Placeholder for 2_12_01. Here is the initial blocking for the first 450 frames:

WIP 1 (1.5mb QT H.264)

Cheers

Hi David,
Will you please upload what you've done so far to SVN? I have your last activity as 11/26 but no files have been uploaded.

Thanks.

Updated. I haven't forgotten about the scene

Thanks David.

Finally got around to a little more animating. 15i seems reasonably reliable though it does seem to crash on that odd frame every now and then in OSX.

Latest update: 2_12_01 (2.5mb QT)

Cheers

Looks good so far David. Thanks.

Another small update:

2_12_01 (1.8mb .mp4)

Cheers

Nice gestures. A few points:

Nancy really gets into this part and "holds" on some of the words. So, you'll have to watch for that in the lipsync. Looks fairly ok already except for the word "right" and "love". Here mouth could remain open a little longer. Then the end needs more work too but I'm sure you'll getting to it later.

Will the bag be animated? He looks a little squashed in where he is. Maybe he could be turned around ninty degrees? And he might be more obvious on the other side of the witch?

In the beginning, we can see the witch slowly build up to her first gesture. It makes that gesture less spontaneous. A suggestion would be to have her hand on her chin (indicating thought) while listening to Krewl and then remove it in shock at what he says. In the clip when it does go to her chin, it doesn't stay there long enough.......making it feel like she's running through the motions rather than following her feelings. That's probably over analysing but it's how it comes across to me.

Witch isn't as manoeuvrable as other characters. Her chin goes through her chest at 208 and then her "shoulder pads" at 340. Maybe smartskins would get us some of the way there?

It's coming along nicely though. Keep it up!

Edit: Just a tip David. I took a look at your project and I would recommend putting a the lip sync into a separate action. That way if you need to shift the body gestures alone, you don't move the lip sync keys too.

Thanks Ken,

You know I had forgotten all about the lip synch in a separate action.

What is the deal with the bag? As far as I am aware I left it on the ground throughout. Should she always be carrying it?

Up until yesterday I was having real issues with AM and how slow the interface was to animate in. I sped it up a little making some adjustments but it is still quite slow to animate in (ie I can't scrub in real time like I used to be able to). Can I turn off decals or something else (I already have it in shaded mode, 1 poly per patch and the other characters turned off and I'm running this on Core 2 Duo's with a minimum of 3gb RAM and ATI radeons with 256 - 512mb RAM in Windows 7 and OSX)

Cheers

Oh yes, please put body animation and facial animation in separate actions.

Strange. There's no slowing here. Maybe it's the dynamics in her hat? I dampened them a little more on her.
The bag is a character that walks along side witchy. Minimal movement will do in this shot.

I've noticed that with v15, real time fps are much slower with the "dynamics" poses turned OFF (the on/off poses with the dynamic constraints). When I turn them ON, real time display is much faster for me. Maybe check to see if the witch's dynamics pose is ON?

Actually I just went into tools\options and unchecked the dynamic constraints and now I am back to virtual real time..... (at least in the action window)

Cheers

New version uploaded - no change to the lipsync though.

Latest

I just committed the files but it also included the Witch model. I don't know why as I didn't change anything on the model itself (though I did do some spline/CP animation .....)

Cheers

Looks great David. Nice acting choices.
between 246 and 283, the thumb looks a little stiff.
248-284: The witch's eyes seem like they might be dangerously close to the "TV Safe" area. Maybe tilt the camera up slightly?
295-310: the witch's arms both travel up in straight lines. It might help to move them in arcs instead.
A few frames before the witch clasps her hands at 313, it would help if the fingers and hands extended backward a little to make the motion more dynamic.
368-380: the witch makes a sweeping gesture with her left hand in a straight line. The motion might be more interesting if the arm moved in an arc by lowering the forearm half way through the motion.
391-410: her left hand and fingers look like they are frozen as the hand tilts. Maybe animate the fingers and thumb as the hand moves.
428-444: both arms move at the same rate as the shift in weight. Maybe vary the rate of movement of the arms so they don't look so symmetrical.
526: maybe rotate the left hand down so when it raises up on "SO", it is a little more dramatic.
524-571: the fingers on her left hand are frozen. Maybe extent them out around 544 to loosen them up a bit.
You probably haven't gotten to the eyes yet ... but just in case ... the eyes need to be animated.

Thanks Holmes, I love this type of critique

I'm in 2 minds about the eyes, should they be animated as part of the dialogue action or the main action. I don't want to do it in both places lest things get a bit funky when they are combined...

I'm on holidays at the moment so I should have another revision done later today.

Cheers

Oh eyes definitely in the chor action. You need to see where to point them and that will influence how wide they should be. Same for blinks which usually occur on eye switches.

Yeah, it's hard to get the eyes right if you animate them in the dialog action ... IF you do the lip sync (dialog) in a separate Action window. If the lip sync is in the same chor action as the facial animation, it is probably more of a matter of taste. In most of the rigs, the eye animate bone doesn't show up until you turn on the face controls, so I animate the eyes in my "Face" chor action so I don't have to remember to turn off the face controls in both the main (body) chor action and the face chor action.

For a while I thought it was important to have the lip sync in a separate action than the rest of the facial animation, but I can't remember now why that seemed so important if you aren't using the dope sheet ...

Because if you have a character looking around when not speaking (eyes done in chor action), you may want to use those expression nulls. They'd interfere with any expressions done in the dialogue action. Of course, that's not always the case but I like to have a standard system to keep it simple for myself.

Updated based on Holmes suggestions.

Updated

Is the eye aiming bone only available in the FACE interface?

Cheers

On the witch, bill, trot, scarecrow, googly goo - the eye aiming bone is only available in the FACE interface.
In Krewl, it is available even when the face controls are off.

You could use the "Master_EyeTarget" without turning on the FACE controls by turning on the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/eyes_aim_at_Master_EyeTarget" Pose.

I'll change it for the next rig release so that you can use the "EyeAimerBone" without turning the FACE controls on.

Personally I'd prefer it the way it is (to discourage its use). The eye aimer bone follows the head bone and makes it looks like the head is leading the eyes when the reverse is always the case.

Looking pretty good David. She could probably use a few holds to make her a little less "drifty" and more "snappy". Particularly on the big words like "love". A big anticipation would be nice too. The dialogue still isn't there. The word love for example needs another keyframe to hold her mouth closed and then quickly open for the word.

That's funny, I work just the opposite way. I almost never use "Aim at Master Eye Target". For me, it's a lot quicker to animate with the eye aimer bone.

The eye aimer bone needs adjusting every time the head is moved to keep the character looking at a particular spot. The eye null only needs to be moved when the eyes need to move. I'm not seeing how it's quicker.

It would probably be slower for you because you prefer to animate the master null. For me, it is quicker to grab the eye aimer bone to animate the eyes than to zoom out to hunt for the master null and try to place it in the right x,y and z position every time I want to move the eyes.

To prove I'm not making this stuff up.

http://www.siggraph.org/education/material...asseter_s94.htm

True, it's different techniques, but that's my whole point. The eyes and the head should never be a single entity, which the eye aimer bone makes them. And the eyes are where 90% of the performance comes from.

Unless one is an owl. Owls can't move their eyes in their sockets. That's why they rotate their heads almost all way round.

Fake pretend owls are a different story of course.

Now that I didn't know. Learn something every day.

I'm not arguing about the principle. I agree with you. For whatever reason, my bizarre brain just thought it was funny that we use different techniques to achieve the same thing.

David, that looks great. Any further critiquing (by me) would just be a matter of taste. The eyes still need to be animated though ... how you do that is up to you

If you're doing the same thing as me it would mean moving the eye aimer bone a heck of a lot, thus making it slower. Otherwise, we'd only need one eye system. But there I'll leave it.

Another update (almost to the end). Some changes to the action, eyes are animated but not the face/dialogue as yet.

Update

Cheers

I went through your update a few times looking for any glaring things to critique, but it looks fine I know you like detailed criticisms, but all I can say on that front is that all of us will continue to get better the more we practice all this stuff. What you have there is great so far.

I can't download it....

David,
I scrubbed through and find a lot to like in the scene as you have it thus far.
I thought I would sit down and write some detailed comments on what I might do if I were the one making the refinements.
As you've noted elsewhere in the forum, it can take some time to properly analyse and comment.
Complicate that with the fact that some thoughts might just be one course of action from many I'm not sure it'd be of much use.

I will offer the follow as it might hit the 20/80 rule.
I think where you'd gain the best bang for the buck would be on or about frame 685 where the Witch ends her phrase with the words "At Once". I think there is opportunity to emphasize this area a lot. As you have it now, the Witches body doesn't appear to be effected by the emphasis in her voice at all. As an actor on a stage I'd say she has missed her mark.

A byproduct of more emphasis and timely gesture at this mark might lead to what was going to be my second area of study. As Robert Holmen might say... look for places where you can avoid the dreaded 'rhetorical point' where the witch sticks one single pointing finger out. It might be okay to have one but without good reason to go there and stabbingly pointing something obvious out, one rhetorical point is likely more than enough (that's why its called a 'rhetorical' point, after all.).

You've dealt with this well at frame 146 where she lays her hand across her chest and with other hand gestures throughout the sequence. Get into the Witches mind and it will direct her arms to a more logical point and the hands will look more natural. As they stand now... it works... but something to consider for refinement at key points.

Added: I really like the camera work that stays with the witch and maximizes screen left/screen right. Well done.

Hi Rodney,

Yes, the second point gesture - agreed will look at replacing this. What is the 20/80 rule?

Cheers

You may know it as the Pareto Principle.
In general it is a principle that breaks down cause and effect.
20 percent of a causal factor produces 80 percent of the effect.
Alternately, the remaining 80 percent produces only 20 percent of the effect.

So spending a lot of time working through the 80 percent won't likely get you to the most important (perhaps critical) 20 percent.

Applied here it would mean that finding the most important places in the sequence (the 20 percent) will resolve a majority of the problems the audience will percieve. This would likely yield a 80 percent solution and then (after reviewing the purpose of the scene ) we can start the process over again on a new (critical) 20 percent.

A shorter translation: Find the focus and concentrate there. (but don't spend too much time before reviewing again... you'll exceed the law of dimenishing returns and get a ticket!)


Edit: Decided I should look up the definition and it may be referred to more often as the 80/20 rule.
Seems backward to me but... ah well.

Pretty good David.
People don't really point at themselves though (I guess it's rude) and then to use all their fingers or the palm of their hands. That's on frame 586.
The gesture at 688 is too long in the making and appears floaty. I think putting in another keyframe to keep her arms down longer would make a big difference.

You might want to think about all the twinning at the end. I don't mind them myself as people do them naturally all the time. However, too many of them can become distracting.

Have a 4 day long weekend this weekend so will hopefully get this one finished......

Well, a concerted effort and I think this one is done. Not fond of animating the witch but I do like the kings face.

Final

Cheers

I like it David! Well done.
The more times I watch it... the more I like it.

The only thing that comes to mind with the length of time the witch is on screen is that you may need one or two more strategic squints or blinks. Near frames 550 and 700 are the two areas at appear somewhat blink-needy.

Here is a Tips & Tricks from Shawn Kelly where he suggests (among other things) that we blink when our thoughts change and we refresh our internal view... the blink betrays a change in our internal thought process.

http://www.animationtipsandtricks.com/2009...-animation.html

All this for what its worth.

I love your dialogue/lipsync. It appears to be emanating from her!

That looks great David. Thanks.
Please upload your work to svn. The last time you uploaded was Jan 21.

Good point. 'Stop Staring' I have all these books and references but never read them. I guess I should sit down and digest them. I'll fix the blinks.

Edit: I just checked and I already have blinks at those 2 points! Are they not appearing in the uploaded shot are are they just too fast?

Cheers

Well... the blinks were either there already or you added them in your sleep because I see blinks there now.
I like it 'AS IS'.

I spent quite a bit of time scrubbing through and only counted two real blinks.
Now there are four. Go figure.
<cornfused>

Sorry if I confused you.
Looks great!

OK - we'll call this one done. Update to the repository.

Cheers

Good job, David! I liked the way the witch said "magic power" and when she's pointing at the "princess" line. It must be entertaining to see you acting the witch out in front of the mirror, !

LOL. I don't actually have a mirror set up and most of the time I just act it out inside my head (trying to develop that 'minds eye'). I've tried taking video reference with my iMac webcam but they haven't been too successful - I think I am too self conscious and that tends to spoil the 'acting' - if you can call it that. It is good for seeing the mechanics of movement though.

Cheers

Status report says this one is still in progress.... Have I forgotten to do something?

Cheers

Sorry David, I set it to "complete" in the spreadsheet, just haven't exported a pdf in a while. I'm trying to get 2_09 (the first sequence in the second half of the movie) rendered and edited together at the moment. I'll export a new status pdf soon ...