I am working in v15j and think I may have found a problem but I'm not totally sure.
I created a jaw bone parented to the head.
I created a mouth corners bone also parented to the head.

I created a pose ON/OFF and created a constraint with compensates for the mouth corners to Orient Like the jaw bone 50%.

I open an action and the mouth corners bone is rotated.

I deleted the bone and pose then recreated it and the constraint.

Same result.

Then I noticed when I selected the mouth corners the coordinate system was oriented like the jaw bone.
When I selected the jaw bone the coordinate system did not change.
Selecting any other bone would change the coordinate system to match the orientation of the bone.

It seems AM thinks the mouth corners bone is in the correct orientation but it is drawing it differently.
Am I right or am I really messed up in how I think this works?????

Note the selected bone and the coordinate system orientation in each pic and the default orientation of the jaw and mouth corners bones.

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment Click to view attachment

Can you make a test case on some simple mesh that shows this and post it?

Hi Tim- Did you try turning OFF the 'store roll' setting in the orient like constraint?

I tried your suggestion but it did not change anything.

Thanks

I tried but it seems to only be this model.
It's starting to sound like a corrupt file.

I have got an error message a couple times now saying AM must close.
I tried to export the model from an action to see if it cleaned anything up but the same results remain.

Any ideas???

How about if you delete the mesh and save what's left out as the test case?

The bone is the problem, not the mesh, right?

Here is the model in a zip file.
I removed the mesh and everything but bones.
It still had the problem for me.

Make a new bone parented to the head geom bone. (I think it does it with any bone as parent)
then create a new pose ON/OFF and see the rotation of the new bone.
It will have offsets you can not change or remove.

I am using v15j

Thanks for looking at this.

Click to view attachment

I didn't have a problem in v15j...the Pose didn't add any rotation for me.

Now I'm really confused.
I have tried closing and reopening AM but it still did it.
I tried it on the "just bones" model I posted and it did it.
I exported and reloaded the model in a new project and it did it.
I created a new model and it did not do it.

I'll try downloading what I posted and try it again to see if it still messes up for me.

I downloaded the one I posted and it worked for me also.
Here is the whole model less the decals and such.
If you don't mind see if it alters the bone orientation this time.

Thanks

Click to view attachment

In the "TNT AddOn Constraints" Pose, there is a constraint on "Bone1"...delete that and it should fix things, I'm thinking.


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EDIT
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It looks like the "Back_Fan_Geom" bone changes its' name to "Bone1" in the "TNT AddOn Constraints" Pose if you add a bone...I don't know why though. Delete that bone/constraint as it appears to be screwy.

Thanks David
I would never have found that

I was going to also say...'check your compensate mode'...but it looks like you solved it.

Great looking splineage! AND- I see you have a dense scalp...looks like dynamic hair is coming!

Oddly, I had concluded the cap and denser mesh was better for controlling hair from multiple emitters but was not thinking dynamic hair because I didn't understand it.
After the great set of instructions you posted, I am wanting to set it up also.

First I got to get her shirt to quit flying all over (dynamic constraint) and stay around her torso.
Maybe I should try it as cloth and use her torso as a deflector.
I thought it was simple enough to not need that but expeerience is saying I'm wrong.

Thanks for the hair instructions,

Here is your problem. I opened your model in notepad and did a search for Bone1 (See Image). As you can see you have two names referencing the same bone "MatchName=Bone1" and "Name=Back_Fan_Geom". What you need to do is, go into notepad and search for Bone1. Where is says "MatchName=Bone1" delete Bone1 and replace it with Back_Fan_Geom. Then delete the line "Name=Back_Fan_Geom" and remove the empty space that was left as well. Save as new model file and everything should be Ok.

I'm not sure why that happened...any idea, Mark?

David had found the culprit bone as well.
Both solutions fixed the major problem however your solution kept all the constraints working which I liked.
Thanks Mark and David

It may be from the the mirror constraints plugin, bringing a model from v15 to v14, renaming the bone after the constraints were made, renaming the bone in v14, bad save, not saving the name change before running the plugin.

It's hard to say what caused it.