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Hash, Inc. Forums > Featured > Feature Films: Tin Woodman of Oz - Scarecrow of Oz > Scarecrow of Oz > SO:Animating
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robcat2075
I haven't jumped on board yet. Is there a brief scene, not involving the Scarecrow and not mostly dialog I could do?
HomeSlice
Hi Robcat. What about 2_18_04?
Grasshopper spies a water bucket and struggles to lift it in the air. Then he loses control of it and drops it. In the next scene, we see the bucket fall on Tin Man's head.
If you would like to see what happens before and after this scene, please look at http://www.holmesbryant.com/files/video/sc...of_oz/animatic/

Don' t worry about the crowd (unless you want to). I have a couple of crowd actions I can plop in when I prepare it for test renders.

Thank You!
robcat2075
OK, I think i can do that. Is it really 33 seconds long?
HomeSlice
QUOTE
Is it really 33 seconds long?

There isn't a voice track, so I suppose you can make it as long or short as you need.
The information that needs to be conveyed is:
Grrasshopper is flying from the direction of Tin Man (in 2_18_03).
He sees the bucket.
He tries to grab it and fly up with it, and finally does with great difficulty.
He flies roughly above where Tin Man is when he gets hit with the bucket in 3_01_01
And Grasshopper drops the bucket.
KenH
There may be some grunts required for grasshopper Bill when he lifts the bucket and drops it. If you need them just give me a shout. Also, the bucket probably should hit Tinman on the body because he can still talk in later scenes ie his jaw hasn't seized up.
robcat2075
Does he drop it by accident?

Tinman told him to get it but he drops it on Tinman?
HomeSlice
Yes. he drops it by accident.
SC is being burnt at the stake. TM tells Grasshopper to find some water to put out the fire. Grasshopper flies up with the bucket of water (intending to empty it on the fire) but it is too heavy for him, so he looses control, ends up flying off course and ultimately drops it on TM as TM is going up to SC to see if he can untie the ropes holding SC to the post.
robcat2075
Where are the instructions on how I get hooked up to the SO SVN?
HomeSlice
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Mar 6 2010, 08:57 AM) *
Where are the instructions on how I get hooked up to the SO SVN?

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32558

You are probably still in the system, so you can probably use your old SVN user name and password.
robcat2075
Thanks for moving this, Rodney.


"Fortunately" I hadn't started on this shot yet before my drive crashed. I guess I should download that archive again...

robcat2075
Here's some issues I see...

- In 2_18_ 04 the bucket appears right by the fire, but it wasn't there in 2_18_03

- The screen direction is reversed between 2_18_03 and 3_01_01. Am I supposed to resolve that somehow in 2_18_04?


What I don't want to do is animate this shot and then have someone later change the camera angles on it.
HomeSlice
QUOTE
In 2_18_ 04 the bucket appears right by the fire, but it wasn't there in 2_18_03

It's a magic bucket wink.gif Hopefully someone will remember to put it in 2_18_03 when they begin animating. I added it to my notes.

QUOTE
The screen direction is reversed between 2_18_03 and 3_01_01. Am I supposed to resolve that somehow in 2_18_04?

If you want to set up the camera in 2_18_03 and 3_01_01, please go ahead. If you want to try to resolve the camera angles in your shot, please do so. We don't have a director, so although the camera is probably not going to move too much from where it is in 2_18_03 and 3_01_01, it will probably move somewhat once the scenes are animated - UNLESS, you set up the camera positions and ask us not to move the camera in those scenes.

QUOTE
What I don't want to do is animate this shot and then have someone later change the camera angles on it.

There are no guarantees that someone won't come in at a later date and move the camera in your scene. One example may be that something doesn't render correctly and whoever is rendering can't find a way to get the scene to render without changing a camera angle (granted, that is a long shot, but it has happened in the past). However, chances are that if you deliver a finished piece by the end of June, no one will have any desire to change what you have done.
robcat2075
I definitely need to get back on this one. I've spent too much time playing with A:M when I should have been animating.

When is the deadline? June 1? June 31?
HomeSlice
Deadline is June 31 smile.gif
HomeSlice
Hi Robert, how is 2_18_04 coming? I was wondering if you could commit whatever progress you've made so far to svn? Committing your progress will help us all by providing a backup in case something happens.
robcat2075
I have made zero progress on this. I will get on it.
robcat2075
I'm not clear on what the basic spine controls of Grasshopper Bill are. I don't see a control to turn on things like Head, neck, torso, tail.
mtpeak2
You rotate with the bones and translate with the nulls, those are the controls. This rig is based on Holmes' LiteRig, in which Holmes rigged himself, I believe.
HomeSlice
QUOTE(mtpeak2 @ Jun 18 2010, 03:17 PM) *
You rotate with the bones and translate with the nulls, those are the controls. This rig is based on Holmes' LiteRig, in which Holmes rigged himself, I believe.

Yep, and since I don't claim to be a rigging guru, it is what it is. That grasshopper was difficult to rig and it has some quirks, but it worked for the other scenes (with some futzing).
robcat2075
But I don't even see a pose to turn those on. Am I supposed to edit the model?

the show hidden extra bones pose just turns on fanbones and things like that.

Edit... I'm looking in the model to try to turn those bones on manually, but... they're already on. So there's a pose somewhere forcing them hidden?

KenH
Huh? This is what you should be seeing. Pretty self explanatory unless you're getting something else on a mac?
robcat2075
I've discovered the Face slider is what turns on the body controls.
dblhelix
where is there a tutorial for futzing?
robcat2075
Why does the head need separate controls for translating and rotating? What does not unifying those make possible?

Also... why do kleig lights in the set become visible when I turn on bones mode with Bill selected?
KenH
QUOTE
Also... why do kleig lights in the set become visible when I turn on bones mode with Bill selected?


Don't know why, but hiding the Jinx Castle base shortcut makes it go away.
mtpeak2
QUOTE
Also... why do kleig lights in the set become visible when I turn on bones mode with Bill selected?

Lights become visible in skeletal mode because they are action objects (lighting action on the Jinx Castle base shortcut), it doesn't matter which model is selected.
robcat2075
Blocking on the first shot. Don't panic. It will get better.

Click to view attachment

I flipped the camera around to the other side of Bill so when he enters this shot he's moving in about the same direction that he left the last one. That fixes a screen direction problem.
HomeSlice
Oh yes. Excellent start. Thanks Robcat.
KenH
Great so far! Grasshopper is difficult to work with. Watch out for his wings going through his body. I like that I get the feeling that this is "the big solution" to the fire problem.....which eventually fails.
apprentice
That looks really good, Robert.
HomeSlice
Hey Robert, Angelo needs this scene soon so he can start on the foley. Is there any chance you can have it done by the end of June?
robcat2075
I'm sorry I'm not done with this yet. I won't have this done by tomorrow. I think I can finish it in a week.

Can Angelo use this blocking clip to get started? This is kind of what will be in the shot but the timing will still change a bit.


Click to view attachment


Something is wrong with the assets in this project. I'm having a lot of this sort of trouble...

Click to view attachment

... and I can't work for more than a few minutes before I have to restart A:M and reload everything.







HomeSlice
That is looking really good Robert. The sense of weight is terrific. Angelo requires finished animation in order to do the foley, but if you say you will be done with it in a week, I'm sure that will be OK. I know you are busy trying to find festivals for TWO and trying to fix up TWO a little and helping everyone on the forum, so I started on an alternate last night after I posted my previous post. Thankfully, it looks like we won't have to use it smile.gif

The problem you are having is really strange. I noticed in your video, you have "snap to grid" ON. Maybe turn it off and see if that helps? (It shouldn't affect the timeline ... but it's the only thing I can think of) If that doesn't help, try loading the project I was working on to see if that one gives you the same trouble. If it doesn't have the problem, we can guess it has something to do with your computer. If you still have the same trouble, I guess there is a problem with the chor you are working in. After you Update the project folder, it is 2_18_04_alt.prj
robcat2075
Thanks, Holmes!

After some more trial and error, I think my problem may be those flying actions that were on Bill. I deleted both of those and the freezes seem to have gone away.

Damn, wish i had discovered that a week ago!
apprentice
The way Bill's lifting is funny lol. I'd suggest do more moving holds on the head and body as he looks around.
robcat2075
QUOTE(apprentice @ Jun 30 2010, 07:30 PM) *
The way Bill's lifting is funny lol. I'd suggest do more moving holds on the head and body as he looks around.



That will come. It's just blocking now.
robcat2075
Some polishing...

Click to view attachment




HomeSlice
Looking good Robert smile.gif
KenH
Coming on nicely. Could maybe use a touch more anticipation for the rush to the bucket. Or it might be funny to have a Snagglepuss style exist stage right....see frame at 34 sec on in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4qFxTTi8q0

Ah Snagglepuss. The king of anticipation.
robcat2075
Question... does Grasshopper Bill stand upright on two legs like Jiminy Cricket or do you keep him horizontal like his default pose?



QUOTE(KenH @ Jul 6 2010, 05:57 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4qFxTTi8q0

Ah Snagglepuss. The king of anticipation.


I actually did a Snagglepuss Exit for this piece about 10 years ago. Just to do it. It doesn't come until the very end.
HomeSlice
He has never stood up on two legs, but perhaps it wouldn't be completely out of character. You can see a typical range of motion here:
http://www.holmesbryant.com/files/video/scarecrow_of_oz/

Watch Act 2, Sequence 15: Oiled Free
robcat2075
I decided to sidestep it all by not having him land.

Here's what the middle shot sort of looks like.

Click to view attachment
HomeSlice
Aha, now I know why you were asking if he stands on his two hind legs.
KenH
Beautiful parabolic flight. wink.gif And his flight hold looks cool too. Nice work.
robcat2075
How are the elbows controlled when his arms are in IK mode? I don't see an elbow controller become visible but the FK bones are still on.
apprentice
Looks really good, Robert! Are you attending Animation Mentor?
NancyGormezano
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Jul 9 2010, 07:06 PM) *
How are the elbows controlled when his arms are in IK mode? I don't see an elbow controller become visible but the FK bones are still on.


Use the bicep bone to aim the elbow - no need for elbow controller?
robcat2075
QUOTE(NancyGormezano @ Jul 9 2010, 11:41 PM) *
Use the bicep bone to aim the elbow - no need for elbow controller?


Using the bicep bone seems to offset the hand from the IK controller, unless you pose it exactly right. Its not really an elbow aimer.

Am I doing it wrong?



Also when I go to the Face Cam i just see a black square. When I first started with the character I could see his face , but not recently. What changes?
KenH
I just tried on the alt chor and I can see his face which suggests it could be a graphics card issue. Maybe those wingbeats are causing problems again.

I think for the elbows, you need to position them first and then move the IK nulls.
robcat2075
Here's the whole performance. A different ending than I started with.

Click to view attachment

I still need to...

-animate his face in some spots
-animate his middle set of arms
-get his hands to stay on the bucket handle


but other than that, will this do?

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