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HomeSlice
This is still really rough. How does it read? Can you tell what is happening in the scene? That last part is supposed to be in slow motion.
NancyGormezano
It's a little tough to tell what's going on & I know what's supposed to be going on. Perhaps when it is less rough, it would be more obvious. But as it stands now, the characters seem so far away from each other. Will there be others in the scene? (like a crowd?)

There's a couple of things that disturb me - I expect this scene to be more frenetic, hurried - with trot whizzing past the camera, in front of witch? behind? - back & forth, back & forth to block the witches line of sight to googly & gloria. That might give more clue as to what's going on. I would at least expect to see some motion from trot - jumping into the shot, entering from different sides of the camera, up, down, left right - then we might get a better feel for the relative positioning, and the interaction and intent of witch and trot.

Maybe a shot at the begiinning to establish the relative positioning? Maybe not such slow camera work - more abrupt cuts, quick & short?

HomeSlice
QUOTE
Will there be others in the scene? (like a crowd?)

Yes, I'll add the crowd when I get the main action done.

QUOTE
the characters seem so far away from each other.

They kinda have to be far away from each other. There's a whole thing that goes on in the space between them. I don't know how it's going to work, but the spell effects go off in slow motion, from the witch to both Gloria and Googly Goo. In the next shots (spell effects are still advancing in slow motion), Tin Man and Grasshopper view the castle from a distance and run for it. TM runs up to SC tied to the stake (between Gloria and Googly Goo) and has a little chat. Then he walks up to Krewl and demands that he let SC go. Krewl orders that the bonfire be lit. TM tells Grasshopper to put the fire out, then he starts back toward SC. Grasshopper flies into the air with a bucket of water but loses control and drops it on TM's head as TM is headed back to SC. TM slowly rusts and becomes immovable just as he is near SC. He tells SC to do something. SC yells "blubbity blubbuty blub!" and Krewl laughs. Then a bunch of crows fly into the courtyard and cause havoc. FINALLY, Pon jumps into the path of the spell just before it hits Googly Goo. Pon and Gloria are both engulfed in the spell and look at each other.

Setting up the chors, I just couldn't work out how everyone could be any closer together.

QUOTE
I expect this scene to be more frenetic, hurried - with trot whizzing past the camera, in front of witch? behind? - back & forth, back & forth

Don't know how that's going to work. It is already confusing and hard to tell what's going on. Making it more frenetic might make it even worse.

QUOTE
I would at least expect to see some motion from trot - jumping into the shot, entering from different sides of the camera, up, down, left right

I'll try that and see what it looks like.

QUOTE
Maybe a shot at the begiinning to establish the relative positioning?

I'll try that too.

QUOTE
Maybe not such slow camera work - more abrupt cuts, quick & short?

Most of the cuts are less than two seconds long. Not sure I could make them much shorter without causing seizures in the audience...
KenH
Good start on a difficult sequence.

I wonder if some incantation from witchy would make things clearer?

There definitely needs to be some reaction/rushing shots of trot in there. If only for the first few tries. Maybe there could be a view behind witch to see what she's aiming at.

To set it up, perhaps if the first camera moved out from SC to show the relation ship of the other characters around him. Then cut to Witch. And Trot needs to be seen in the setup shots. I assume she would be being held by a guard. Maybe she could kick him in the shin and run.....could add some fun with the guard trying to stop her......queue Benny Hill music. smile.gif
KenH
As for what witch might say:

Heat of flame,
And line of sight,
Love that has been tame,
Shall now begin to bite!
Rodney
Wow... there is a lot going on in this sequence.
It's a fun sequence though! smile.gif

Here's the script for reference (Hopefully this is from the current script?)

QUOTE
SEQUENCE 2_17 "HIDE & SEEK"
2_17_01

EXT. JINXLAND CASTLE COURTYARD .NIGHT

COURTIERS stand all around the Courtyard. TROT, PON, GLORIA
and WITCH are among them. AN UNLIT Bonfire is in the middle
with SCARECROW tied to a stake in the center.

WITCH is trying to see GOOGLY GOO. Many heads are bobbing in
front of him.

WITCH is trying to see GLORIA. Many heads are bobbing in
front of her.

WITCH, in anticipation, prepares her arms to cast the Love
spell.

Momentarily, WITCH can clearly see GOOGLY GOO.

Momentarily, WITCH can clearly see GLORIA.

WITCH starts to cast Love spell.

TROT's head pops into line of sight with GLORIA.

WITCH is surprised - stops spell.

GLORIA is clearly visible.

WITCH starts to cast Love spell.

TROT's body interferes.

WITCH stops spell - thwarted again.

GLORIA is clearly visible again.

WITCH quickly snaps her arms to quickly cast Love spell.

TROT's arm interferes.



WITCH
(frustrated) (Growls.)



In frustration, WITCH moves within the COURTIERS for another
vantage point.

WITCH stops, scans carefully around.

GLORIA is visible but not Trot.

WITCH points one arm at GLORIA - waits.

WITCH smiles.

WITCH points her other arm at GOOGLY GOO - waits.

WITCH smiles.

WITCH is just about to cast her Love spell.

TROT's head pops up and blocks view of GOOGLY GOO.



WITCH
(shrieks)



WITCH continues to try and point around.

TROT'S back.

TROT's leg.

TROT's bottom.

WITCH pauses... Her face is determined. She points one last
time.

TROT making a face.

Just then, an unknowing COURTIER bumps TROT and she is
knocked out of the way.

WITCH sees her chance, raises her arms, (slow motion).

TROT's eyes go wide with concern because she cannot block in
time, (slow motion).

WITCH smiles, (slow motion).

BOLTS OF LIGHTNING flow from WITCH's fingertips, (slow
motion).

BOLT OF LIGHTNING reaches and surrounds GLORIA, (slow
motion).

BOLT OF LIGHTING approaches GOOGLY GOO, (slow motion)...


In light of the script I think your blocking is pretty spot on.
You've got the basic required elements, I'm sure there will be a lot of refinement to come.
HomeSlice
QUOTE(KenH @ Feb 27 2010, 06:54 AM) *
As for what witch might say:

Heat of flame,
And line of sight,
Love that has been tame,
Shall now begin to bite!


Oh that's good. Nancy, how does the audio track sound to you? If you think it sounds good the way it is, I guess it's OK. If not, would you be willing to do some more witchie voice recording? Along with a couple of angry growls at Trot? In the current voice track, I had to extract bits of your dialog from other scenes ...
NancyGormezano
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Feb 27 2010, 10:07 AM) *
QUOTE(KenH @ Feb 27 2010, 06:54 AM) *
As for what witch might say:

Heat of flame,
And line of sight,
Love that has been tame,
Shall now begin to bite!


Oh that's good. Nancy, how does the audio track sound to you? If you think it sounds good the way it is, I guess it's OK. If not, would you be willing to do some more witchie voice recording? Along with a couple of angry growls at Trot? In the current voice track, I had to extract bits of your dialog from other scenes ...


Now Holmes, have you ever known me to miss an opportunity to make a fool of myself?

That is a good rhyme. I hope I can conjur up the same ghosts that I was channeling 2? years ago (I think it was Carol Kane mixed with Bette Midler and Soupy Sales)

Do you have other "lines" in mind ? Or shall I just wing it and make up some babble to go with the scene?

I now have a flip video camera - which produces much better audio quality than I had way back then (had been using a cheapo mic going directly into my noisy sound card/hissy fit system).
HomeSlice
QUOTE
Do you have other "lines" in mind ? Or shall I just wing it and make up some babble to go with the scene?

Well, the witch gets cut off several times, so we can reuse the incantation quite a bit, unless you want to record several versions. Plus a growl and a shreik. Can you think of anything else Ken?
NancyGormezano
here's some stuff for you to start - extract audio, edit to your wicked heart's delight. Or let me know if this isn't what you want

KenH
Maaaybe if you want, the witch could demand the crowd to move out of the way so she can see googly and Gloria. That's all.

Also, if you want to go all out, witch really should be making an entrance. She could arrive in on her broom. But that's only if you're feeling particularly energetic. smile.gif
MJL
Sent you an email, Nancy
HomeSlice
QUOTE
Maaaybe if you want, the witch could demand the crowd to move out of the way so she can see googly and Gloria. That's all.

The crowd isn't in the way. They are behind a line of guards watching the scene. If they were milling all around Gloria, Goo and SC, I think I would probably go nuts. Crowd scenes are a real PITA. wacko.gif

QUOTE
Also, if you want to go all out, witch really should be making an entrance. She could arrive in on her broom. But that's only if you're feeling particularly energetic.

We'll see how that goes wink.gif At the moment, all I want to do is make the scene coherent and easy to read.
NancyGormezano
Holmes, dear - your silence was deafening

I got Myron's email - he said something about me being a ham bone (or maybe it was a pork butt?) - and that perhaps I should do a more kosher reading - like in more intelligible - audio wise.

Myron don't think da wich got gud dicshun. Myron wuz trying to be discreet and sensitive. (much appreciated)

I don't want to flood you with more crapola (or if you've started to edit the audio, or have come to your senses and your ears have finally stopped ringing) - so let me know if you need another take, unless of course, any of the muddled muck was gud fer youse.

(no guarantee that any more takes will be any better)
HomeSlice
Hi Nancy, I actually just listened to them. Wasn't trying to be coy smile.gif
The samples are charming, really! But there is some nasty intermittent static or something happening in all the audio files. It sounds like your mic is reacting to some frequency in your voice. I am not an audio expert, so I'm not sure what to do about it. Maybe Myron can offer some recording tips? Maybe try wrapping a sponge around the microphone?
[edit] Or maybe send an uncompressed wave file. 16 bit 44.1KHz ... maybe the AAC compression is causing weird audio artifacts ...
KenH
QUOTE
The crowd isn't in the way. They are behind a line of guards watching the scene. If they were milling all around Gloria, Goo and SC, I think I would probably go nuts. Crowd scenes are a real PITA.


I know they're not in the way, but that's the magic of movies. smile.gif We can make the audience believe it. Camera on Witch saying it. It's not a biggie, but it might be a little character development (witch's sense of self importance) and make it clearer that the view must be clear for the spell to work.

Nancy, I agree with Myron on some of the stuff. Sometimes, the accent gets a little too French. biggrin.gif
MJL
I managed to download the files in real player and convert them to MP3 and then to .wav. I'm hearing a little tiny bit of crackle sporadically, and an occasional compression pop, but I'm not sure I'm hearing the kind of static you refer to, Holmes. I've zipped the converted files.

Nancy, if you do re-record these,("Once more with feeling" was perfect!) stay farther back from the microphone and leave the camera sitting on something so it doesn't move. Don't worry too much about volume, as long as there is a clear sound I can make it louder.

Holmes, let me know if the wav files are any better or not.
HomeSlice
OK, I think these will work just fine. Thanks Nancy and Myron!
HomeSlice
Here is my second attempt at staging this beast. How does this one read?

KenH
I think that works better. I assume the King says "Let the spell commence!" or something in the previous scene so people know that's what it is. Also, when Trot shows her ass, is she jumping while in that pose? Quite an athlete. wink.gif
TheSpleen
Fun scene
HomeSlice
QUOTE
Fun scene

Thanks Spleen!

QUOTE
Also, when Trot shows her ass, is she jumping while in that pose? Quite an athlete.

yeah ... it was in the script and I couldn't think of anything better. It's funny to me. Hopefully, viewers will just watch it and not give too much thought to how she is able to jump up with her hands on her ankles ...

QUOTE
I assume the King says "Let the spell commence!" or something in the previous scene

In the previous scene (2_16_02), SC confronts Krewl and Krewl has him tied up and tells everyone that his "straw may strengthen the flame to make the spell all the more powerful".
http://amfilms.hash.com/video/114/21602-Draft-3
HomeSlice
OK, finally, next pass. Got Witchie and Trot animated.
KenH
Looking good. Trots reaction at frame 1627 seems a little too slow. It's like there are just two sets of keyframes very far apart.
HomeSlice
QUOTE
Looking good. Trots reaction at frame 1627 seems a little too slow. It's like there are just two sets of keyframes very far apart.

Everything from that shot to the end of the scene is supposed to be slow motion. Can you think of anything I can do to make sure the audience interprets it as Slow Motion instead of just bad timing?
MJL
Good work, Holmes,

Slowing down the sound (Drawing it out and lowering the pitch over time) at the same time you begin the slow motion shot usually does the trick
KenH
QUOTE
Everything from that shot to the end of the scene is supposed to be slow motion. Can you think of anything I can do to make sure the audience interprets it as Slow Motion instead of just bad timing?


Ooooh. Maybe adding a slow anticipation to trot would give that impression. And perhaps the frame rate could be dropped to give it a more jerky motion. See here for some funny slow mo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2QAGVMlns4
HomeSlice
Animated the rest of the characters and added the crowd panels. The guards have a transparency map, so they look kinda strange at the moment. Should look OK when rendered.
5MB, ~1.5 minutes
NancyGormezano
Animation - Very Good!

But the sound...is ...um...er...how shall I say...jes plain...truly...pitifully...painfully...horrifically...awful.

It seems as if the audio was manipulated to sound even worse than the original...something I would never have guessed possible.

It's hard to watch more than once.

But it did make me laugh...in a nervous, cringing, tic way





KenH
The "brow blinking" of SC in the beginning is a little distracting. He's doing it too much I think. And is Gloria crying? She's in a trance and so doesn't care about anything enough to cry about it.
Yeah, the sound sounds tinny? I how it slows down in the end though. However, it could be a little long on the last camera angle.
Nice going on the rest.
HomeSlice
I noticed the compressed audio in the clip does sound ... strange. The wav file I cut together sounds much better. It is in the 2_17_01 folder if you want to listen to it. Hopefully the fidelity will hold up when exported to DVD. I don't know why the sound distorts so much more than other audio, but in the future, if we need extra dialog recorded, please save as 16bit, 44KHz uncompressed wav.

QUOTE
And is Gloria crying? She's in a trance and so doesn't care about anything enough to cry about it.

I don't *think* there is anything explicit in the script that says she is in a trance here, so hopefully there won't be any obvious inconsistency, and anyway, I think I'm done with this one. It was a tough one.

QUOTE
However, it could be a little long on the last camera angle.

Yeah. Didn't know what to do about it though. I tried various speeds and this one seemed to work best even though it drags out the last shot. In the next scene, we cut to TM and Grasshopper watching from a near by hill, so I'm hoping I can cut a few frames out of this scene in the edit stage.

NancyGormezano
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Mar 7 2010, 07:46 PM) *
I noticed the compressed audio in the clip does sound ... strange. The wav file I cut together sounds much better. It is in the 2_17_01 folder if you want to listen to it. Hopefully the fidelity will hold up when exported to DVD. I don't know why the sound distorts so much more than other audio, but in the future, if we need extra dialog recorded, please save as 16bit, 44KHz uncompressed wav.


Yes, the wav file in folder: data/Act II/Seq17-Hide&Seek/Sc01/audio/2_17_01.wav - does sound better (at least it sounds like what I gave you) -

your project however is NOT referencing that wav file. It's looking for something under so_voice_tracks/2_17_01.wav. Is that a folder on your hard drive only? AND it is looking for WitchDialog.act under 2_17_01 (also not there)
HomeSlice
QUOTE
your project however is NOT referencing that wav file. It's looking for something under so_voice_tracks/2_17_01.wav. Is that a folder on your hard drive only?

oops, "so_voice_tracks" is where I store all the voice audio for Premiere. It is a lot easier to import audio into Premier from a single folder than hunting through the scenes (especially if something happens where I have to re-link all the audio files). But the files should be exactly the same. I just copied one and pasted it in the other directory.
QUOTE
AND it is looking for WitchDialog.act under 2_17_01 (also not there)

Thank you! I forgot to upload it. It should be there now.
NancyGormezano
well I don't know - but there is no way that I can play that project on my machine - it grinds to a halt almost - trying it in 15jplus, & 15e - I don't know how you worked with it - I can't even frame step thru it - even without the sound file...

HOWEVER ....

I just found out I had to turn off the visibility of Krewel in order for it to play at all in real-time, at any speed - no way to play it with Krewel. Even when Krewel is the ONLY thing visible. Whats up wit dat? not that it matters, cause I won't be messing with this scene - but how did you ever work with that? him?
KenH
I wonder what the goo did to Gloria then? And what is her motivation for crying? If she doesn't want to be there, she could run away as she's not tied up. Ah....if only we had a director. wink.gif

But anyway, are the bolts of lightening in this scene or not? If they are, then Tinman is too late. A script error?

WITCH smiles, (slow motion).

BOLTS OF LIGHTNING flow from WITCH's fingertips, (slow
motion).

BOLT OF LIGHTNING reaches and surrounds GLORIA, (slow
motion).

BOLT OF LIGHTING approaches GOOGLY GOO, (slow motion)...
HomeSlice
QUOTE
I just found out I had to turn off the visibility of Krewel in order for it to play at all in real-time, at any speed - no way to play it with Krewel. Even when Krewel is the ONLY thing visible. Whats up wit dat? not that it matters, cause I won't be messing with this scene - but how did you ever work with that? him?

I just hid everything but what I was working on. And I waited to import the crowd panels until the very last. I didn't have the same issue with Krewl as you had. My issue was with the crowd and guard panels. They have animated image sequences on them, so on every frame AM had to load the new images. That is what slowed down the real time display for me.

QUOTE
But anyway, are the bolts of lightening in this scene or not? If they are, then Tinman is too late. A script error?

Crap, I forgot the bolts of lightning. dry.gif I think I'll render them separately and composite them in ...
I don't know how these scenes are supposed to play out. The end of this scene is in slow motion. Then in the next several scenes, we switch back to normal motion. Then in 3_01_06, Pon jumps in front of Googly Goo (in slow motion?) just in time to get hit by the bolt.
Maybe we shouldn't have the bolts of lightning show up yet in this scene (2_17_01)? Maybe in 3_01_06 have a shot of the Witch sending out the bolts (in slow motion), then cut to Pon (in slow motion), and after Pon gets hit with the bolt, switch to normal motion?
What do you think?
NancyGormezano
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Mar 8 2010, 09:34 AM) *
I just hid everything but what I was working on. And I waited to import the crowd panels until the very last. I didn't have the same issue with Krewl as you had. My issue was with the crowd and guard panels. They have animated image sequences on them, so on every frame AM had to load the new images. That is what slowed down the real time display for me.


Ah yes...now I see..I had just turned off the visibility (models were still active) - animated sequences were still being accessed. That's a whole lotta animated sequences - and I suspect that having some decals as .mov (rather than png, or tga sequence) - might mess with sound? I understand that you purposely stretched the voice for the slo mo part - but its the non-slo mo part sound that's distorted (when rendered) as well. No matter.

QUOTE
Maybe we shouldn't have the bolts of lightning show up yet in this scene (2_17_01)? Maybe in 3_01_06 have a shot of the Witch sending out the bolts (in slow motion), then cut to Pon (in slow motion), and after Pon gets hit with the bolt, switch to normal motion?
What do you think?


You're probably not asking me, but I think you're trying to not have to mess with this scene anymore cool.gif Can't blame you.

But I also think that having the lightning bolts (or something dramatic) ending this scene, is the bridge between this and 3_01_06 - (lonnnngggg bridge) as the audience is supposed to be left hanging as to the fate of poor poor Gloria and her pure pure heart. 3_01_06 shows what happens to the lightning bolt that got sent in 2_17_01
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