HomeSlice
Feb 12 2010, 06:28 PM
First pass. Just major poses, all zero-sloped. No face or lip sync yet.
Comments welcome, especially timing issues and suggestions for making any of the poses stronger or more clear.
KenH
Feb 12 2010, 06:54 PM
Muhahahahahaha! lol
It looks like SC has a double chin at times.....eg frame 783. I found my eyes drawn toward it.
There's something odd about the point at 1430. Maybe the hand needs to be turned ninety degrees. If it's left that way, maybe the thumb should be tucked in more.
At frame 1476 we get to look at the back of SCs hat for a few seconds. Maybe changing to a side angle camera would overcome this.
The anticipation at 1880 seems to last a tad too long for my liking.
I'm sure you'll have SC struggling in the ropes.
It's looking like it'll be a fun sequence. Nicely done.
Muhahahahahaha!
NancyGormezano
Feb 12 2010, 08:25 PM
Looks quite good - love the "tie-ing up twirl" - very very clever
On first glance it seems as if there are too many gestures with "pointing" - usually coinciding with obvious references to "you", or "I", or Ozland - perhaps use other body language instead (in particular around frames 775, 1222, 1288, 1428, 1594, 1654, 2442).
I would also say it seems as if there are lots of full on front posing of SC and Krewel - would be good to mix it up with 3/4 view, side view postures.
For example - around 476, might be good to have krewel sit back (rather than lean forward, repeating his previous acting). He could sit in his throne sideways-ish, not really looking at SC, being coy and pretending he doesn't know what has happened.
I don't understand Krewel's pose at around 1895 - right before Krewel says "Attack". I would also expect there to be some surprise/startled response from SC after he hears "Attack" - but perhaps at this stage you hadn't put that in yet.
With SC - when he gets bold - I think it would be good to "puff him up" - ie, move those elbows away from body, arch back, most of the time he looks "tight, caved in".
IMPRESSIVE start, indeed!
Rodney
Feb 13 2010, 07:03 AM
Ooooh. That's good!
Going back to view a few more times with an eye for offering suggestions in the areas you mention but as a first look... Bravo!
Edit:
I'll offer this: At or about frame 1450 I think you can get more of Krewl's anger into the pose by having him lean even farther forward.
This might make the camera have to step back a little but that'd be fine by me.
This is a tense moment and you can hear it in Krewl's dialogue through his gritted teeth.
You can feel his anger building and then suddenly being released. (although not all of it apparently)
A lean futher forward to the most tense part of the dialogue should further heighten the tension.
This is a perfect place for an Extreme!
HomeSlice
Feb 16 2010, 12:34 AM
Second pass. I tried to incorporate all your suggestions.
Added breakdowns and inbetweens. No facial animation yet. I can't upload to AM Films at the moment, so I'm back to uploading FLV movies to my web host for the time being.
http://www.holmesbryant.com/files/video/work_in_progress/
Jason Simonds
Feb 16 2010, 11:23 AM
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Feb 16 2010, 12:34 AM)

Second pass. I tried to incorporate all your suggestions.
Added breakdowns and inbetweens. No facial animation yet. I can't upload to AM Films at the moment, so I'm back to uploading FLV movies to my web host for the time being.
http://www.holmesbryant.com/files/video/work_in_progress/I'm sorry some files in our cgi-bin folder had a permissions change when we copied them from 'bandit.hash.com' it's working now.
KenH
Feb 16 2010, 01:32 PM
Much improved. Some small points:
1) Frame 590....his eyes go almost white. Looks odd.
2) Frame 815....SC isn't centre frame. Maybe it's intended.
3) Frame 1652....SC's right hand intersects the bottom of his jacket. Not too obvious, but I noticed it.
HomeSlice
Feb 16 2010, 03:04 PM
QUOTE
2) Frame 815....SC isn't centre frame. Maybe it's intended.
This is an experiment. I would like to increase the sense that SC is trying to place pressure on Krewl. Or at least increase the overall tension. I thought maybe if I make SC crowd the left side of the frame, it would add the desired tension, but I've looked at it so much I can't tell if it is really giving the desired effect.
How does it make you feel?
KenH
Feb 16 2010, 03:24 PM
OK. It could work even though it's not part of "cinematic language" that audiences expect. I'm just worried that it might look like a camera error to other people. It seems like the camera drifts to the right too so you may get what you're aiming for more if it's obvious SC is the one that initiates the move.
But as for myself, the first time I saw it, I was concentrating less on the story and more on the camera. I wonder how others feel about it?
PS I think it would be more acceptable if there was something to look at on the right hand side. Perhaps there will be a crowd?
HomeSlice
Feb 16 2010, 04:34 PM
QUOTE
if there was something to look at on the right hand side. Perhaps there will be a crowd?
Yeah I'm going to put the crowd in once I get SC and Krewl done.
HomeSlice
Feb 16 2010, 10:25 PM
Third Pass. Added all the rest of the stuff. Unless there is anything glaring out at anyone, I'll call this one Done.
higginsdj
Feb 16 2010, 11:30 PM
Yep - thats good.
itsjustme
Feb 17 2010, 12:24 AM
That was very well done, Holmes!
HomeSlice
Feb 17 2010, 01:02 PM
Thanks guys
NancyGormezano
Feb 17 2010, 01:10 PM
I add my "looks good" - as for personal taste: I would say there are areas that could use some refinement - there are some very nice touches
BrainLock
Feb 17 2010, 05:13 PM
One thing that strikes me is that Scarecrow and the king have very similar body language. They hold and move their arms and hands very similarly to one another. Is that in purpose?
HomeSlice
Feb 17 2010, 05:39 PM
QUOTE(BrainLock @ Feb 17 2010, 05:13 PM)

One thing that strikes me is that Scarecrow and the king have very similar body language. They hold and move their arms and hands very similarly to one another. Is that in purpose?
I'm still developing as an animator. I was so wrapped up in just trying to make sure the animation doesn't suck too bad, I didn't think to try to make their movements different.
I think it might be a good idea for a writer to include character studies of all the main characters in his/her script - habits, past history, secret motivations ... all those things that make up how a character moves and responds to it's environment. That way, everyone can be on the same page about how to animate a character. This will help the animators conform to what the writer is imagining. There are so many little things that aren't explicit in a script.
However, an animator has to be pretty good to make use of such a character study. It is hard enough just to make a model move, making it move according to a psych profile takes a whole other level of skill. We're getting there though!
BrainLock
Feb 17 2010, 06:57 PM
I think it would be the director's job -- define each character's physical personality traits and keep close eye on the animation work in progress to guide the animators and ensure each character is distinct and consistent through the film.
HomeSlice
Feb 17 2010, 07:03 PM
QUOTE(BrainLock @ Feb 17 2010, 06:57 PM)

I think it would be the director's job -- define each character's physical personality traits and keep close eye on the animation work in progress to guide the animators and ensure each character is distinct and consistent through the film.
Yes, you are probably right ... but we don't have a director. None of the OZ flicks will probably ever have a director ... it's a long story.
higginsdj
Feb 17 2010, 07:59 PM
At this stage I think it more important that we keep the same characters behaving in the same manner from scene to scene (animated by different people). I don't think there are many people in the forum (let alone the movie) who are overly qualified as animators

I for one didin't notice this trait between SC and the King (and still can't see it) but I will certainly admit I do not have an eye for this sort of thing.
Cheers
KenH
Feb 18 2010, 08:16 AM
Nice job. I assume you animated the guard "faces".
John Bigboote
Feb 18 2010, 08:34 AM
Good looking scene! How did you embed the video into the forum...Clipshare?
HomeSlice
Feb 18 2010, 10:09 AM
QUOTE(John Bigboote @ Feb 18 2010, 08:34 AM)

Good looking scene! How did you embed the video into the forum...Clipshare?
Thanks Matt!
If you upload your video to A:M Films, there is a box to the right of the video labeled "A:M Foums Link:"
Copy the text in that box and paste it directly into a forum post and Voila! Embedded video.
Jason Simonds
Feb 18 2010, 12:00 PM
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Feb 18 2010, 10:09 AM)

QUOTE(John Bigboote @ Feb 18 2010, 08:34 AM)

Good looking scene! How did you embed the video into the forum...Clipshare?
Thanks Matt!
If you upload your video to A:M Films, there is a box to the right of the video labeled "A:M Foums Link:"
Copy the text in that box and paste it directly into a forum post and Voila! Embedded video.
Holmes is right all videos posted on A:MFilms can be embedded in our forums.
HomeSlice
Feb 18 2010, 12:31 PM
QUOTE(John Bigboote @ Feb 18 2010, 12:17 PM)

I have to try this...
<embed width="452" height="361" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" name="main" id="main" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" src="http://amfilms.hash.com/player/vPlayer.swf?f=http://amfilms.hash.com/player/vConfig_embed.php?vkey=e74d3df8527599fa6264" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" />
You have to use the text in the "A:M Foums Link:" box. The text will be wrapped in
CODE
[media][/media]
tags.
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