So I've been desperately trying to figure out how to cut production time down from 15 years to 5 years on this project. The best I can come up with is shoot the film live action against a green screen background. That saves from modeling characters, rigging characters and animating which would basically shave off 10 years from the production time.

However, this method is not without its set-backs and the main ones are money and equipment. In my experience with green screening, three things are needed. The green screen and a room large enough to film in. An HD Camera (SD sucks with Green Screening) and a proper lighting rig. HD camera costs about 8-900 dollars and a lighting rig is about 600 dollars. Then on top of that, there are other expenses and problems like finding a room large enough to green screen everything, proper microphone/boom rig (about 200 dollars if you get one on ebay) you need all props built and costumes made. All in all, looking at several thousand dollars.

So this is like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. It seems there's no real solution here unless I'm missing something. It's animate it and spend the better part of my life on this project (I've told Kroznuski that I'm only staying on 2-5 years, I can't commit 20 years to this project, I do have to have a life too) or shoot it live action and spend an arm and leg but probably have the project done in about 5 years. Now I have some money, but I should go to school sometime this decade and learn to be...something and that costs a LOT of money.

So, any insight you guys can give on this interesting dilemma, please, let me know

as far as greenscreening... shooting outdoors and using the sun to illuminate the greenscreen is a long-standing professional tactic.

It was good enough for George Lucas on "Star Wars."

Lots of room. Perfectly even light on the screen, you'll never be able to get that indoors on a budget.

You can paint a tarp with your key color and set it up anywhere and not have to paint your room. Make a frame out of PVC to hold it up, or stretch it on a convenient wall. It's also easy to put on the ground when you need to capture someone's feet.

For "indoor" shots put the screen far back and hang a diffusing gauze over the actor to make the light look not like direct sunlight. Most of the "indoor" scenes you see in Chaplin films are really sets built outdoors with no ceiling and gauze overhead.

what about things like wind? There's no wind on the bridge of a starship to my knowledge Though I suppose if you built a sort of tent like thing. Hmmmm, that could work, though living on a farm poses some problems like the constant sound of tractors, unless I dare re-recording, but with unprofessional actors, that probably wouldn't work so well Hmmmm, definitely some good things to think on

Well, you might consider planning it such that you can do your live-action photography in a condensed amount of time and seek out studio time. Even if it's just a still photographer's studios, they would have the lighting elements you would need. Arrange to rent the space and their equipment or see if you can work out some kind of barter. Definitely look into renting the camera for just the time you need it.

Planning far enough ahead to have as much done in preproduction (including pre-visualization) will mean less time when you actually go to shoot. Rehearse with the cast just using a low-end camera. Get everything perfect first. You'll still lose some time to mishaps, but the more prep work you do in advance (which doesn't cost anything), the more value you can get by cutting down the time during the actual shoot.

That's what hairspray is for.

Aquanet. Extra Super Hold.

I've been looking around for camera rental, unfortunately, living in a rural area, people don't tend to have camera's for rent. In the city I think you can, but getting there is kind of a hassle. But yeah, the less amount of time needed to shoot, the cheaper things would be

How about a motion-capture setup like this?
http://www.naturalpoint.com/optitrack/prod...motion-capture/

$6,000 doesn't seem out of reach.

all i have is 3,000 and like I said, I'm supposed to go to some form of post-secondary education in the fall

I think greenscreen fits your strengths best. You can make A:M models for sets and not have to animate characters.

Suggestion: go to the paint store and get some of their extreme green and blue paint chips and test them out with your camera and compositing software to see what works best. Commercial paints work great and are much cheaper than official chromakey paints.

Some of the Disney colors are perfect matches.


Although greenscreen has been fashionable lately, I found with my software that blue worked better especially if I was trying to preserve a shadow falling on the color screen.

well, I have a 6 foot green screen that came with pinnacle and it's proven to be a good shade, but I used a lot of blue when I did some chroma keying in Film/Vid last year with the HD cameras. The good thing about that shade of green is that it's going to be very hard to find that in the subject, whereas blue is pretty much guaranteed to be in the subject. But it seems we got the concept of how to do green screen, that leaves camera, props and costumes

As long as you are studying something that gives you access to a camera and recording equipment, and your school has a drama department (so you can get free actors and costumes), I can see nothing but success in your future Teachers are usually so shocked when a student really really really wants to take some initiative, they will go out of their way to help you (at least the good ones will).

I'l probably just be going to the local university to study history or English or something. I've spent the last year running around in circles, getting accepted to school after school and declining them. Seems I don't have much interest in doing anything, so I'm gonna force myself to do something

I thought that you wanted to make movies--isn't there something relevant to that at school? If you don't know WHY you are going or what you want to do, then I don't understand your purpose...

Yeah, I don't understand it either, all I know is that not going is not an option, I gotta do something. My parents have pretty much given me one parameter in life and that it's I don't do retail or anything for my whole life. Which I understand, I just don't want to be anything. But anyways, that's a different discussion and a very long one (we've been having it for about 3 years now here at home and it hasn't ended yet)

That's what Shotgun mic's in hairy blimps on Boom poles were designed for..... Well within your budget.

Cheers

the sound man has spoken. So that leaves props and costumes correct?

Costumes... You can find all sorts of uniform type clothes in military surplus stores and on ebay. Repurpose them with a few custom decorations.

I am definitely being very tempted to do it this way

The greenscreen path has some limitations too. Running an actor down a long hallway is just about impossible because you'll never have a greenscreen big enough.

You'd have to write your way around those situations.

Yes, this method is definitely not without its own difficulties, such as the meticulous set of notes needed regarding camera distance, height, angle etc for every single shot

Invest in a nice prosumer hd camera like the panasonic hmc150 (~$1800) and honestly, I've shot greenscreen in my bedroom using a vibrant green paint on the wall (cheap paint from the hardware store) and a few construction lights (~$15 each)

(I tend to try to do as much at home as possible because I hate schlepping down to the studio at school, and my projects turn out as good or better than my classmates.)

Having done both animation and live-action, the greenscreen option is temptingly speedy compared with animating....but your actors will make or break the whole production.

I was thinking something similar, except instead of green paint, what about using green construction paper? That would cost less but work the same way correct?

>Invest in a nice prosumer hd camera like the panasonic hmc150 (~$1800) and honestly,



<you could even use a canon EOS 500 for half the price...

jakerupert: "you could even use a canon EOS 500 for half the price..."

I would still recommend the Panasonic because it is designed to shoot video, although for static-camera greenscreen shots it might make less difference.

ToaKaita47: "I was thinking something similar, except instead of green paint, what about using green construction paper? That would cost less but work the same way correct?"

It should work alright, but I think the paper might be a bit more reflective than matte-textured paint. Experiments would have to be done.

've been watching a bunch of videos on Greenscreening and cloth appears to be the best option due to the fact it doesn't wrinkle and it works better with the light. As for spending 1800 dollars on a camera, that ain't gonna happen. That 3 Grand is my entire savings and should I get my act together and go to school, I'll need as much money as I can get my hands on

You might consider something like Digital Juice's ChromaPop, which would allow you to have a portable green/blue screen to take wherever you needed to shoot. Not very large, mind you, but you wouldn't be locked into one location.

http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=1158

Well, I know some people that are good with their hands so I would go the route of building my own green screen and frame, with adjustable size and whatnot

It sounds like live action may be out of your budget. Go to school, and in your free time, animate your brains out. That will be the least "expensive" route. =D

But it costs time. That's why I'm exploring the live action route. I shot a short film on 10 dollars once, though I highly doubt a film of this magnitude could be shot on 10 dollars And from what I've been told, there's no such thing as free time when in school. In an odd way, I'd rather make this film than go to school, alas, I don't think it'd benefit me much, that and my parents would never allow it

You don't need an $1800 camera to shoot a video. You can work around the limitations of something far less expensive. Cheap cameras today are astonishing compared to what was available for video classes I was in 20 years ago. And yet people somehow managed to make great videos with lo-res S-VHS camcorders 20 years ago.

Here's a 720p camera with optical zoom for $100! You could shoot a lot of good video with something like that.

Here's a 1080p version for $200.

On your first film, make it a goal and a challenge to do everything as inexpensively as possible.

Those Aiptek cameras do a decent job if it's a well lit scene...they don't like low-light stuff very much. I like the Aiptek 720P model I bought, it shoots a very decent image and has an external mic jack (not all of the models have one)...which you will really want to have. Aiptek's site is here if you want more specs on them and a listing of everything they make.

The Aipteks are a decent enough low-cost solution, although if you are going to pull keys and comp etc def. spring for the 1080p model - that extra res comes in handy like you wouldn't believe. Just remember, you want the most pristine footage you can possibly get going into a composite, so definitely spend your $ on the best camera you can afford.

Good luck!

Hmmm, those Apitek ones do lack some good features like manual focus and mic jacks. Hmmmmmm, seems I'm at a bit of an impasse with myself, because this decision directly ties into what do I plan to do with the rest of my life, go to school, or try to go with the flow and figure things out along the way, trying to make stuff I wanna make like ELZ. I'm full of these excitingly difficult problems it seems

here's my 2 cents
the first thing that you've got to get a grip on is (all this stuff takes a ton of time to do its a black whole)
and the second thing is all the failures that go with the territory (you'll have more failures then success)

however if you love this stuff ( Stuff meaning art, music, writing, directing ect... )
you will succeed and your failures will be one of the keys to that success

so
i think you should scale down your project way down !! to a short
fine tune everything make the best parts outstanding and ditch the crap
and I mean everything no excuses the vo's music lighting everything
analyze every frame if you have some shot that works but the next one does not then use whats good dump the rest
or maybe you'll find away to make that crap shot work someplace else cause you got funky with it experiment

and wile your at it assemble your best shots export them out
download a copy wwwblurb.com Booksmart and put the thing into print
it's cheap you'll have a hard copy for the future

it's just has hard to do a killer short as it is to to a longer project
THINK SMALL DO BIG !

the benefits
well for one thing you should be able to finish it
also you'll figure out a ton of stuff and perfect even more stuff as you go along
all the elements are reusable so you'll have that
and bty don't stop at one most companies do several so you should too

you know a year from now you might even dump the whole thing and move on to something else
i have a slew of somethings lying about my computer
and I'm glad they are there

as far as school goes
well I don't know you personally and you never said what school or for what
but i'd go it won't kill you and you can still do this project or any other project

anyways
sorry if I'm a bit winded on this one
but you sound frustrated
and all I can can say is been there done that

j

here's my 2 cents
the first thing that you've got to get a grip on is (all this stuff takes a ton of time to do its a black whole)
and the second thing is all the failures that go with the territory (you'll have more failures then success)

however if you love this stuff ( Stuff meaning art, music, writing, directing ect... )
you will succeed and your failures will be one of the keys to that success

so
i think you should scale down your project way down !! to a short
fine tune everything make the best parts outstanding and ditch the crap
and I mean everything no excuses the vo's music lighting everything
analyze every frame if you have some shot that works but the next one does not then use whats good dump the rest
or maybe you'll find away to make that crap shot work someplace else cause you got funky with it experiment

and wile your at it assemble your best shots export them out
download a copy wwwblurb.com Booksmart and put the thing into print
it's cheap you'll have a hard copy for the future

it's just as hard to do a killer short as it is to to a longer project
THINK SMALL DO BIG !

the benefits
well for one thing you should be able to finish it
also you'll figure out a ton of stuff and perfect even more stuff as you go along
all the elements are reusable so you'll have that
and bty don't stop at one most companies do several so you should too

you know a year from now you might even dump the whole thing and move on to something else
i have a slew of somethings lying about my computer
and I'm glad they are there

as far as school goes
well I don't know you personally and you never said what school or for what
but i'd go it won't kill you and you can still do this project or any other project

anyways
sorry if I'm a bit winded on this one
but you sound frustrated
and all I can can say is been there done that

j

oh dear, that's a bad thing to do with me, tell me to scale down or something like that. It becomes even more important to me to make it as grand and large as it is Some sort of primeval challenge thing I think I have made shorts in the past and I was waiting for this to come, but that's ok, the advice is well accepted. I think my frustration comes on the fact that we've designed a society that doesn't allow you to do what you want without years of endless struggle, not that I want it easy mind you, but just in a perfect world, I should be able to work on a project like this with no real negative consequence or repercussion to my future. The decision of animated vs live action also decides something else, it decides whether or not I go to school and try to go that route, or if I'm going to try and do things my own way and just hope for the best. It would help if I had some form of long term goal in mind, but I'm such a case by case basis type of person that long term goals don't seem to suit me well But here I am talking about going to school or not and that's one discussion I am sick of having now (been going on it for 2-3 years now and I hate it)

oh and perhaps this tip about myself will help, it's not so much that I'm making a film, it's what I'm making that's important to me. I been on this project for a year already and this is something I want made. After this, I could move on to something else, hell, I could move on to painting afterwords for all I know (though I highly doubt I'll do painting)

you sound like a prime subject for those tests they do at career counselling. go and find out your makings; if you prefer people to information; if you like to move between subjects or burrow into a speciality. if you prefer lateral mobility to climbing a ladder. it won't hurt but it just might help. you seem like the type of person who can only be challenged from within. so go learn some keywords to get started.

- go to school. try to choose one you think you'll finish. but go to school. go to three schools!
in a perfect world the world would owe us a living, but as it happens, we all wound up here and have to earn our way.
in doing so, you will profit from a degree of any kind. it will define you for strangers; when looking for sponsors for your film project and introducing yourself as a "constructor who can't stop the storytelling" you'll come across as a level-headed maker of things instead of an idealist.
the next question the sponsor will immediately ask is, what kind of education do you have with film?

- learn what makes you tick. if your answer today would be "artistic, sponsorless freedom", then find an area of work that can bring that. it's not entrepreneur needing clients, winning by returning clients, having to chase new clients. it's not corporate. probably so not white collar. blue collar would kill your soul. i'm beginning to think fishermen for loners, life guard for people persons, and you'll go i want to be indoors. is a car ok? are you a courier of things other than flowers? are you a truck driver then you'll be spending long stretches of time on the road with no chance to work hands-on on your project. your planning would have to be flexible in a way that makes discipline paramount if you work with others on your film. did you fall asleep already? maybe you'd prefer to drive an ambulance?

if you are the type who'll want to keep "doing your own projects" you need a steady part-time job. that is not easy to come by. that means a job, not a career. if you intend to keep that up, it means tiny income or fluctuating income. if you intend to live like that in this world, you need Conviction. you need to know the "deep in your heart of hearts" type of knowing, that nothing else will make you happy.

so, first, you will need money. to get money you will pay with freedom and energy. go to school - you'll get the most freedom for your money.
second, you will need to get to know yourself. that could take time and that's what you're here for. see if you can find a simple training that will quickly move you to a degree but that you can continue to build on every time you feel the need for "more freedom for your money".

as to your film - you said you don't want to commit for 10 years. so don't. know what you know.
you've put animation versus live action. that's not enough, you need to get creative - with an axe. you need to challenge yourself.
tomorrow find three viable ways to tell the story without violating its integrity but elevating it.
find the core of the film, find the reason it should exist, and then find a way/style/props/colors/sounds that will convey that in the most head-splitting, limbs-tearing way. even if it is complete silence for 20 minutes then a drum roll (should the power of silence be at the core of the film).

well, thanks for everyone's advice. I'm probably not going to do live-action, and I highly doubt by the time all is said and done that the project will get finished at all. Besides, most of these projects don't anyways so I guess it's something to be expected. Now I know when/if Chris K reads this, he'll go on some sort of heroic speech of how it will get finished and all that foolishness, but he's unrealistic and unfocused to be quite honest. Anyways, I feel like I'm back to square one in more ways than one.

Hey, I like being optimistic, I can't help that

Well, I accomplished a task I thought impossible, I put Chris K into a down mood such that he considered scrapping the project. Guess even the most positive of people can be brought down Don't worry, I cheered him up again though

Optimistic as I can get right now. And I want to say this now, if I haven't already, I really appreciate the tremendous help this community has given for this project. My next "side-project" video will definitely be dedicated to this forum.

I think you oughta at least do some small section of the project you could make a trailer out of. I mean like 90 seconds or less. But actual footage from the show not 90 seconds of titles.

Do that then step back and see if you like it and if anyone else likes it.

I still think the idea of bluescreening live actors into A:M sets is is a cool one.

1.If you're shooting bluescreen, manual focus isn't necessary, and it can wind up being a nuisance. If your subject isn't in critical focus, you'll have a fuzzy matte.

2. All of the digital video cameras I've worked with, from $100 cameras to $5000 cameras, need a lot of light to shoot. It's just the nature of the beast. In fact, one of my instructors was fond of saying 'When in doubt, over-light it. You can always bring it down in post.'

3. The first time I took Intermediate Filmmaking, out of twenty students, only six turned in completed projects. Almost everybody planned to do something grander than they were able to complete. And that was only supposed to be an 8-10 minute short film in 15 weeks! The lesson is: It's better to have a mediocre film that's finished, than have the greatest movie never made.

wow, we had to do a 7 min short in 13 days in my film course, it was pretty intense, but it was a lot of fun too. And speaking of greatest film never made, our final project in that course was to do a trailer for the greatest film never made. We had 8 days to shoot and i was idiot enough to make it a western, meaning full costume changes, props all kinds of crazy stuff, that one was stressful

I like the idea of the green screen method too and I really really want to do that because I think I could. I just don't know if I'm willing to part with the money and tell my folks "nope, sorry, not going to school again this year". I think they'd get pretty frustrated at me considering they already are because I didn't go to school this year All they get me to do now is apply to schools and they greatly dislike that working on ELZ distracts me from applying to more schools

If you are living with your parents, then you can't reasonable expect them to finance your movie aspirations. At least get a job and contribute room and board

This is very funny! I don't know where you got the notion that what you want should come without a struggle. But you should ditch that attitude right quick. Or use it to inform your creative efforts. Otherwise there's no excuse.

@robcat I was actually thinking something similar, except more like the trailers they show off at E3, like for Star Wars: The Old Republic and whatnot, though in the case of ELZ, I don't think there would be much lightsaber fighting

Something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgvzSDcCH4g...eos=hSII7yZoCy0

Once I get AM, which should (finally) be very soon, I could do the animating and whatnot for it as I have a lot of free time on my hands And if we pursue this quickly we could have a lot of stuff already built for the movie itself. But the question is, do we pursue something like this first or do we focus our (mostly) undivided attention on Earth-Link Chronicles?

no no, I'm financing it with my own money. Whether I go to school or make a movie, it's coming from my pocket book. Not matter what happens, my parents can't spend a cent on me, they can't afford to. If I go to school, it's coming from what I've saved up, if I make a movie, it comes from the same bank account

And Gerry, I think that came across wrong, sorry about that, bad choice of wording. I was simply meaning that every decision you make in life shouldn't have to always seem to drastically alter your future. Little decisions would be nice once in a while

You could write the "Earth-Link Chronicles" as a book! typewriter+paper+time=book