I'm working on a character and was just giving him some abuse. I think i have a good start so far.
any C&C's welcomed. Click to view attachment

NIce looks like he missed his chair

Nice Character Phil!

There is something a bit odd about the secondary motion of the character (I believe the problem is mostly in the head?)

- The character seems to be getting hit directly in the chest.
- His torso launches backward dragging his extremities (and head) with it.
*Note: Here, I believe the head should move forward farther than you have it as it pivots at the neck. The head is heavy and there should be a noticeable delay and moving forward/tilting of the head. (think whiplash!)
- The character's butt then hits the ground
- This creates a chain reaction that extends out to the extremities (and his head).
*Note: The head doesn't follow the trajectory and instead moves forward and down. I believe it should continue back even after the Torso has stopped and then SNAP BACK forward as the body settles.
I think the forward motion of the head that you already have can then pick up there.

That's my initial thoughts on his bounce.

Looking forward to seeing more of your character animation!


Added: There is a good opportunity for some anticipation in this bounce by following the natural chain reaction of the underlying bones/skeleton of the character. The Head moving forward first helps to anticipate and strengthen (exaggerate) the backward movement of the head after he hits the ground. The secondary motion (followthrough) of the head then finishes the arcing forward as his body settles.

While perhaps it's beyond the scope of this bounce I'm curious what his face would relay to us after he settles into place on the ground.
(Get that internal dialogue on display if you can)


-

Good looking character!

This is a very difficult move to do. My first observation would be to treat the torso more flexibly and not as a rigid unit. It will have a different bend to it depending on whether he gets hit high, mid or low and everything else will trail and be pulled after the part that gets hit.

Click to view attachment

Excellent graphic Robert.
I don't suppose you have another one for the reaction on the ground to seal the deal?

It's important to see that there are (at least) two 'hits' here.
The first is what sends him flying.
The second is the ground 'hitting' him.
Both require appropriate reactions to that contact.

The area of most interest to me (complicated stuff indeed) is where he hasn't yet recovered from the first hit when his body begins to react to the second hit.

In vehicle accident terminology that first hit would be the Point of Impact (POI).
If we could measure the distance to where the Character comes to rest we might be able to better understand the force used to propel him there.
There are formulas for this stuff... that... um... I obviously forget.

That's the even harder part! You're on the right track with "chain reaction". it's a bit like waves traveling through the body.

Thanks all
Well i wanted it to look as if he was tossed from a blast. I see what you mean about a chain reaction. I didn't try to do much with the head as i was trying to get the body to bounce and slide to a stop. I'll rethink this out,


It's like 3 bounces,
The first sends him flying backwards
The second is the recoil from the first and continues to send him back wards
The third one he come to a slinding stop.

Thanks for the C&C's

Click to view attachment Here's another try.

that's getting better! The torso definitely looks more flexed.

If you posed the arms in FK rather than IK you could probably make them trail more easily.

Biggest next item is his path through the air. After he gets hit he goes horizontal for a way then falls. Unless there's something carrying him he would move in an arc down rather than that L shaped path. Like a stone that had been heaved sideways


Click to view attachment

Thanks for posting the side view. That makes it a lot easier to analyze what you've got going thus far.

Here's my take with Shaggy filling in for your character.
I started by trying to emphasize the forward and backward movements/chain reactions but got lost having fun thinking about how Shaggy would react to it.
Not sure I conveyed what I set out to convey but.. fun exercise!

I should note that I used your character to rotoscope the basic movement/trajectory. Then adjusted from there.


I'm adding a second view (from the front) in case you are interested (I can upload the project file but the timeline is such a mess I don't think it's worth studying). You can tell in this shot that I only refined with the previous movie's camera in mind.
I guess the point I'm trying to sell/exaggerate more than anything is the motion of the torso, neck and head as it makes impact with the ground. While I may not have quite hit the mark in my attempt I do feel there needs to be some more reaction and recovery there. Especially given the force that it'd take to launch your character that far.

Keep it up. You are doing great things.
Entertaining me too!

Started from scratch with Thom and concentrated on him sliding once he hit the ground...

Rodney and Robert
From the diagram this is what I see that I've done
Click to view attachment
I think I need to change my key frames and timing also.
One question. is the center of gravity the point of impact?

Tom gets some abuse nice examples
tHANKS FOR THE iMPUT

In your diagram the center of gravity and point of impact certainly aren't the same.
At least you've indicated that they aren't.

I'd go so far as to say that the Center of Gravity is rarely the Point of Impact.
This will often be the case because the CoG is generally covered (or surrounded) by something that prevents it from being directly hit.
In fact, in some cases the CoG is just empty space with nothing to hit! It is however still the surrounding object/objects' Center of Gravity.
Case in point... Your pose on frame 9. More on that in a moment...

Consider for example a car with four wheels distributing the weight the whole car evenly on all four tires. The Center of Gravity is likely at a point low and in the middle of the chassis; a hard place to get to but ripe for helping cars spin out of control when hit at the extremities. Especially, the front and back.

Depending on your characters stance he could have his arms or some other object between the force and his center of gravity.
In the case of your diagram, we assume the center of gravity is at his hips and the force is being applied to the chest.
The CoG is at his hips because his weight is bearing straight down with support from his legs and hip holding that weight up.

For what it's worth, I perceive that your character's Center of Gravity is a little too low on Frame 9. The reason this should be the case is that his weight ( Torso, Head, Arms and Hands) have shifted forward. I don't see that significantly changing the four poses and positions you have in your diagram though. If anything it does make me think that his CoG-based trajectory would send him a little further backward. At the moment I'm thinking it is a very good indicator of the amount of force that has been exerted.

More opinion to stir into the mix.
For what it's worth.

Here's a diagram I found that illustrates how the COG varies depending on the arrangement of the body parts




In the first drawing it's very close to where the main body controller is on many rigs.

In the second, it's higher.

In the third it's not even in the body anymore. If he were a diver doing a somersault you would need to move the rig so tht it moved around that imaginary point rather than moving around a bone in the body.

Nice diagram Robert!
That's one of the better (and simpler) illustrations I've seen showing how Center of Gravity works.
I especially like how they show how the CoG moves upward when the arms and hands are up.
Nice.

Now might be a good time to mention that when spinning objects like the man in the illustration above, the classic method is to create a Null, constrain the Character to that Null, then rotate the Null instead of the Character. This makes easy work of keeping the Character spinning around his Center of Gravity without breaking the Character's rig.

For those that have access to Jeff Lew's DVD I'm pretty sure he uses that method in one of his lessons.

I made some changes. still needs some work
Click to view attachment
side view
Click to view attachment

Much improved.

I've been running your animation over and over again to better understand how to respond.
Truth is I think you've sold the basic action. If you had something or someone strike him in the chest there'd be no doubt of what is going on here.
Much of the rest is, as you've already stated, in further refinement.

I've been looking at the fall mostly from a technical aspect (and most of this from your side view) but I believe where you'll get the most bang for the buck moving forward is now going to be in the character's performance.
You've got the basic motion down... we could quibble on aspects of the current motion... but going internal to the character will enable you to seal the whole deal by nailing the emotion. The face is where we display the majority of our motivations and emotions.

How is your character going to react to this push?
Dismay?
Confusion?
Anger?

Assuming your character is rigged for it, adding that facial detail at the end will provide the real entertainment.

With the emotive content under control I believe you could then run another pass at the arms and hands to break up their symmetry and motivate their movement. Besides the head and facial features it seems to me that your time would be well spent refining the arms and hands. My thought there is that as the body goes down the arms should go up (i.e. as a secondary motion they are being dragged by the torso).

You're doing great stuff here... if this was a baseball game you'd be rounding second base with enough energy and momentum to take you all the way into home.

I wanted to share this little animation where I track your character's eye and hand from the side view.
The eye is not always the best point to track but I thought since I was talking about the face and arms/hands I'd look into that.
Here's how I interpret these 'channels'.

Eye/Head
There seems to be room for improvement in the frame just before the first hit on the ground.
There is a significant drop from the whole body at that point and I believe that accounts for what we see here.
If you look back at Robert's drawing (above) I believe this is the same trajectory problem he highlights in red as "Not This".
The character's fall appears to still be too sudden and linear.
Again, I'm tracking the eye in this case so some of that isn't going to be evident here in this green dotted trajectory.

The Hand
There isn't much indication of follow through here and that is very important in secondary action.
At the point where the dots go linear is where the body/butt hits the ground... but note... the hands don't continue their movement downward.

So... I'd say the focus for improvement still should be at your character's first contact with the ground.
Dare I say, this is where you could place an Extreme (a key pose that you want to have the rest of the animation flow into and out of). The other two primary Extremes are the initial push and the character at rest looking up at the cause of his present circumstance.

In the attached (Green Dots on top are tracking the Eye while Red dots on bottom are tracking the Hand):

Rodney, thanks for the input. I tried to clean it up some more.
Click to view attachment

Nice one Phil!

You've sold me on that one.

The only thing that strikes me as a missed opportunity is the final resting point of his eyes.
When animating, animators often draw an X where the characters eyes are focusing and keeps the characters eyes on that X as much as possible. In Animation:Master we often do this by creating a Null and having the Eyes follow that Null as an Eye Target. This is usually accomplished with an 'Aim at' Constraint. Of course the challenge with any Eye Target is to understand what the character is trying to looking at. As it is something going on inside the character's mind that something is important and even if never seen by the audience we should define it. If the eyes go somewhere else... there's another X for you to define.

I sense that if you cannot get his eyes to open wide enough, or don't have an eye target in your rig, you may have to tilt his head back up for us to get a good look at his eyes. Bottom Line: The audience wants to see the character thinking and this is best conveyed with the face and particularly with those eyes!

(Going back to watch it a few more times.... standby...)

Yup. Yup.
I see a couple possible courses of action and I've listed them in order of my own personal preference. If this were a shot from a director, you might not have the option to add more time or insert another shot. You'd have to really sell that extra footage to the director as that forces changes all the way down the production pipeline. I assume you are the director in this case so it's your budget to decide.

1. If this scene hooks up with another shot, for instance a close up on the character's face, I think this shot is good to go to final refinement.
2. Add more time to finish the final beat of this sequence. Really nail his recovery. Have him look intently up to the source. (See previous comments in previous post on this subject for some ideas on possible emotional performance options)
3. Quickly change his expression at the very end. Pop from one expression directly into another. He's shaken his head... but now he's back and you've got to sell what is emoting from his mind. (See previous comments on anger, etc.)
4. Some other thing I haven't thought of that can really sell the character's performance. In a gag this would equate to something completely unexpected and without knowing more about what happened to motivate the push this remains something for you to define.

There is one other thing I would do that is unrelated to your animation. I would do something with the background.
I will often replace the default Ground Model with one of my own that curves upward (to soften the horizon) and/or slightly arches it so that it isn't a completely straight line. For me, altering the color and inserting other objects is a secondary consideration to just breaking up that boringly static horizontal line. You've put a lot of time into this animation... don't let distractors like a default background degrade that... make sure to present it right. Heck, if you are really ambitious put a couple stacked boxes behind the character and have them interact with them. Perhaps that is what slows/stops his backward fall?

Great update Phil.
Keep em coming and if you have the spare time try some variations.
You'll get faster each time.

I just noticed that I have forgotten to to rig the eyes

I think he needs to get whacked a lot harder at the very beginning.

You are so violent!

It would be good to see what sent him flying.

I must agree with you. No I dont have any anger management issues


I wanted it to be a small explosion

There's something about the way he starts out that doesn't seem to be enough for what happens to him after. I think we should be seeing this more from the side, too.

Here's something that might be a useful tool and it should also get at that element Robert is talking about...

It's important to nail down your Sources and Forces.
My initial thought is to wonder why the primary Force of the explosion would hit him almost exclusively in the chest but... I don't know enough here about the Source (the motivator) to know. So perhaps we can learn more?

You could easily simulate your small explosion by having a small ball expand outward from the Source.

If you make the sphere mostly transparent (or better yet, fade it to full transparency over time as he comes to a complete rest) you can use that as a measuring tool to nail down, track and align his backward motion to the visible Force of the explosion. You can then replace that sphere with the appropriate FX later. Use that sphere to define the Force of your explosion and we'll be better able to gauge the characters reaction to that Force.

Just a thought.

I'm still of the mind that while the Action (External Motion) is important, the Acting (Internal Representation of Inner Motives) is even more important. You've got a hint of Acting in your scene with the Head Shaking but we really need to see more. Of course this isn't an either/or scenario... in the audience we want both! Appropriately tying/relating the Acting to the Action is important and I sense it'll reveal you'll need to exaggerate your poses after an explosion even more.

I had some time to work on this some more. I'm still thinking about the begining
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Hehe! Nice addition.
Love the eyes rolling up into the head.

You do have a way of introducing complexity into a shot that you are well on your way to locking down but hooking me into yet even more suggestions. You've got me thinking you are just messing with me now... like you are probing me to see if I know the answers to a test.

You've appear to have stumbled upon a case that represents an exception to the rule of the Torso leading movement of the Head/Appendages when force is being exerted on them. I offer the following for your consideration:

- When a person falls asleep or unconscious the Head will tend to fall forward or backward because it is no longer consciously being held up by the brain.
- The muscles of the neck relax and the weight of the Head takes effect.
- The Head falls first and then (if the mind does not awaken from its state of unconsciousness) the rest of the body falls/fails as well.

I recall my own experience all too well. After a long day of work I might sit down on the couch with my laptop or a good book and relax. After awhile the Eyes close and the Head falls back (because it's not held up by anything other than the Neck). The mind awakens as the Head falls but it is too late... the head whacks itself down against the edge of the couch (BAM! and OUCH! There is hard wood under that soft exterior). Lather, Rinse and Repeat until the pain in the back of the head suggests some other positioning of the body would work best.

My point here being that with your character going unconcious I'm confident the Head would tilt back first and then be followed by the Torso (although the Torso might outpace the Head on the way down and then the Head would strike the Ground last). Either way, when the character is unconscious the Head is going to be hitting the Ground hard. It's a good thing he's out cold already because that is going to be painful!

It's a fun situation to consider.
Thanks for going there.

Another thought...
From the side view it seems his hands should 'try' to stay in place at the beginning and be pulled via a chain reaction.

There appears to be two possibilities here.
- The blast could push the appendages farther and faster than the Torso
- The blast could push the Torso primarily which in turn would pull the rest of the body with it

A the blast seems somewhat confined, I believe the Hand should be more or less stationary unless or until pulled by:
- The Forearm which is pulled by:
-- The Upper Arm which is pulled by:
--- The Shoulder which is pulled by:
--- The Torso

As it appears now the Elbow seems to indicate the character he is moving his arms backward consciously during the detonation.

Rodney,
this is no test. Just started as one of those lets see if I .... but it keeps making these gears turn in yet another direction each time I correct something.

I see what you mean about the head moves first. Thanks

Yes. This bothers me too. The hands and feet, being most distantly attached to the torso, ought to be the last things to get going but they begin moving backward as soon as the torso does even though the arms and legs haven't been pulled tight to start moving them.

Also... he's slowing down in mid air. That can't happen. Once he's been flung thru the air his horizontal velocity will stay the same until something can slow him down, like the ground.

Look how his horizontal speed changes in mid air:

Click to view attachment



Also 2 ... he's going horizontal, then down. It's not a real arc that he's flying thru.

I did a few tweeks
Click to view attachment

I tried to follow the arc
Click to view attachment

Nice update Phil. I hope you are having as much fun animating this as I am watching.

I'm still looking at your latest updates but thought I'd add this while it was fresh in my mind...

Near the end when the Character (we need a name for him Phil!) raises his hand to his head there is a really nice opportunity for Layering of your key actions. I believe this is important enough to consider because it'll get you some nice Overlapping Action.

Consider:
When the Hand is at the Head there is no Inciting Incident that triggers the Hand return (via gravity) to the ground but very easily there could be if the triggering moment for his hand to fall is the same as the one that has his Eyes rolling back into his head. This moment is the signal that clues us in the audience into the fact that this Guy is passing out. Further, it's our chance to Anticipate what is about to happen with the Hand and the Head... which will terminate in his whole body slumping to the ground.

So, as a recommendation, I will suggest that it may be appropriate for the Hand to begin falling at the same time that the Eyes begin to move.
In execution this should create something of a beat to the contacts on the ground (Hand... flump... Head... thump... Torso... DA... Head (bounce).. bump)
There is room to vary that beat accordingly but yeah... basically; "flumpthumpDAbump"!


While I'm here...
You mentioned you were thinking about changing something at the very beginning?
I expect that as you continue you'll want to add an Anticipation just as he realizes the explosion has gone off.
As this will require a whole new set of Poses I shouldn't go into much more except to say that I believe we'll read his Anticipation of (or Reaction to) the Explosion by what we see happening with his Eyes and his Mouth.

My general thought is that if he is holding a package at Chest level and he KNOWS its about to go off, he might scrunch his eyes closed in Anticipation of it going off. If its more of a suprise and he has little or no idea it is going to go off his Eyes might open wide (to signal his surprise).

More fodder for thought.

Rodney
Yes, I'm really enjoying this. I call him the Gunny.


I see what your saying here. I'll make some tweeks and see what happens.

here's a few more tweeks
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
Now i need to try and make an explosion

There is much improved in this last update.

I'm going to regress back to the fall and bounce a little because I think there is something important missing in there.
This example will look a lot like Roberts tracking but whereas his attacked the Arcs and Spacing of the fall my purpose is to target something else; Reverse Curves.

Note that what I'm tracking here is Gunny's spine. One of the best places of all to take advantage of reversing a curve in animation is in a character's spine. In your case this is especially important because that will drive the Secondary Action that follows the movement of the Torso which is controlled by the spine.

The red indicates contact with the ground.

Note that throughout the animation there is really only one curvature of the Gunny's spine?
As the essence of animation is change there is an important opportunity to take advantage of the reversal of the curve of the spine.

My thought: Where the curvature of the spine in now fully forward I believe it should reverse (after the contact) and then (somewhat like a whip because of the muscles of the spine) recover to the forward position before the final fall.

Hope this makes sense. If not I'll be happy to share some drawings.
More change (and reversal of curves) means more will register and sink in with the audience.
Perhaps what may be in order is one really solid Breakdown Pose that cements the contact and triggers the reversal of the spine?

Now you've got me curious...
If you could chose only three poses from your entire animation to tell your story, what would they be?

Note: One useful exercise might be to consider how you would tell your story in the least amount of Poses:
1 Pose (as in a comic book panel) - Perhaps Gunny getting blow back in mid explosion
2 Poses (flip book) - Before and After
3 Poses (1 second sequence on 8s) Before and After with an Anticipatory Breakdown to sell the effect
4 Poses (1 second sequence on 6s)
5 or 6 Poses (1 second sequence on 4s... give or take a few padded frames)
A Pose for each beat or contact in the movement (I haven't counted those but I'll guess... 12)

I suggest a minimum of three Poses because that seems optimum for establishing the Anticipation, Action and Reaction or Beginning (1st Key/Extreme), Middle (BreakDown) and End (2nd Key/Extreme). From there the computer could then roughly interpolate the middle frame but by choosing only those three Poses we completely control and interpret that essential Breakdown/Inbetween.

Added:
One of my favorite online artists is Rad Sechrist. I especially like his analysis of form and flow.
Today he posted some of his little doodles that I love to collect. It just so happens that one of mentions 'Three drawings for a movement'.
It's part of an ongoing lecture that doesn't accompany his doodles... boy I'd love to attend one of his lectures!

There's a lot of these little doodles on his blog (and at The Art Center) but here is the one that validates my general thoughts of today:
Three Drawings for a Movement

Here's an oldy but goody... from way back in 2007 (from Animation Mentor's Shawn Kelly):

While it's focus is on spine reversals please note the little illustration that demonstrates the three storytelling drawings. That's really at the heart of my thoughts on focusing on a minimum of clearly readible poses to tell the tale.

http://www.animationmentor.com/newsletter/...k.html#tipTrick

Rodney,
I've been out of commission for a bit, fell off a ladder and wacked out my wrist. ( I found out that I dont bounce at all)
I've been trying to work with the reverse arc. this is what I have so far. I'm not sure that I'm doing this right.
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Thanks for the links

Sorry to hear about your accident Phil. That would explain why you haven't been around!!!

I'm heading out the door so haven't had time to spend with your latest update.
The primary action looked good but I was distracted by the secondary action in his arms (it's not clear why they would not continue down and strike the ground).

So... here's the challenge.
You've just experienced something similar to this animation personally (Some folks are a little too extreme in their research!!!)
Apply what you know of that experience to this fall.
Where should this guy be feeling the effects?
What should happen to those arms?

Glad to see you are doing better both in recovery and in your animation.

Welcome back!

This might not be what you're working on now, but one thing I noticed was that his rate of backwards movement is lower until he hits the ground, and then he speeds up after the first bounce. You can probably see this in the Z channel of the relevant bone (assuming that's the direction of his backward movement). Ideally his quickest movement in the Z direction would be immediately after he was hit, and then slow down after each bounce. I think the other bounces do that okay (without having done one of those cool video location/timing analyses that either Robcat or Rodney have been known to do), it's just the speed before the first bounce that is too slow.

I had some time to work on this some more. I think the timing looks a bit better
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

He sure has a bouncy butt!

I suppose in a real world situation if he was thrown back that strongly he would tumble after he hit the ground. His butt would catch the ground a bit while the rest of him kept going causing his legs to fly over his torso.

But you may not want to pursue real world motion that much.


i'll try to look at that a bit more later.

I took some of the bounce out. I'm still having a problem visualizing the hands and arms

Click to view attachment

Looks pretty good so far, maybe have the arms lag a little more and not so much in sync with the body move.

Of course, that departs quite a bit from rigorous body mechanics, but that's an effective clip. You've gotten rid of the unnatural floatiness as he's going thru the air.

Just to try...how about a version where he tumbles backward when his butt hits? If he did a full 360° tumble he could end up in the same sitting position.

something like this? Click to view attachment

Yes, that's sort of what i was thinking!

However, I'd have him continue to move as he rolls rather than spin in place as he does at the end. He might be spinning just a bit fast too.

Yes i see what you mean. In the start of the roll i have him moving but half way through its like he's spinning in place. I'll also slow down the roll

Thanks

I slowed the flip down some but I think i need to work on the flip some
Click to view attachment