Evaluate and critique please...
____________________________________________________________________

NetRender_Guide-Basic.pdf
NetRender_Guide-Advanced.pdf
____________________________________________________________________

EDIT: Updated on 09/12/2011
I have updated this to a PDF document.

Also, there is inclusion for how to set up NetRender on a single machine. Not how to run it, just set it up.

EDIT: Updated on 09/13/2011 - 09:32PM PST DOH! Minor boo-boo! Updated again.
Added a section for setting up multiple machines. This is based on my original idea of keeping the install directory for A:M in one place and only needing to update from there.

There were quite a number of obstructions due to the new security implementations within XP Service Pack 2 and in Windows 7. These required some 'creative' solutions so that things could work as they did in my previous tutorial.

EDIT: 09/16/2011 - Updated with a Basic Netrender guide for single machine setups only. Advanced guide to follow soon.

EDIT: 02/10/2012 - Updated the Basic Netrender guide a bit as well as added the rough draft of the Advanced guide.

EDIT: 02/12/2012 - Updated with links to the documents in THIS thread in the NetRender forum.

EDIT: 02/12/2012 - 03:47pm PST: Advanced document updated with "Running a NetRender Farm" section. Not quite complete, but a start.

Please give feedback!!!

More to come!

First, let me say, it's great to see you here in the forum again Jody. You have been missed!
You are off to a great start with this addition to TaoA:M and I'm not sure if the following is the type of feedback you want or if you are just running us through the basics. I assume here that you are trying to refine your text for inclusion in the new TaoA:M so that's why I'm adding this as feedback.

I'm excited by the possibilities that Netrender brings to A:M Users.
Animation:Master v16 ushers in a new age for A:M Users with Netrender presenting a powerful rendering capability.
Your effort to educate others will ensure everyone can take full advantage of the opportunity.

The following is something of a summary of what I gleaned out of what you've presented thus far and perhaps you can use it to measure any gap in how I interpreted it. You text is fine as is but I believe the most important consideration will be how to display the essential information graphically, interspersing the images with the text and/or via video. I do think the basic/common element of Netrender is now the single computer with multiple cores (every A:M User has this while not all have two or more). As such, everyone can take advantage of Netrender and exend that into multi-machine renderfarms. I know you said the How will come later and some of my edit likely pushes into that realm.

<Begin Edit>

Netrender
<Missing a general introduction and description of Netrender and what it's primary usage is... to save time... to render more quickly etc. The following text almost provides that description but not quite.>

How Netrender works:
A NetRender Farm is a collection of multiple computer CPU cores each working on a frame of the animation (job) you wish to render. The RenderServer continuously listens for the RenderMessengers, tracks what each is doing and assigns them tasks if they are available. The RenderMessengers inform the RenderServer of their current state, if they are available or busy and if they have experienced any errors. The RenderMessengers initiate a RenderSlave to render an image and then report the state of progress on that frame of animation back to the server.
___________________________________________________________________

Basics - Understanding a NetRender Farm

Components:
NetRender Node: a machine running one or more RenderMessenger Clients.
NetRender Server: a machine running the one copy of RenderServer. We'll just call it a Server.
<NetRender Messenger: a means to communicate between the Server and each Node?>
NetRender Slave: a process started by a RenderMessenger Client. This does the actual rendering.

Render Farm Requirements:
1. Animation:Master NetRender v16 or higher.
2. One or more Computers to run RenderServer, RenderMessenger and RenderSlave.
3. Ethernet Networking Router or Swtich. (Preferrably Gigabit Ethernet)
4. File server with redundant/mirrored storage (Optional: a dedicated machine used for file storage).

Example Renderfarm process (Step by Step):

• Configure and launch NetRender with one Server and four Nodes.
• Create a new job <view> and Identify the frames for the Server to render <view>.
• Add the Clients to be used for rendering <view>
• The Server begins assigning each Client one or a series of frames from the job to render.
• Each Client acknowledges the job assignment and launches the Slave to initiate the render.
• The Slave requests all the related project files from the File Server where they are stored.
• All files are located and loaded into memory and the Slave begins rendering the frames.
• The Client continuously reports back to the Server with the status of the Slave's progress.
• When a frame is completed, the Slave saves out the frame to the File Server and close.
• The Client will notify the Server that is again available to take a new piece of the job.
• Any errors during the render will also be reported back to the Server. Clients can crash or have machine failures.
• The Server keeps track of this too and can reassign a frame that has errored out or lost connection to the Client.
• When a Client becomes available the Server can assign the next frame to be rendered
  Differences in machine performance and animation frame composition will determine which machine finishes frames faster.

(Note: This gives us an idea of where we can anticipate problems and troubleshoot our use of Netrender. For instance, in cases where all the Project's files are not available in the indicated location...)

<End Edit>

Thanks for doing this Jody. It helps to hear from someone with your experience and success with Netrender.
I know I'll need Netrender in the future so I look forward to your updates.

Rodney,

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I'm mainly looking to see what needs refining and if the information is getting across before I make and publish a final document.

I see I have a bit of massaging to do. And, yes I planned on including quite a few screenshot images so that folks would be able to 'see' what was occurring.

I'll make some corrections in the OP and we'll see if that's good enough for the first section. Then I'll add a new section below that and continue to build the whole document.

Sound like a plan?

Awesome, Jody! You are the MAN! Yes, a screenshot or 2 will help greatly.

I've added to the document. I am getting near the tough stuff.

The best I can do is give some very basic information on Ethernet networking and sample setup configurations. I think that will have to do as a true lesson in Ethernet and Network Topology as well as Windows OS tweaking and security policies will be will beyond this document.

Stay Tuned!

Updated to a PDF document... See OP

Another snazzy update... soon to come. How to run this monster I've helped you create!

Thank you very much Jody .....

in the page#4 when you write 1 license = 6 PC's can I understand 1 license = 6 cores ? Because I'm able to use just 4 cores. If I try to use more than 4 cores, I receive an alert to enter in contact with Hash Inc.

Xtaz,

Is that four cores over four machines or four+ cores on a single unit? I was able to start six instances of RenderMessenger on my design PC without a problem. Did you have to put them into an active pool first?

Inquiring minds want to know...

EDIT: I see, when more than four are dropped into a job pool. Well, that sucks... I have six cores on my machine and can only utilize four?

Sorry Hash, but that seems a bit limited even for the web subscription.

Looks like I'll need to find out the versions for Netrender and amend my guide. *sigh*

Remember, NetRender used to be a $600 extra cost program. Now it's included free for up to 4 cores. That's huge. 90% of the customers probably have 2 cores at best.

Four cores for a $79 web sub is pretty good.

I don't know what the cost to upgrade past 4 cores is but I bet it's nowhere near $600 anymore

I guess I got spoiled with my $99 a year upgrade on the unlimited A:M.

I paid I think $299 for my initial A:M back in 1993 with a parallel port dongle and only $99 a year after... I have no idea how much I've spent to date.

I retract my previous statement though. The $79 web subscription only having a four Messenger limit is not a bad deal compared to other software by far.

I'll see if I can find out the limit (if any) on the CD version from Hash.

All,

So the word from Hash at this point in time is 4 Messenger Limit on the web subscription and 8 Messenger Limit on the CD Subscription.

However, they also mention they can add more to the limit at time of purchase, BUT they did not give me a price per addition.

Cheers!

Hi Robert ... the meaning of my question was to clarify the netrender guide, that's all. I absolutely agree with you "Four cores for a $79 web sub is pretty good."

Hi, Jody, lots of good information there! Of course I'm long on ideas but short on time and knowledge to help out, but here are some thoughts on it. As always, use what you think is worthwhile.

Idea 1: Before even talking about the single machine scenario, the current doc talks about a lot of networking theory that the single machine scenario doesn't for the most part need to worry about. It might be nice to first describe how to do NetRender on a single machine before the heavy-duty networking background information. In other words, sections ordered as follows:

1. What is NetRender
2. Basics - Understanding a Netrender Farm
3. Setting up NetRender - Single PC Example
4. Machine - Functional Guidelines
5. Netrender Farm Sizes - Design Guidelines
6. Ethernet - Understanding Simple Setup
7. Setting up Netrender - Multiple PC Example

Many people would only need to read sections 1, 2, and 3, and those steps would be not be wasted for anyone going on to do one of the multiple PC scenarios.

Idea 2: Regarding the port conflict, there could also be a conflict with any client program, because the ports used by RenderServer are not reserved. In other words, you might be able to run RenderServer for 6 months without a problem, and then all of a sudden any network client program (web browser, email client, etc.) is randomly assigned that port because it was not reserved. Although I haven't tried it yet, this post talks about a way of reserving ports.

(Off topic: I kind of wish RenderServer's config dialog would check for an existing reservation, verify that no running program is serendipitously using those ports, and then reserve the ports when the user sets the configuration; also, it would remove the old reservation when changing the setting.)

Idea 3: Many people might be reluctant to disable the firewall entirely, but rather just reconfigure it. I'm not familiar with doing that, but it might be worthwhile to add if we can find someone that has the know-how.

Idea 4: A troubleshooting section would be useful. When I first set up NetRender, I posted some problems I had and the workarounds I found (and I never did report them to A:M reports. Darn me). Maybe some of them would be appropriate for this guide?

Excellent points Mouseman! I think you are correct about some reorganizing. Maybe two guides? A simple one for single machine setups and an in-depth one for multiple machine setups.

Anyhoo... I'll get to work on those changes tomorrow. I'll also take a look at your posted problems and workarounds and see if they still apply.

As to the firewall setting changes, I can make a how-to on that, but it would be limited to XP (32 or 64 bit) and Windows 7. Nothing I have tested so far has been tried on Vista. If the installation of Vista is up to date with the Service pack(s), etc., it should be almost no different than the Windows 7 instructions.

Cheers!

Yes , i have to agree with mouseman. I fit his beginner bill with this and a easy faster read or guide to get just my four cores rendering would be great. And there are lots of quad core machines out there not to mention six (I have one of those as well ) and cheaper 8's coming very soon from amd (if not already here)

So at least for one sub you can get 4 cores rendering which would help a lot. I rendered a simple animated birthday card other day on one core took like 22 hours for 15 secs on 720 p. Was not complicated (can't do that yet) but would have been nice to cut to 7-8 (smiles.)

So I am sure lots of new folks would love a little guide to get netrender up to speed. And Netrender is a feature that could be a real boost to am sales IMHO. Time really is so valuable for everyone!

I see there is a NetRender "TechTalk" from 2005.

I haven't watched it, but perhaps Jody might take a look to see if enough of it is up-to-date so tht it can be pointed to as-is with maybe a few changes and corrections listed in an accompanying document.

Of course it doesn't cover the new multi-core situation at all.

Vertexspline, there are some threads around where basic operation is discussed so you can start using it now!

Robert---

will look through the search and see what I can come with...Its not like its urgent for me right now most of what I am doing is practicing various modeling items and rendering to take a look at it. But certainly will need it in future for more extensive work. smiles.


Rich

Unless you already have the 'ensharpen' codec installed from Camtasia, you won't be able to see the video. Also, it is a bit out of date, but does show some relevant information.

That being said, I've updated the OP with a "Netrender Guide - Basic.pdf" document. I'll continue to work on the "Advanced" version for those who are in a more studio like situation.

Cheers!

That's an impressive document Jody. Very nice!

For those that are looking for additional information don't forget the Netrender forum. A lot of the information is old but others have posted concerning their experience there.
As we get rock solid experience locked in with the current Netrender we may be able to archive the information found there so that everyone isn't accessing obsolete information.

The Netrender forum (the one Robert linked to): http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showforum=208

Somewhere in there should be a link to the old Netrender Manual. As I recall it had some very useful information on some of the variables we could customize when rendering.

MMZ----
Thanks for all your effort here. See now you updated yet again ----so ok. here is a test.

I know nothing of netrender. Never had it. never used it. Just got ver 16 (which is so nice ) So I am going to download your pdf and see how I do to at least to just get net render to use the quads in my laptop where ver 16 sits. I will let you know how I do .

Rich

well --when I try and run the netrender command script thing. I was not sure how i could add those addition cores script lines as you have listed for four or six core machines. But then i got a dialog box saying messenger had detected 4 cores and you can only use four cores . Then I went to make new pool ...added a job ..etc ...but when it came to adding slaves no slaves show up. I am on windows 7 if that helps.

Rich

Vertexspline,

It sounds as though RenderServer indeed sees your RenderMessengers as that dialog did not show up for me until I tried to move the RenderMessengers into the pool for a job.

I've attached two screen shots. One before I drop the RenderMessengers into the job pool and one after. Unless I run another RenderMessenger and try to drop it into the pool, I do not get the four core limit notification.

Can you post a copy of your Netrender startup script that you modified?

Also, there is a note on the same page that shows the script modifications, and as discussed further up in this thread, the web subscription is limited to four Cores/Messengers at once. The CD version is limited to eight, but you can purchase additional 'seats'.

Hope that helps.

FYi

I have found that simply logging out and logging back in will fix the "listening socket failed error".

well....the thing is I did reboot a few times and my script file looks good to me. The thing is i never see any slaves in the slave list not even two . I have a quad core processor and the messenger say it detects 4 in a dialog box. odd.
Here is my test script i ammended for 4 cores.

Rich

Not quite sure, the script looks correct to me. I presume you are acually using a 64 bit OS and install of A:M.

Do you see the icons in the task bar?

yes---i am using windows 7 64 bit and 64 bit AM ver 16. It does seem odd as the script seems right to me and like i said before the messenger sends up a dialog box as says it detects four cores ..yet i can never seem to get it to see or show any slaves no matter what i try. odd indeed.

I might make a suggestion for your instructions. you might tell folks to right click on the net render icon to bring up notepad so they can edit. I did not know how to do that at first.

Rich

Rich,

Can you post a screenshot of RenderServer and all four RenderMessengers running. (press the "Print Screen" key on your keyboard, then paste into "Paint" and save as a .jpg or .png file)

I'd like to see the state the RenderMessengers are in as well as RenderServer. If you want shoot me an email - timelord at mmz dot org and we'll see about a free tech support session.

what is the relationship between the "Netrender.cmd" that contains:




and the "start_messengers.cmd" that contains:



If I want four cores, do they both need to be modified to start four rendermessengers?

Robcat,

Note in both scripts the only difference is the presence of the "start renderserver_64.exe" command.

The Netrender.cmd starts RenderServer first, then the cores/instances where as the start_messengers.cmd only starts the messengers and presumes you already have a RenderServer running.

If you want to start four cores/instances AND RenderServer, your script would look like this.

What is a typical occasion to use the start_messengers script?

You wouldn't be able to start NetRender without it running the netrender.cmd and starting the messengers anyway...

RenderMessengers can be started before RenderServer, but they will not, as you would expect, connect to anything. They will idle and keep sending requests to connect to a non-existent RenderServer.

I suppose the original script with only two instances, could be used to launch additional instances above the stock two instance script with RenderServer, so you just run the 'start_messengers.cmd' to get each additional two instances.

i.e. - You want to run four instances and have not altered the scripts. Run the regular 'netrender.cmd' first, then after it completes, run the 'start_messengers.cmd'. Viola! RenderServer and four instances of RenderMessenger are running.

At least that's the only purpose that comes to my limited mind at this point.

Well I have gotten at least 2 slaves to show up but they seem to be "offline" . what is odd I never changed the script from above that has four cores to be used ..and when i double click on the netrender icon i seem to get a dos command line script running only for two cores as if my script is ignored...and its hit any key to continue in 14..13..12. 10 8 5 secs etc etc. But then I see that messenger dialog that says it detects 4 cores. All very odd. Then once in netrender I do see at least the 2 slaves but they are offline.

Rich

If you are still getting the command prompt window opening and RenderServer with two RenderMessenger instances, it sounds like you may have edited the wrong file or it did not take.

If you added the four RenderMessenger lines such as I have posted for Robcat above, then it would start four RenderMessenger instances after starting the RenderServer.

Also, don't force the timer, let it run for 15 seconds to make sure the previous instances have started completely.

I will take a look and see if I can tweak this stuff some more. When you say a command script did not take --how does one correct that? I do not have time right now but tomorrow I try to and figure this out.

thanks--
Rich

So I got a chance today----updated to 16b and tried the netrender again....and low an behold I was able to see the 4 cores on my laptop and render using all of them. Now do not know what happened or changed .I did learn a few things reading some later post but seems good now. So thanks .

There was a change in politics from the first release of v16 and the following once... I think from v16b on, you can use 4 cores with a normal licence, and before that you could only use 2 with a normal licence.
That may one explaination of the problem and of course there were several bug fixes for v16b which may have addressed a few things in that direction too.

Anyway I am happy that it is working now .

See you
*Fuchur*

For windows-users:
I wrote a small batch-file for myself to start Netrenderer in a more intuitive way for me.
Place a batch-file (for example: start_netrenderer.bat in the Animation:Master installfolder (next to renderserver_64.exe, master.exe, etc.)
and copy the following code into it using Notepad.

!!! Important !!!
If you are using 32bit-version of A:M, open the file again with Notepad, press "CTRL + H".
As Find-String type in "_64" and as Replace-String "" > nothing.

Hit replace and save the file.



You can then create a shortcut on your desktop referencing this file.

What it does:
1.) Ask if you want to open Netrenderserver. (Say "Y", if you are just starting, say "N" if you only want to restart some crashes rendermessengers).
2.) Ask how many rendermessenger you want to start. (standard is 0-4. In futur you may want to start more... the script is capable of that. Just replace the 4 in this line "if "%X%" GTR "4" goto :f1" with the number you want to be able to start.

The script will start netrenderserver (if you told it too), start the number of rendermessengers with a pause between. This is for security-reasons and is helping to run the process more smoothly.

I hope you find the small script useful!

Best wishes
*Fuchur*

Excellent! thank you Gerald.

Steve

Okay all... Another small update on the Basic guide as well as a rough draft of the Advanced guide.

This is MUCH more relevant now that we can purchase extra nodes separately. YAY!

GO HASH, GO HASH!!!

Hi!

You may want to update the info concerning the licence. These are only guesses from chats I had with Steffen and Jason (never actual tested all of these statements...):
- I am not sure, but I think that CD-version cant run 8 cores but just 4. If I am not wrong (I may be) it was never implemented to give you that possibility.
- You can now buy more rendernodes without having to buy more licences.
- You don't need licences all over for all the computers you are rendering with. Just install A:M and run the slaves/messengers only. The server will determine how many rendernodes can be used, it will not be checked on the several computers itself. (only if you try to start A:M).
- In your Advanced-PDF you have a little letter-switch at "2. Ethernet Networking Router or Swtich. (Preferrably Gigabit Ethernet.)".

Thank you for your afford on this! It is all very helpful!

See you
*Fuchur*

I'll fix the typo. As to the licenses, they may have changed, but I did actually speak with someone at Hash on the phone about the 8 on CD and 4 on web.

As to the additional license spoken of in the advanced document, it is mentioned that it is only necessary IF you wish to run A:M on a separate machine than your render server will be running on. I'll go through everything AGAIN this evening and see if I made any more boo-boos.

Ok,

When shipped at this time the v16.0 CD and Subscription version only has 4. But if anyone sends support@hash.com their license file I will up it to 8 on the "CD" version.

Also one thing that was not cover that if you are going to render a project it must be on a path that all machine see the same file. The best way to do this is from a network share. Like:

//{machine}/{folder}/{path}/

If you open a local project with render server it will tell the slaves to open it at that path. if you open the project at "c:/path/to/file/render.prj" all slaves will look for that file at "c:/path/to/file/render.prj". The same things applies with the save path.

updating the install steps on the FAQ is not my today list I will use this info too.

Thanks Man!
Jason Simonds

Jason,

Thanks for the clarification. I will review the advanced document and see if the path portion was described as you state here. (I thought it was... ) The advanced document is not yet complete and I was planning on including a "Render Wrangler" section as well as a more detailed file server operation section.

Sound good?

I have not yet added the section on "Running a Netrender Farm". This will include the share paths and how to properly map them.

Keep in mind that I do NOT own a Macintosh computer, so I would need someone else to chime in with how to set up a Mac as a render node. Not sure it's even possible. As I said, I don't own one.

More to come... stay tuned!

Jody,
I'm not sure how you want to organize your files here in the forum but having one version of the PDF files in this topic and one in the other might lead to some confusion. As of the time of this writing the attachments in this topic are the older ones. Your other topic has the newer ones.

As for setting up and maintaining Netrender on the Mac, I think I saw some pretty good responses in this forum from Jason Hampton.

Thanks Rodney, I'll put a link to the new docs in the op here and only update the other.

I will look for mac related posts today.

Thanks

Okay, the beginnings of the next section has been added "Running a NetRender Farm"

I think I've got my farm problem figured out. as long as the remote node has A:M installed and I can use Messenger and slave locally, everything works out. Try to use slave on the shared drive, however and BAM! instant appcrash. I'm assuming it has something to do with the addnode command script, but, even running it as Administrator, I couldn't get it to take. Not being much of a scriptor, I have to ask: what exactly does the script do, and what Windowssecurity issue does it address?

Thanks,
Rich

Rich,

There are issues with shared drives with all newer and patched XP versions of Windows in that there are larger restrictions with how they allow applications to access shared folders and drives. This is mainly due to the possibility of a virus replicating itself on multiple shared locations.

I have yet to work around this issue and so far have had to simply turn off firewalls completely to get Messenger nodes to access both a Server and Server files from another machine on the network. This is noted in the Advanced Guide (page 9):

"NOTE: A prerequisite to making these shortcuts and network data shares work is you MUST either turn off the firewall on the File Server machine or turn on file and print sharing for the firewall. Each Render Node will require it's firewall off or a firewall exception for the RenderMessenger and RenderServer as well. If you do not, this configuration WILL fail. These steps presume firewalls are all off."

Hope that helps. Please refer to the thread in the NetRender forums linked to in the OP for further information.