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Hash, Inc. Forums > Featured > Work In Progress / Sweatbox
rusty
Hi,

I hope everyone is well and happy. I'm too close to and involved with the model in the attached image to be a good judge anymore. I'm looking for feedback on what will make it look more realistic.

Thanks for any help you can give!

Rusty

Click to view attachment
itsjustme
QUOTE(rusty @ Sep 24 2011, 03:02 AM) *
Hi,

I hope everyone is well and happy. I'm too close to and involved with the model in the attached image to be a good judge anymore. I'm looking for feedback on what will make it look more realistic.

Thanks for any help you can give!

Rusty

Click to view attachment


I'm no expert, so my recommendations are suspect, Rusty.

I like him. The thing I'm thinking is that the shine could be muted some and then maybe some SSS for the skin and slight transparency on the hair.

Great stuff!
Fuchur
QUOTE(itsjustme @ Sep 24 2011, 12:32 AM) *
QUOTE(rusty @ Sep 24 2011, 03:02 AM) *
Hi,

I hope everyone is well and happy. I'm too close to and involved with the model in the attached image to be a good judge anymore. I'm looking for feedback on what will make it look more realistic.

Thanks for any help you can give!

Rusty

Click to view attachment


I'm no expert, so my recommendations are suspect, Rusty.

I like him. The thing I'm thinking is that the shine could be muted some and then maybe some SSS for the skin and slight transparency on the hair.

Great stuff!


SSS should be a start and you could try another lightening. AO coul dbe a start too.

See you
*Fuchur*
Rodney
Hey Rusty!

Nice looking model!

One small thing you might do would be to paint/darken the texture under his hair so the flesh color doesn't show through.
I know one technique (I believe it's on one of Bill Young's video tutorials) was to use an image of the hair itself (standing straight up and rendered from the top) as a decal for the skin underneath. This makes it appear as if there is more hair follicles growing from odd render where the skin underneath shows through. In some cases you can even make the particle hair less dense too.

Edit: I seem to recall someone narrating the tutorial as I can almost hear him talking about single random purple hairs mixed in with the other hair strands to complete the effect. Perhaps it was Hash Inc's Tech Talk video on hair.
MMZ_TimeLord
Welcome back Rusty!!! Great to see you again... I too have been away FAR too long!

I agree with everyone else, something to add texture to the scalp under the hair and dull the skin. SSS would be good, but I'd keep it a bit muted. Every time I see SSS it seems set to the point where it looks like wax instead of skin! Conservative with the SSS! AO is a good idea to level out the overall lighting though.

Cheers!
robcat2075
I like that! I like the sag on the eye lids and lots of other details.

The wrinkle lines are something I was thinking about just this morning... they look a bit too wide.

Darkening the scalp would be something to try and on the hair... to avoid the severe doll hair look try fading in the transparency from 100% at the root AND/OR fading in the thickness from 0cm at the root.

He does look a bit shiny.

add on: is it possible the inside corners of his eyes are too far out?
Paul Forwood
Hi, Rusty. Nice model!

I think the ears are a little too flat. Perhaps the tops could be pulled out just slightly. I don't know. Look in the mirror. wink.gif
The frown lines look a bit too wide, as Robcat mentioned, and the speculars could be toned down. Looks great already though.
John Bigboote
I agree with the ears being too closed in on the head... and SSS would help too. My eyes are drawn to the inside of the nostrils... perhaps a 'dark' decal there would help. Are you using Muhair shader on the hair? Also, maybe the shirtline could use a little more detail, maybe apply a cloth texture instead of the roughness setting it has. And the lips look too close to the skin color...

WELCOME BACK, RUSTEEEE!

New to SSS? Try these settings... 3, 3.25, 3.5... 140%
Gerry
Hi rusty, nice model! What everyone else said above, but also add some specularity to the eyeballs.
rusty
Everyone!

Thanks for all the awesome suggestions! All everyone of them sounds like great ideas. These will take some time.

One thing I forgot to mention was that I'm still back on version 14--I definitely want to upgrade but... can't give up my render farm; too much $$ invested in the PCs. Fortunately, I believe all of your suggestions are possible in v14 however, if you know of anything I might encounter in v14 let me know.

Also I have no experience with SSS or AO--tried both out back in the day but I imagine they'll take some playing around with. BTW, are both 'animation' features? I've seen them used in stills but can't recall ever seeing them used in an animation.

Really great hearing from all of you!!

Cheers,
Rusty
thumperness
Hey Rusty,

Most any head model looks good to me because I have not attempted them yet. Yours is better than most.

I always seem to see completely different things than most of the others. What sticks out to me, is how the shirt looks painted on. It's following every contour of the neck muscles.

Have you played with cloth yet? cool.gif
mouseman
I noticed thumperness's suggestion about the shirt, as well. The other thing that strikes me is that his nose appears smoothly textured, but the rest of his face is bumpy. I usually notice the bumps and pits on someone's nose and the cheeks beside the nose before similar things on the rest of their face. Also, for the age I suspect he is, I'd expect to see a little more crease in the line between the side of the nose and the side of his mouth.

Overall, a really good model.

I'm glad to see you return to the forum! (As well as Jody!) It's great to have you all back.
robcat2075
On the fine wrinkle lines... In his "Digital Lighting and Rendering" book Jeremy Birne suggests to add some red at the bottom of the wrinkles. Same color all the way through is unnatural.
TheSpleen
I think it looks good as it is
rusty
QUOTE(thumperness @ Sep 24 2011, 01:23 PM) *
Hey Rusty,

Most any head model looks good to me because I have not attempted them yet. Yours is better than most.

I always seem to see completely different things than most of the others. What sticks out to me, is how the shirt looks painted on. It's following every contour of the neck muscles.

Have you played with cloth yet? cool.gif


There is a CD on How to Model a face (or really, a head)--can't for the life of me remember the Hash artist who put it out. Without that I too could never model a head or face. Adopting this construction means you can have a flattening template (adjusted for each face) which means you can have standardized decals and haircaps. If that makes sense. Agree with dicky t-shirt (it goes under other wardrobe).

Cloth? If you want to call over a thousand manhours 'playing'. :-)

Rusty
rusty
More good feedback!!

Thanks!
Rusty
Vertexspline
hey rusty----welcome on your return (can relate well to that). The model is first off super . I feel odd giving any comments to someone who is well above my skills here but i guess i know what I might like even if cannot make it yet .

To me the skin has a certain rubber like look and maybe if the lips had a little more pink/red/purple etc that might be good. But gosh ---as it is right now ----mighty nice !!


Rich
Zaryin
Hey Rusty, good to see you.

I would add some reflection, sss, ao and maybe turn down the bump amount. I would also add an enviromental spere that could be used for reflections, but this is all for stills. I don't know what I would do for animations.
robcat2075
Rusty... is that an actual person you've modeled?

If so, you might take a pic of him with good light and start comparing that and your render and say "what's different between the two and how can I eliminate that?"
rusty
QUOTE(Paul Forwood @ Sep 24 2011, 07:51 AM) *
Hi, Rusty. Nice model!

I think the ears are a little too flat. Perhaps the tops could be pulled out just slightly. I don't know. Look in the mirror. wink.gif
The frown lines look a bit too wide, as Robcat mentioned, and the speculars could be toned down. Looks great already though.


what do you mean by 'frown lines'?

Rusty
rusty
QUOTE(Vertexspline @ Sep 25 2011, 12:50 PM) *
hey rusty----welcome on your return (can relate well to that). The model is first off super . I feel odd giving any comments to someone who is well above my skills here but i guess i know what I might like even if cannot make it yet .

To me the skin has a certain rubber like look and maybe if the lips had a little more pink/red/purple etc that might be good. But gosh ---as it is right now ----mighty nice !!


Rich


The rubber like look of the skin has always been a problem for me. Hopefully a little SSS and specularity adjustments may help. Also I may have over done the 'softing' bump maps... maybe you don't need this in AM????

Thanks,
Rusty
rusty
QUOTE(Zaryin @ Sep 25 2011, 01:22 PM) *
Hey Rusty, good to see you.

I would add some reflection, sss, ao and maybe turn down the bump amount. I would also add an enviromental spere that could be used for reflections, but this is all for stills. I don't know what I would do for animations.


Hi Zaryin!

Thanks for the suggestions.

"...but this is all for stills. I don't know what I would do for animations."

Is there any particular reason you said this? I appriciate and support forum rules so use rusty@znet.com if needed.

Cheers,
Rusty
rusty
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Sep 25 2011, 01:29 PM) *
Rusty... is that an actual person you've modeled?

If so, you might take a pic of him with good light and start comparing that and your render and say "what's different between the two and how can I eliminate that?"


If I knew a way to duplicate lighting between AM and reality I would!

Rusty
rusty
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Sep 25 2011, 09:07 AM) *
On the fine wrinkle lines... In his "Digital Lighting and Rendering" book Jeremy Birne suggests to add some red at the bottom of the wrinkles. Same color all the way through is unnatural.


Don't happen to know the page # do you?

Rusty
robcat2075
2nd edition, pg 153

i found it by going to the Amazon page and did "Search inside" on "wrinkles"
NancyGormezano
As others have mentioned the color is too uniform, too overall crayola "flesh" or play-doh putty looking.

Don't forget that skin tones include blues, greens, yellow, purple, crimson undertones, depending on how thick the skin, how close to the surface are the veins, as well as discolorizations for imperfections, sun damage, alcohol/drug abuse, ethnic group

Here's a good tutorial for adding color to the face
Zaryin
QUOTE(rusty @ Sep 25 2011, 03:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Zaryin @ Sep 25 2011, 01:22 PM) *
Hey Rusty, good to see you.

I would add some reflection, sss, ao and maybe turn down the bump amount. I would also add an enviromental spere that could be used for reflections, but this is all for stills. I don't know what I would do for animations.


Hi Zaryin!

Thanks for the suggestions.

"...but this is all for stills. I don't know what I would do for animations."

Is there any particular reason you said this? I appriciate and support forum rules so use rusty@znet.com if needed.

Cheers,
Rusty


Hey Rusty, no particular reason other than I only do stills. I am just assuming that things would be different when doing animation. Though since I don't do animation it might work exactly the same, haha.
tbenefi33
Wow now that an A+ on that one.
rusty
QUOTE(rusty @ Sep 25 2011, 02:09 PM) *
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Sep 25 2011, 09:07 AM) *
On the fine wrinkle lines... In his "Digital Lighting and Rendering" book Jeremy Birne suggests to add some red at the bottom of the wrinkles. Same color all the way through is unnatural.


Don't happen to know the page # do you?

Rusty


Yikes, my library's gotten out of date--got the first edition. :-(

Rusty
rusty
QUOTE(NancyGormezano @ Sep 25 2011, 02:35 PM) *
As others have mentioned the color is too uniform, too overall crayola "flesh" or play-doh putty looking.

Don't forget that skin tones include blues, greens, yellow, purple, crimson undertones, depending on how thick the skin, how close to the surface are the veins, as well as discolorizations for imperfections, sun damage, alcohol/drug abuse, ethnic group

Here's a good tutorial for adding color to the face


Thanks! Looks like it has a few things I can use. I started the face color map out with the skull, then the face muscles and ligaments, then major veins, then etc., etc., etc, --really way beyond anything sensible, LOL.

Rusty
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