OK - I'll take it on. My take on the song was that it happens around the delivery of the potion to Gloria so it might replace a small chunk of 2_14_06. I'll create a new thread for this one.

Cheers

Thank You, David. You've made my day. I was hoping, big-time, that this song would make it into Scarecrow!

I'm gonna go celebrate now with a ....a sprig of this........and a pinch of that........

Hope I'm not going to spoil your day, Myron - but I will be doing the Goo thang - I was having a difficult time getting up my courage to commit to do another song.

However, I found some teeny tiny leftover remnant of delusional confidence, in the corner in the closet (along with some gum, and dust mites) - and will give Goo a go.

Now you have made my day, Nancy. I was under the impression that you were going to give it a pass. Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!

David, Greed is a fun song. Hint... hint.....

Holmes, How about another recording session?

I see you down there....

Myron - I'll be needing a wav file instead of the wma - can you upload to svn please - or could someone convert the wma found here please - I don't have anything that will do that.

Greed is good - I'll take a look (where does it fit into the movie?)

I'm not sure that's been decided upon by the powers that be, David, but a logical place to me would seem to be shortly after 2_09_05, when Krewel ponders the bushel and a half of precious Gems Lord Googly Goo has promised him. (Seems to be a gooey film?)

Nancy, I'm sending you the .wav file via email. The forum doesn't seem to happy with the wav or the zip.

EDIT: Well I guess it did take the Zip after all. Email me if you have any trouble with it

EDIT Edit: I guess it took both of them. wierd. Guess I gotta learn more patience, I just can't wait!

Got it - Thanks! Sounds better than the wma..well...er...that is...as much as it can sound better

I only grabbed the zip file, as I am assuming it contains the same wav file that you also posted

I hope you didn't send me an email as it will probably bounce?

I can only get 7-10mb attachments, and those are BBBBIIIGGGG files.

Glad you got it. I could and would have compressed the files, if needed, but audio always sounds better to me uncompressed. Kind of like a resolution thing with imagery.
If you need them compressed give me a holler.


EDIT: OKay! Fine! If your' gonna harp on about it like that, Here! Here's an MP3!

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Probably the easiest place to put it would be after 2_09_05. That will be a challenging one. Either you will have to animate the crowd reacting to Krewl as he does his thing, or you will have to be very attentive to the camera angles so we never see the crowd. Since Googly is in 2_09_05, you should probably try to include him, or at least show him making an exit sometime during the song.
If you want to try it David, I'll add it to the spreadsheet. Let me know.

I'll take a look at it and let you know.

Yes, in that sequence, near the end Krewl decides not to take him up on the offer. I'm guessing the song has him changing him mind?

KING KREWL
I cannot force the princess to marry you just now because those strangers may interfere.

I am curious: Is there a deadline for when these songs have to be done, in order to be included?

EDIT: just looking for a ballpark guess

We are shooting for a July deadline. That's animation, rendering and initial edit. Everything except final tweaks and possibly the movie score.

Thanks - that gives me a feel for how much effort/polish to put into this.

My current feelings are that the goo song could fit in between when Krewel says "get to work" and when the guard pushes Gloria towards the witch in 2-14-06 (with straight cuts) or else right after the entire sequence when supposedly they've all left and the witch is then trying to figure out incantations/chants/potions for part deux of the "make gloria love googly" spell that she will use at the bonfire.

Thoughts?

I guess the most obvious place would be right after "get to work", but it would be a lot of work because there are so many characters in the scene. You would also have to make sure your beginning and final poses/character placements are compatible with what's already there because that scene is already being rendered. I made a few minor camera adjustments because of my obsessive compulsive nature - I'm sure you understand lol I'll have shaded render up in a few minutes.

It would probably be easier to put the song after the scene, when everyone has left. That would allow you to focus only on the witch.

[EDIT] OK, you can see 2_14_06 at:
http://www.holmesbryant.com/files/video/sc..._of_oz/animatic
(click on 2_14_06 in the play list window)

Have you started rendering 2_14_06 already? I was going to do some more work on Gloria.

What about doing the song before the group knocks on the door? They could be making their way to witch house while she is preparing the goo for Gloria. Then there would only be her in the scene too.

Edit: Holmes, the camera changes expose characters standing still. Don't final render just yet and I'll fix that too.

Ok Ken, I'll stop rendering on 2_14_06 - although Gloria looks just fine to me...

I am aware of the pros and cons of doing it either way, and having it fit in.

Can I assume that the song gets onto the render queue as its being done, just like the other sequences, regardless of where it gets put? - and that if it works out better (story wise, animation wise) to insert it after "get to work" (rather than after the sequence) - that's ok?

I was originally thinking that the other characters (krewel, guards, special assistants) would join in as part of the festivities. It would be boring to just have the witch be only character. They could show their reactions, be her taste testers, guinea pigs, do a little happy dance - but yes - dealing with Gloria "tied up" sounds like a pain.



Yes - it would be easier. Maybe. Probably. (I notice the part where they are supposed to leave hasn't been animated yet?)

If I put it after the 2-14-6 sequence, ie, a separate new sequence - I will need to create some more simple new models for witch to interact - I will probably (depends on energy level) be making other models either way (bugs butts, squirrels nuts, newts eye, mousie feet, monkey meat, etc). It would be nice, but maybe too ambitious to have some special goopie effects, with lightning, smoke, etc. I could make a small cloth voodoo Gloria dolly for Witch to practice her spells on. Or maybe even have one of Witches Yet-to-be-determined assistants play the part and be dressed as Gloria (as a comic stand-in)

It's the cramped/low lighting set that bothers me. Witch needs some room to maneuver. I might try to transition into a fantasy world - maybe as witch peers into crystal ball type thing - or she transitions into her "secret evil room in her head with copyrighted and yet to be patented nasty smells and spell-type materials"

Hmmm...interesting idea - I'll look into that - then the witch might not need to be in the cramped quarters - she could be in another part of her play house - preparing the goop...that might be the best choice.

I think breaking up the journey to witches house would add more tension and she is making the goo for Gloria after all. If need be, we could find some animals to be guinea pigs for her.....eg black cat, crow, rat, flying broom, etc.

The songs will be handled just like the regular scenes. When it's done, it will get rendered. Some scenes get rendered sooner than others. Most of the time it is because they are easier to render - either because the choreographies are better constructed and maintained (from a technical perspective) or they just have fewer things in them to cause problems. Scenes with overlapping/blended actions, Models going Active/Inactive, or lots of effects tend to be more difficult to render and will probably take longer and have a much greater chance of being modified during the render stage.


I'm doing the draft edits, but when Martin gets his mitts on the files, he will put the songs wherever he wants to put them, whether it's OK or not. So I'm going to say that, yes, it's OK.

Thanks, good to know where the problems are.

I intend to do test final renders, to try to scope out any problems and rework it for those that are a problem.

Which version are you using to render? And what are the final render settings? Unfortunately, I notice obvious differences in the way hair renders across the different 15 vers, as well as differences with MP and no MP for other things. If you point me to a chor that has the final render settings - I'll use that (unless you know the info offhand).
________________________________________________________________________________
_

I notice that there are chors 2_14_3 and 2_14_3a. My best guess for now, continuing with Ken's suggestion of placing this before the guards knock at the door, is that the song could fit around there, when SC, Trot, Pon are watching thru the window of the Witches cottage.

It seems to me, that if there are only 2 songs being done (this and Greed), it will be weird, and probably disruptive of the flow to have them in the movie. But at least Myron will get 2 of his songs animated. He has waited long enough!

I also am going to break the song up into multiple chors for easier, but not too small, chunks to deal with.

I have started splitting the wav file. I am using A:M to render the frame ranges and then QTpro to strip the audio into the smaller wav files. I assume the unsplit wav file will be used when the tga sequences from the separate chors are concatenated. I hope I don't run into timing issues this way.

I assume I will also do the final lighting for this? I would like to insert final lighting in chor before doing test renders.

I also want to do the camera work. I animate to the camera - so changing the camera usually means changing the animation.

How shall I handle any special effects, IF...big IF..., I get ambitious? Should I plan on me compositing them in a post process? Seems like an obvious place for some sort of icky, slimey, gooey fluids, but I don't know if I have the guts or brawn to tackle it.

I don't know. Jason would know. It is whatever version of netrender he has installed.


Render Options:
Quality: Final
Multipass: ON (Passes: 9(3x3), Soften ON (except if you get black dots in your render, then turn Soften off)
Depth of Field: up to you
Shadows: ON
AO: OFF
Reflections: ON (Levels 1, Soft: OFF )
Hair: ON
SSS: OFF
Fog: Up to You
Toon: OFF
Fields: OFF
Stereo: OFF
Plugin Shaders: ON (Diffuse, Specular and Ambiance set to "none")
-------------------------------

Output Options:
Format: Targa Sequence (Save Options > RLE Compression: ON )
Filename: Bubbling_Goo_Song_0000.tga
Range: Up to you.
Resolution: 720x405 (Aspect: 1)
Gamma: None
Buffers > Alpha : up to you if you want to set your chors up so you can render foreground/background or characters/set or whatever. Occasionally, splitting the render so one pass just shows characters (with alpha channel) and next pass just shows the background stuff is the only way to get a successful render from some scenes.



That will probably work. The only way to know for sure is to import quick shaded renders into Premiere (or whatever you use) and see if the frames match up to the original audio.


Go right ahead.


knock yourself out.


That's the million dollar question.
Ideally - stage your scenes so the sfx can be rendered separately and composited in - just in case I have to split the render up.
An alternate would be to stage the scene so just the effect(s) and affected character(s) can be isolated and rendered separately if needed.
A last resort would be to go hog wild and hope for the best.


If you have dynamic constraints, and you bake them. You may have to copy the keyframes from constraint.results channels in the chor to the appropriate channels for the actual bones being affected. Just copy the whole bunch of keyframes from one channel and paste into the proper channel. Jason had to do this for Ken's Googly-Krewl scene to get Googly's hat dynamics to render properly.

Thanks for all that good info. I will ask Jason what version he's running.



??? blech bluh...wha? ...er...I mean yuk.

Render wrangling is a buttload of work