Ok, so I'm working on a one of the characters for Earth Link, and I'm not terrific at character modeling, as I've modeled a total of two horribly disfigured looking characters in my time with AM. So here's a serious attempt at one of the characters, but as you can see in the following pics, it's not quite...good. It's kind of chunky and pinchy, and I can't for the life of me figure out how to do the nose or get those lips right. So, help would be nice, and for those who might be able to show me/lend a hand at smoothing the face out, I'll also post the mdl file.

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Looking good so far

No mesh can not be smoothed, but you can avoid creating extra work for your self by not making meshes with closely spaced CPS in the middle of widely spaced CPs. the closer a CP is to it's neighbor the tighter the connection.

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that's definitely a lot of help, thanks. i'm gonna try that as soon as i can get on the other PC

I am going to be following this thread with a lot of interest. I am no good at organic modelling either, and I now need to create a human model. So I will definitely be watching here for any tips and pointers.

Al

ok, i've reduced the mesh some from your pointers, but now i'm stuck with a big open hole and still no idea how to make the flares on the nostril

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EDIT: Fixed the huge hole

Thats looking good ,the nostrils ,use a ring inside and make a extrusion going up inside the nose
edit
this is bashed about a bit

thanks, that helps that section a lot. i have most of the nose itself done, i got rid of a tonne of splines which made things simpler

You could do a better job than me as Im a lousy modeler but maybe it will help get the idea

ok, so my nose isn't quite as simple on the splines as yours is, so more working is needed on it, but here's where im at now

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hi i think you should move that cp connection to here
your head is being pushed forward
here is a shot of a head i was doing and yours for an example

yeah, but isn't that something you do after the mask is completed?like, that means adding more splines, and i'm just focusing on the mask before i do the cranium

well, i did the copy flip attach and then tweaked it up in mirror mode so here's the face now and i'm surprised that i find myself almost happy with it!

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actually it will free up more splines
and you will use less in the end

hmmm, well, doing the rest of the head is next, so i suppose that's what i'll do next. i did a little more tweaking and then threw on a skin like color and here's a render:

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Its looking prety good you can get it done then play around to get it more how you want it ,then when your happy you can do a cfa again.I still mess with it a little after rigging

what exactly does CFA stand for

there doesn't happen to be a tut on how to do backs of heads kickin around anywhere, cause i'm having a very difficult time with it

Hang in there, Darkwing. It gets easier ...well, except for the ears. :-)

The back of the head is not nearly as important as the front, so you can get by with less patches there.

yeah, it's just difficult to tie everything in there. as for the ears, i'm just gonna copy and paste the ones from the extras disk

but yeah, the back of the head is proving difficult because i can't seem to lay down the splines right or something without making a bumpy warpy mess

I think once eyes and teeth are put in he will be a great character!

It looks good to me Darkwing. I like the way you have the splines set up. The first thing i would do is decide the level of detail each spline is gonna represent. In your drawings you show some details of how you want the face to look. Now you have to be more specific. This is where you will start smoothing the model out. As you tweak each point or group press the (t) key get everything to flow right.

Hi Darkwing not sure if it's a can of worms
but i took your mdl
and did a basic Barry Zundel setup for you
as you can see you'll get a whole 1/2 head profile which make setting up all the cps front and back
and your head won't get pushed forward
i had to use your posted templates to use as a roto so it is diff then your setup
also set the transparinsy of the roto's to about 50% makes it easier to mdl

Hi,
It would possible to write an entire book just about modeling in AM, and while I don't know about explaining 'backs of heads', I hope I can offer some help. It is important for you to understand 3 dimensional space and the fact that the splines are occupying this space. The rotoscopes exist as guidelines but the FORM of the model is something you must have worked out in your head before you begin.
I took the liberty of reworking your model. It was difficult because I don't really know what the character should look like. I tried to use landmarks that you established in the original. I deleted 6 splines; all the rest are the same and in the original layout you created. So in essence I just moved the points around.

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It is not perfect of course but I hope it can shed some light on how splines are handled by AM in certain situations. Bear in mind also that when modeling for animation, certain mesh layouts are easier to work with than others. Your current layout is ok but could be improved, especially around the mouth area, but I'll leave such decisions up to you.

Here is the revised model file (v13t). Keep at it and it will become easier. Also study real sculptures if possible, or better yet make some. The fundamentals of art are always important even in cg.
Hope this helps.
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>what exactly does CFA stand for

<Copy/Flip/Attach

and here`s my small tut, just in case you didn`t see it...

At the back of your head you don`t need much splinedensity,

or do you want to show him bald all the time?
SoI would try minimizing splinedensity
by using hooks...

Also try the skinshader for your head.
It`s under pluginshaders, like the matcap shader.

Think of models as made up of different shapes. Some are complex such as the mouth, but the back of the head could be done by lathing a semi-sphere and stitching it in to place.

oops, i forgot to post the mdl that went with the coloured render i did, because the old mdl was wrong and was before rob helped me with his diagrams, i'll post the mdl as it is now

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he does have hair, i just drew him without as it would be easier to get the overall shape of his head without the hair

>Think of models as made up of different shapes. Some are complex such as the mouth, but the back of the head could be done by lathing a semi-sphere and stitching it in to place.

<Then of course you would have to redo the CFA later!

ya, that i see, but things are working now and i'm onto the neck now

well, i haven't FCA'd yet, but I attached the ear. The side of the head itself is a little rough, but that's ok as it'll be covered by hair anyways

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EDIT: And a full head, my very first human looking model at last!!!!

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Pretty dang good for a first attempt! Still some unnecessary splines IMO but overall nice work.

there were fewer splines, but attaching those ears added some density in areas that were initally only like one patch. Perhaps you could show me where I can lower my density though

hmm, a question i have regarding building the body. If the character is supposed to be clothed, should I build a skin mesh and then a clothes mesh on top of it, because every time i've done that, when you do animation, the skin mesh will come through the clothes mesh when it bends and stuff. so what's the best way, also, i'm toying with the idea of using simcloth for the clothing materials

i copied the gen man's body for the torso and it seems to work:

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Looking good ,did you try the porcelain matt

no, i haven't, i kind of dislike porcelain as it tends to make the model go funny and have black spots where there shouldn't be any

That usually only happens when the normals are pointing the wrong way.

yes, i have noticed that, i think it also happens if there's like minute warps or where a five pointer connects with th rest of the mesh, but i'll give it a try anyways

Keep going looking good. Is this your first organic?

Steve

well, i've attempted organics several times in the last few years, so i'd say if you added them up, this would be attempt number 4ish, but most never got farther then the "extrude the nose spline three times" bit. oh wait, that would be the beginning of the tut.

Looks good. You could put another ring around the ear and place the hooks there. That would smooth certain areas out.

Generally, no. Build the things that are visible. The coat, not the skin under neath it.

ok, thanks

Darkwing, here's just a quick sketch where you can put hooks (circles) and delete splines (x's). It also seems you have a lot of splines in the tip of the nose compared to around the eyes and mouth, but that's more of 1) a judgment call, and 2) a question for those who have more experience animating faces. My best guess is that you can add an additional spline ring around the eyes and mouth, but I think others here will know better.

But you definitely don't need so many splines in the side of the head and in the scalp area.

thanks, i'll look at that as soon as possible. in the meantime, here's almost the full body:

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and a note, about all of the body is just me copy and pasting the genman body and manipulating it. saves a lot of time and headache that way

so, i've pretty much finished with the modeling, and now it's time for (dum dum dum) rigging. where do I start?

Well I would sugest the 2008 rig as its (I find ) the easiest to install but there are a few realy good rigs now ,the light rig is very good and of coars the tsm rig
read the instructions over first to see whats involved and get a handle on it

and seeing as this is becoming a common issue with me, are these set-ups compatible with V.13?