demanding too much of my time. I was just a designer..then the Creative Director...now the Director of Design and Engineering. The pay is good--but I do not enjoy what I do....
On my wallpaper of my workstation, TAR is looking back at me, and I just feel depressed that I am not doing what I ought to be doing.

I need to start a kickstarter campaign, and try to raise enough money to fund the project. Get some like-minded artists, and go at this full-time. I feel like I have something unique that I can bring to the world through art, that I will never get that fullfillment through my work career. I am not getting any younger....
Maybe, I should just buy some cases of Ramen noodles and "just do it"!

I could even turn my house into an hippie animation commune!! Thats how radical a leap that I feel I need to make yay.gif yay.gif


Advice appreciated...Anyone wanting to join Zandoria Studios? [must work for ramen noodles huh.gif huh.gifsmile.gif ]
ernesttx
I'm in the same spot you are. I spend too much time at my day job to really get anything accomplished on my projects. Also, I'm working on a plan to set up my own animation type commune myself (well, my studio anyway). I'll join yours if you join mine. hehe
jakerupert
Hi Will,


I feel for you and probably many others here too, that are in quite similar situations.


But... I don`t recomend to quit your good job lightheartedly these days.

I would rather wait till either your kickstartercampaign kickstarts and generates enough money
to work on your project for a certain period of time
or at least till you have saved enough money to take 2 years or more of as somekind of a sabbatical.

To tiecoworkers to your project will get very hard without money, they will get on and off
your bandwaggon as they like and even with money jnvolved organisation will take more of your time
then you will probably like.
So better start alone or with a very small team and don`t aim too high.
Also maybe refocus your goal.
If you want to make money it could make more sense heading for the games direction
then movies.

Just 2 cents from a guy who in fact needs advice on this topic himself. rolleyes.gif
zandoriastudios
Yeah--not something too take lightly....But you can get comfortable with just doing your job, and before you know it your are 45 years old, and you haven't achieved your purpose in life.

What I've GOT to do is rethink my priorities--even if it means taking a different position, job, or just striking out on my own. It is sucking my soul out of me!!!
robcat2075
QUOTE(zandoriastudios @ Jan 6 2012, 08:38 AM) *
I was just a designer..then the Creative Director...now the Director of Design and Engineering. The pay is good--but I do not enjoy what I do....


But other people seem to like what you are doing with it. Don't undervalue that.


"Director of Design and Engineering" unsure.gif

What is your day like?
MMZ_TimeLord
William,

I feel your pain. I've been off the bandwagon of my own project WAY too long. Damn work, then Cancer. Beat the Cancer, so now it's back to work. I WILL be making time for my project soon. I would love to assist with yours as I did on TWO.

Just let me know how I can help.

Hang in there!
ernesttx
I know what you mean about priorities, Will. I made myself a 3 year plan last year in order to do what I want for the remaining years I have. Yes, I'm 45 too smile.gif it's not over, it's getting things in place for you to do what you want.

My plan:
1st year (2011)- out of debt and all the software and hardware that I might need:
Software - editing (vegas pro), compositing (fusion), 3D (AM, Blender,Messiah, Vue10, SynthEyes2011, etc) - also learning period for software
Hardware - T2i, JVC 3CCD HD camcorder (for vfx), audio recorders, etc.

To date, all the above have been met.

2nd year - 2012 - purchase land for studio (will do that end of this month)
during this year - build studio (not a huge place, just something to setup shop and work out of)
everything will be paid for in 2012
will rent out studio as well, as I plan it to be a small backlot for others to film their projects
set up Roku animation channel for subscription based revenue (a dream but what's life without one)

if all goes well, maybe won't need a 3rd year, but in case:

3rd year - save money and network like crazy, create roadmap for projects, take on odd vfx jobs, editing, animation, etc.

2014 (or 2013) - will be working for myself smile.gif

So get those priorities in line, figure out what you want to do and set it in motion. smile.gif 2012 year of the dragon - make it happen.
Ilidrake
Same wagon here, although my career is probably less involved. I work 28 days and get 28 days off so I do have some time to devote to my projects. I would like to do it full time but think I'll wait until I retire.
largento
I think you should do it.

To quote Dr. McCoy: "Get back your command. Get it back before you become part of this collection. Before you really do grow old."

I truly believe that online content is going to be the future of entertainment and quality content is going to be in demand.

There is no reward without risk and as long as you have a good support network, you should be allowed a little madness. Chances are as an artist, most of your family thinks you're a little off to begin with. :-)

If you fail, then you fail and you don't have to die regretting not having tried.

robcat2075
Hey Will, I don't have any money to Kickstart you but i can contribute something useful... if you can use it, I'll do one minute of animation for "Tar of Zandoria"

There are some strings attached...

- it needs to be a contiguous, self-contained scene, not scattered shots, so even if the rest of the movie doesn't get done I have something watchable.
- i have to like the scene and the audio track.
- I'd prefer something without dialog
- the scene's other assets, like the set, are done, so even if the rest of the movie doesn't get finished, I can at least render out my part and it will look done.
- the characters need to be appropriately rigged for what needs to be done.
- I can show my work at any time to anyone. I don't have to keep it under wraps until the movie is finished
- I tend to work erratically on things like this, with long periods of no visible progress. You're fine with that.
- other conditions I haven't thought of yet.
Fuchur
Hm, I am too young to really oversee the results of such a decission, but if you are not happy with your job because it is just not what you want to do, you've got the funds and you like to do it, why not do it?
I would maybe speak with my employer first if for example the workload could be lowered or if there is another job which is not that challenging if I was in your situation, but if that is not an option, why not just do what you want to do? We all have just one life and if you don't do it in this one, when should you?

Jeff Lew did it and if you are good enough (like Jeff and I think you are too) you can get back into the business if you wish to later on. Jeff Lew made his movie and worked on Transformers 2 and 3 and Tron Legacy afterwards again...

So if you can do it now and you are not happy with what it is like now, go and become happy... that is the right of each of us!

See you and wish you the best with that!
*Fuchur*
John Bigboote
Tennessee, right? I could do that. Gotta watch the Ramen... killer salt content. Can we build a 'still' out back, or do you already have one? I just took a job, and am now enjoying 'second thoughts'... 2 hours per day on the road will be the death of me. Count me in.
Vertexspline
William-

This is the age old problem for folks who like to toil in this garden. It takes a lot of time. And time that if you are working full time for others you will not ever get to use. The flip side it usually pays the bills for you and whoever else you care take for.

Jumping ship is not a easy decision to make. One I could not make myself right now for sure but the idea of working all your time at something you love is pretty compelling and I would be envious.

A tough choice indeed. Good luck either way.
Roger
I have to say unless you have a built-in fan base already, its going to be really hard to realize a fully funded Kickstarter campaign. I have had virtually no results from mine. But I don't have it in front of enough eyeballs and haven't figured out a way to drive traffic to it.

If you already have some sort of online presence with a significant following then you probably would do ok. But if your webpage is getting like a couple dozen hits a month, I would not be terribly optimistic.

I wish you luck but there seems to be a certain degree of randomness in what gets funded.
Roger
BTW unless you plan on paying for dialysis at some point, bulk beans and rice would be healthier for you than Ramen (you could always ditch the flavor packs, I guess). You would of course need to supplement this with appropriate vegetables to avoid scurvy. Yes, I've thought about this a lot. smile.gif
zandoriastudios
Robcat-- I'll definately take you up on that ( when I have assets ready to go!).
Ok ...maybe not ramen--but I can make pretty decent pho soup!
Scurvy....hmmmm--will orange and black tea counteract?
johnl3d
I know how you feel right now working 50 hours weeks solving other peoples problems leaves little time for anything I want to do
robcat2075
Is there something dangerous about ramen? unsure.gif

I just bought a box. ohmy.gif
Roger
Its not the Ramen in and of itself that is dangerous - although a diet solely of Ramen, while it might keep you full, would leave you with severe deficiencies in nutrition.

The danger with a diet heavy in Ramen is the amount of sodium in the flavor packets. Each flavor packet has about 1600mg of sodium, or like 2/3 your daily sodium intake. If you are subsisting on the stuff its bad for your kidneys and blood pressure.

If you insist on using the flavor packet, try using only half. Or maybe make home made sauces to go with it. When I was broker-than-broke, I used to eat Ramen with cheap spaghetti sauce. Ramen is also good with fried egg whites (kinda like a fried rice with noodles instead of rice).

Just about any citrus fruit will prevent scurvy. You would probably want to have an orange or two a week, along with a multi-vitamin (just in case).
Would probably be best to supplement with whatever other cheap fresh or frozen vegetables and fruits you could find.
robcat2075
Mine comes in a styrofoam cup that you add hot water too and already has the flavor stuff in it so I can't edit that out.

But fortunately it only has 47% of daily sodium ration. yay.gif
Walter Baker
Boy can I relate to the same Will, start working at 16, just to have a job so ya can have a car to chase girls.....next thing your 55 working the same stuff, and dealing with people that have brown nosed their way into positions and only kiss butt to keep their jobs.

Having finally found the things you really want and enjoy doing but not connecting the dot's enough to be able to make a living with it.

Gotta just keep learning and trying maybe one day the dots will make a spline. LOL

I bet most of the folks here feel or have felt the same.
Wildsided
I'm not in entirely the same boat but the results are similar.

I lost my job due to some mental health issues and was unable to find another job (a. because there's no work out there right now and b. because no one wants to hire a guy who's been fired over his mental health)

So I decided to do something I love doing and the Epic Gamin' webshow was born. Like Roger said it's difficult to get a fan base going, but if your stuff is good then people will watch it. E.G's viewership has been rising steadily over the past few months and I envision things will improve greatly this year.

The downside is that until the show starts making serious money (I've made some money just not a lot) then our household has effectively one income. I've been extremely lucky in that my wife has complete faith in my ability to make this venture work, but if I'd been on my own there'd have just been no way. Also due to the 1 income situation we have no money for luxuries. We can't just go to the store and buy a new DVD or Game etc without thinking about it. It's hard and very frustrating at times.

So what am I saying here? Well following your dreams is awesome, I enjoy doing what I do every single day. But without my wife the dream would be a nightmare. Sadly Money rules 90% of our lives and if you don't have the money to follow your dream or if you're happy with your lifestyle then I wouldn't recommend it.
Rodney
I think you just need a vacation Will. wink.gif
That and seeing a little creative progress will go a long way to getting you back on track.

I'm not sure what good I'd be to you in a production environment but I'd be more than willing to sign on.

Sleep on it.
You can have the best of both worlds and eat more than ramen!





detbear
Hey Will,

You gotta keep that dream going man. Don't let the day job strike you down. Most of us are there in that boat.

Pick a sequence, choose a few people here to help iron it out(If you don't pick me I understand). And make it fantabulous. Then stab it out from there. I would love to help you for Romen. I can certainly offer a similar deal as Robcat. (Again, if you don't select me, I understand) Just don't give up on your vision. It has great potential. Keep the team of people small and in good communication.

Heck...develop the fight sequence you've been boarding out. That could be used for a cool teaser/ trailer.

I would suggest that each animator be given short enough shot(s) so that they can re-do them to your liking/ artistic vision if need be. Plus shorter sequences allow for feature polish. Much of my film was sped up with poor polish or less than I originally hoped for.

William D.
mouseman
First question: How many hours per week are you working now? If it's more than 40, do what you have to do to change that. (If you are a manager, DELEGATE. Make other people responsible for things.)

Second question: How much time are you willing and able to dedicate to this hobby (before it's a full time job)? In other words, how much responsibility (e.g. family and chores, etc.) do you have outside of work? How much of that time can you dedicate?

Third question: Who are you working with? I believe working on your own is the wrong approach to get anything of significance done.

Fourth question: Do you have a good workflow and pipeline that you can produce consistently?

I'd say don't take the plunge until you are already working a reasonable number of hours per week at your day job, you have a reasonable percentage of your non-work hours to dedicate to animation, and you are working with other people on animation, and have proven you can make regular progress on your animation projects.

If you take the leap without having proven your abilities to produce to yourself, you might find yourself wasting time and not getting any closer to your goals. I think there are many benefits to working with other people (quick summary: meeting regularly makes you feel obligated to have something to show; you help each other get through hard spots; you come up with better ideas; you can do more; you don't have to be the guy that knows everything).

I agree about the getting older stuff. I'm almost 43. I don't yet (and may never) have the skills that you or Robcat or John Bigboote (and a number of others) have, but I really understand your desire.

I suggest getting these four areas together and proven as quickly as possible. Take a small leap and prove the model. Find and work with other people that are really good; don't just have everyone do their own part, but actually collaborate. Do at least one short together. Then decide to make the final jump.
fae_alba
QUOTE(zandoriastudios @ Jan 6 2012, 11:32 AM) *
Yeah--not something too take lightly....But you can get comfortable with just doing your job, and before you know it your are 45 years old, and you haven't achieved your purpose in life.

What I've GOT to do is rethink my priorities--even if it means taking a different position, job, or just striking out on my own. It is sucking my soul out of me!!!



45?!? 45?!? try 49..try working 2 jobs just to get by (barely) try paying college tuition bills for 4 people, with another starting up in a year. Try getting a job offer for $100 an hour, for six months. Only hitch, is it's in Boston, and I'm in Albany, NY, so I'd have to drive 4 hours there, put myself up for 4 days, away from home and hearth. Pay my own health insurance, taxes (%40 of gross) then run the risk of being unemployed after wards. After considering all that, believe it or not, I think I have to pass on the gig; risks are way too much, keeping in mind I have a family to look after. My current job has me working every day (worked over Christmas as well as New Years without so much as a thank you), had to give up a weeks worth of scheduled vacation for my daughters' wedding. Hate the job, hate the schedule, but it pays the bills.

Will, your project is great, your art is fantastic. I've watched you develop it for quite some time. If you have money in the bank to pay the bills, keep the lights on, if you think you can turn Zandoria into a viable business entity, go for it. Wish I could do the same. At some point down the road, we all are going to look back on our lives and wonder if we really enjoyed living it, or regret the missed opportunities. Believe it or not, I started typing this response intending to consul you to keep the job, and carve out time on the side; but now, if you can swing it, go for it. You never know, you might be able to parley it into a silver screen project.
robcat2075
Disclaimer: my offer to animate should not be taken as an incitement to quit your day job. Not just yet. rolleyes.gif
zandoriastudios
Good advice all around...
I won't " just quit"--but maybe if I can get this scene finished, it will make me feel better. Once I have something to show, then a kickstarter campaign won't seem like such a longshot...
HomeSlice
I'd go for a ramen and pho soup eating animation commune in Chattanooga smile.gif I might have to introduce some fresh vegetables though. I've lived the Bohemian lifestyle since I was 19. It has it's pluses and minuses.

Pluses:
* Freedom. You can pretty much do want you want, when you want ... as long as all you want is to do art or spend time in nature.
* You can work in your pajamas.
* You don't have to look presentable, ever.
* You can keep really strange hours.
* It is much easier and enjoyable to work long hours when you're not working for someone else.
* You can work late into the night and then just stumble into the next room and fall into bed. No commuting or fighting traffic!!
* You run into some really interesting off-the-wall people.
* You don't have to worry about if your girlfriend/wife just loves you for your status/money.

Minuses:
* You have to do your own cooking. Eating out and buying boxed/frozen/processed foods gets expensive, fast.
* Say goodbye to that shiny new car with the $500/mo payments and insurance up the wazoo.
* No health insurance or retirement plan.
* Any classy woman who enjoys spending time with you is not interested in a serious relationship, and any woman who wants a serious relationship will turn out to be insane.
* You end up doing a lot more physical work, like hauling your own trash and making your own repairs.
* People look at you different when you are not in "the system".
* You still have to make money from time to time.


Helpful Tips:
* Buy an older car with cash. You won't have to worry about car payments and the only insurance you need is liability insurance. With an older car, repair and maintenance is usually cheaper than a full insurance package would be anyway.
* If you live out in the sticks, you can take a pee off your own front porch if you want to ... just sayin'.
* Learn to cook! (but it sounds like you got that covered)
* The only monthly bills that are essential are electricity, gas, water, phone (without any extras) and internet. Jetison everything else.
* Cable TV will only keep you from doing what you love. Rent a movie if you need a fix.
* Learn to love maintaining a wood stove.
* Start practicing yoga/tai chi/chi gong/ or a non-violent martial art. Do it religiously. This is your new health insurance.
* Set yourself up for a Bohemian lifestyle *Before* you quit your day job. Your old bills and spending habits will suck your savings dry faster than you think.
jakerupert
Hi Homeslice,


Very good list all around!

just let me add my two cents to that topic:

>You have to do your own cooking. Eating out and buying boxed/frozen/processed foods gets expensive, fast.


<just as a diversity to Will`s ramen cooking plan I like to share hear my cheap cooking solution:

just cook a bunch of fresh potatoes and then together with butter eat them with some tincan fish (sardinas)
or an avocado or some cottage cheese with herbs.
Guess that would be a quite healthy variation once in a while to just noodles.
Then as a reward you could go to a steakhouse once in a while.

Since in the evening I always eat good dark bread (which you are lacking in the US as far as I know ) with cheese and ham etc.
and drink a pure beer I dont feel that I am missing nutrition that way.
zandoriastudios
At the end of yet another stressful week--just now had time to check this thread. It is almost 6:00 and I'm still at the office! I did make some Pho soup last night though smile.gif
fae_alba
QUOTE(zandoriastudios @ Jan 13 2012, 05:48 PM) *
At the end of yet another stressful week--just now had time to check this thread. It is almost 6:00 and I'm still at the office! I did make some Pho soup last night though smile.gif



dude, get the hell out of there. There is such a thing as home work balance (even though I don't pay much attention to that myself)!
tomross2002
Note to self: start food and dietary supplement delivery company geared towards starving animators....
MikeV
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Jan 7 2012, 12:58 AM) *
Is there something dangerous about ramen? unsure.gif

I just bought a box. ohmy.gif


I dunno, I personally buy the "10 for a buck" deals and then use the noodles as "single serving" portions, dressing them up with other stuff. Sometimes I sautee frozen vegetables in with the noodles (and a chopped onion if I have 'em around), and cook it in a balsamic reduction (sounds fancy, but it's not), sometimes with my version of lo-mein sauce, sometimes with herbs and butter and so forth. Sometimes, I will use the seasoning packet, crack an egg into it and add some soy sauce to make a sort of ad hoc chicken egg drop soup.

You can do so much with the stuff treating it like an ingredient, rather than a meal unto itself. Not that there's nothing wrong with just having it with the seasoning packet (though it's not the greatest for your salt intake o.o).
MikeV
QUOTE(zandoriastudios @ Jan 6 2012, 10:38 AM) *
I've become very frustrated by my slow progress on this project... The trouble is my day job has become a career, and is now demanding too much of my time. I was just a designer..then the Creative Director...now the Director of Design and Engineering. The pay is good--but I do not enjoy what I do....
On my wallpaper of my workstation, TAR is looking back at me, and I just feel depressed that I am not doing what I ought to be doing.

I need to start a kickstarter campaign, and try to raise enough money to fund the project. Get some like-minded artists, and go at this full-time. I feel like I have something unique that I can bring to the world through art, that I will never get that fullfillment through my work career. I am not getting any younger....
Maybe, I should just buy some cases of Ramen noodles and "just do it"!

I could even turn my house into an hippie animation commune!! Thats how radical a leap that I feel I need to make yay.gif yay.gif


Advice appreciated...Anyone wanting to join Zandoria Studios? [must work for ramen noodles huh.gif huh.gifsmile.gif ]


Man, if I had more experience and skill with A:M and could actually contribute something meaningfully to it, I'd love to join up with ya on that.

I know the feeling you have... about "not getting any younger" - I'm going on 40 myself, which isn't "old", but it's "getting up there". It's weird to even hear/see myself say it lol. I still feel like I'm 20. I keep thinking, though, "I don't want to get 20 years down the road and kick myself for not trying".

It's easier to give someone else advice when it's not your own livelihood being put on the line, but man.. if it's where your heart is and you feel it's something you need to do, I'd say go for it. Kickstarter is the perfect place to go for that, I think.

Best of luck to you, however you choose to pursue it!
Kamikaze
After reading this thread ... I don't think I will complain about my piddly ass job ..... I average about 36 hr a week, make only 11 dolls per hr. (get a good education ...and then there is still no guarantee, no I am a HS drop out of the 70s) I sit on my ass and watch TV for a living .....yes I bring my laptop with AM on it and spend all night figuring out one little problem ....so I don't get much done but ti passes the time ....... I'm 56 and I watch over 60 to 90 year olds, and many of them get around better than I do .. of course heart troubles and 1 heart attack may be the reason, Doc told me the grave yard shift will put you in an early grave.(25 years of grave shift and aint dead ..yet!)..he advised me to get a day job .... I can't do any of the day jobs I qualify , education wise, for...to physical..that is if there are any of those left ......

I know it wasn't the purpose of this thread to make me feel better about my situation, but it did.......but I also have empathy (is that the right word to use?) for those of you who feel stuck in that old work rut ...... Ive had a few year of those work hour under my belt....
Simon Edmondson
William
I don't know if you ever read the magazine 3DWorld ?
Itsa UK publication but available all over. There was an article recently about a man in south America ( I think, but not sure which country ) and the short he had made and put out on the festival circuit yo some success. He too was stuck in a job he didn't like and wanted to make a short, He saved up everything he could for some years while preparing it, then quit and went toi live in a very rural lpcation with minimal expenses, to spend all his time on the short.
I'm not suggesting that would work for you or that you should follow that path but, might it be something that would interest you? If so I can look the article up for you and pass on the reference ?
regards
simon
robcat2075
QUOTE(Simon Edmondson @ Jul 20 2012, 02:44 PM) *
... There was an article recently about a man in south America....


I recall a similar situation some years ago about a guy who stuck himself in his cabin in Alaska with his PC and Lightwave and cranked out a short, some sort of mystical wolf thing. He got some favorable articles written about him and he got i on some festivals but it didn't result in any financial boon for him.

Selling an independent project is just plain tough.
Simon Edmondson
I recall a similar situation some years ago about a guy who stuck himself in his cabin in Alaska with his PC and Lightwave and cranked out a short, some sort of mystical wolf thing. He got some favorable articles written about him and he got i on some festivals but it didn't result in any financial boon for him.
Selling an independent project is just plain tough.
[/quote]


You are correct, there was a similar article a few years back about the man in Alaska. He had two PC's as I recall, used one to animate on and the other to render.The impressive ( to me at least ) part of that article was his approach to the work and the management/organisation of the project. Didn't Jeff Lew do a similar thing, give up working for a tear to produce his personal project. Although he had already established a track record by then I think ?

The decision rests on personal circumstances and responsibilities. If your only responsibility is to yourself and you are prepared to live very frugally while doing it then it may be a viable option to get it done and use that as a platform to make more? If a family, mortgage or other commitments are part of the equation then there are less options. I would not dare to suggest one way or the other how the decision should fall.

Have you read the book " Rebel without a crew" by Robert Rodriquez ? Its about how he made 'El Mariachi' on a budget of $5.000, He did it by taking part in medical experiments testing drugs ro raise the money and used his time at the test centre to write the script and plan it all. It worked for him but that is a very extreme way of going about it and not for everybody. Certainly not for me on the drug testing side...
simon
robcat2075
QUOTE(Simon Edmondson @ Jul 21 2012, 05:30 AM) *
Didn't Jeff Lew do a similar thing, give up working for a tear to produce his personal project. Although he had already established a track record by then I think ?


And I think he regrets doing Killer Bean 3. Too much time spent not making money and no money made on it once it was done.


QUOTE
Have you read the book " Rebel without a crew" by Robert Rodriquez ? Its about how he made 'El Mariachi' on a budget of $5.000, He did it by taking part in medical experiments testing drugs ro raise the money and used his time at the test centre to write the script and plan it all. It worked for him but that is a very extreme way of going about it and not for everybody. Certainly not for me on the drug testing side...


I watched El Mariachi and I couldn't share the enthusiasm the critics had for it. But I guess it got someone's attention.




itsjustme
QUOTE(Simon Edmondson @ Jul 21 2012, 05:30 AM) *
Have you read the book " Rebel without a crew" by Robert Rodriquez ? Its about how he made 'El Mariachi' on a budget of $5.000, He did it by taking part in medical experiments testing drugs ro raise the money and used his time at the test centre to write the script and plan it all. It worked for him but that is a very extreme way of going about it and not for everybody. Certainly not for me on the drug testing side...
simon


He still has scars from the experiments...not a way I would go, but some people might think it's worth it.
Simon Edmondson
He still has scars from the experiments...not a way I would go, but some people might think it's worth it.
[/quote]


Certainly not for me either.
The main thing, for me, about the book, was what he managed to achieve on a very small budget. $5,000 I think ? That was sometime ago, so you would need more now. Animation is much more expensive than live action because of the technical and human resources involved but a lot is still possible. One note of caution though; If the initial project is delivered on a very tight budget. Will future backers assume that level to be maintained in subsequent work ? If you've proved you can live on Ramen noodles for a year, will you be expected to continue to do so ?
simon
MikeV

There's also the story of Kevin Smith and how he made Clerks using a bunch of Credit Cards he'd applied for and gotten "as a goof".

largento
I wasn't aware of it, but Killer Bean Forever was released a few months ago as an Android game called "Killer Bean Unleashed." It's had over a million downloads, but the game is free. I'm thinking he might have worked to create this just as a promotional tool so that he could sell more DVDs.

I'd hope that he doesn't regret having done Killer Bean Forever. He took a chance and did something he wanted to do. He seemed to be able to jump back onto the work wagon afterwards.

I suspect he may have run into the same problem I've run into. I happily killed myself to create Stalled Trek, but now that I'm in the phase of trying to promote and sell it, I'm miserable. I did a small comic book show over the weekend that I found out about at the last minute. It was exhausting to me and I told the guy next to me, "It's so much fun making these, but it's no fun trying to sell them to people." I'm not a salesman. I should be out looking for every opportunity to sell this, but I'm naturally an introvert and making cold calls to possible outlets is excruciatingly difficult.

I can wear all of the creative caps, but the business caps don't fit me at all.

"If you build it, they will come" only works *inside* the movies. :-)

[EDIT] Digging deeper, I see that Killer Bean Forever is advertised as purchasable via the game for $6.99. It's unclear whether this is a digital download or just a link to order the DVD from Lew's website.

[EDIT2] Found a forum thread. Jeff Lew is doing the game himself and it is physical DVDs (since he's still trying to get rid of them all.) The forum doesn't continue past March and he seems frustrated with Android (apparently problems getting game to run on so many different devices.) Still no iOS version, which makes me wonder if things have stalled completely.
Crush
QUOTE
from Ernesttx:
My plan:
1.)
1st year (2011)- out of debt and all the software and hardware that I might need:
Software - editing (vegas pro), compositing (fusion), 3D (AM, Blender,Messiah, Vue10, SynthEyes2011, etc) - also learning period for software
Hardware - T2i, JVC 3CCD HD camcorder (for vfx), audio recorders, etc.

2.)
2nd year - 2012 - purchase land for studio (will do that end of this month)
during this year - build studio (not a huge place, just something to setup shop and work out of)
everything will be paid for in 2012
will rent out studio as well, as I plan it to be a small backlot for others to film their projects
set up Roku animation channel for subscription based revenue (a dream but what's life without one)

3.)
3rd year - save money and network like crazy, create roadmap for projects, take on odd vfx jobs, editing, animation, etc.

4.)
2014 (or 2013) - will be working for myself smile.gif


Hey, this sound very similar like my plan - only in a different rank
4.) I first made this and got in contact with future clients, competitors and for possible cooperations
3.) Still networking - money comes in from normal project work (no gfx or animations)
2.) My business rooms & Studio were very important - theyīre only 2 stairs away downwards from home (in the same house) and I can even use my WLan & telephone there.
1.) Then I bought all kind of necessary software & licenses, collecting tools free or also commercial and started to learn the tools and the technical background

Step 4-2 was in the first 2 years and the last year step 1. I will continue working with a local animation studio in cooperation, soon (but sadly no animations - itīs some kind of CG picture software development). But Iīm sure Iīll learn some things from their 25 CG artists in my spare time (this was an important agreement for the cooperation). The next year I concentrate most on learning all about creating interesting stories, modeling and animation.
Within the next 1-2 years some kind of demoreel shall be produced and within the next 3 years at least 1 short. Because I work on my own I can take all time I need for my destinations - otherwise this way wouldnīt be possible.

My old work will perhaps also be continued besides, but the animation and modeling will be the next big thing in my live thatīs sure - I ever wanted to do this. Besides my work doing animations and special effects was ever a dream during the last 25 years. Now the time is right to do it with the right power of computers and the quality of the software I need for all I ever wanted. The main reason for work is money and I know I can do more money with the other things, but nothing else makes so much fun until now. It can be that Iīm not getting as far as Iīd like to - but in the worst case I have a hobby for spare time and can use the rooms and hardware for other projects.

If you donīt feel good on your work as employee you shouldnīt stay too long or youīll regret your life. Itīs important to chose then a finacial secure way to start a business in small steps without big personal risks then its a good feeling to work for yourself. You should always do what satisfies and makes fun. I wish you big luck with Tar and your studio.
Simon Edmondson
I don't know if this is appropriate, if not my apologies.
In the comic I mentioned the other week, 3D World, there is an article this month on using game engines as a means of making content in real time and how that is done to make films with ? It mentions particulary a package called Cinebox which has been developed between Intel and Dreamworks ( although I may be getting that mixed up with another product of the same type. )

I am far from being a technical bod but it struck me when reading it this morning that it might be a way for you to get your project done and out there ? The essence of it, if I understood it, was to model the settings and characters outside of the package, import them in using the software development kit and it would render out in real time using the game engine. I'm sure the article will be online if you are interested. If not, my apologies.
regards
simon
Crush
QUOTE(Simon Edmondson @ Aug 13 2012, 04:22 PM) *
I don't know if this is appropriate, if not my apologies.
In the comic I mentioned the other week, 3D World, there is an article this month on using game engines as a means of making content in real time and how that is done to make films with ? It mentions particulary a package called Cinebox which has been developed between Intel and Dreamworks ( although I may be getting that mixed up with another product of the same type. )

I am far from being a technical bod but it struck me when reading it this morning that it might be a way for you to get your project done and out there ? The essence of it, if I understood it, was to model the settings and characters outside of the package, import them in using the software development kit and it would render out in real time using the game engine. I'm sure the article will be online if you are interested. If not, my apologies.
regards
simon


This sounds like Machstudio & Source Moviemaker - or are there any differences?
phatso
You know what? If you do quit to work on your animation project full time, it will stop being "what I want to do." Anything a person does all the time becomes boring, even sex - and once you have no income, you will feel compelled to work more quickly than you'd like. When you stop pushing the project and it starts pushing you, it's no longer fun, and you'll come to hate it.

Alternate game: stay at your job, but work less. I don't know if you can get away with telling your employer, "I can work here half time or zero time, take your pick." You might plead medical necessity, real or invented, to reduce the chances your employer will decide you're just being a prick and fire you out of annoyance. Then you'll have about as much free time to work on the animation project as you can handle without the juices drying up.

This approach has saved my sanity. I've been working on a writing/animating project for years. If I had not done it, and worked full time at a regular job, I'd have gone crazy. If I had quit to work on my project, I would have gone broke long ago. This way I have enough income to plow on with the project for as long as it takes.
Simon Edmondson

This sounds like Machstudio & Source Moviemaker - or are there any differences?
[/quote]


I don't know.It was not an are I wanted to pursue myself so did not remember all the details. I will try to find out and get to you.
simon
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