Hi, here's the extreme keys for the dialog part of the scene. There's no facial animation yet. My 15g crashed everytime when doing final render for this scene. Does it render on yours? Sorry, the vid is kind of big.

Hi Andy,
Looking good so far.

Your extremes are the really important poses, so you should nail them. In some poses, TM still looks like a work in progress.
With Interpolation set to Hold, it is hard for me to get a feel for the timing and motion, so I can't really comment on that part. I use paired keyframes to keep a character in place until the next pose. But if it works for you, that's what counts

I reverted back to v15f when we were having trouble selecting characters in the chor, but I don't remember have trouble rendering when I was using 15g....

There is still work to be done after you animate a scene. Camera, DOF, MoBlur, Fog and Lighting all have to be finalized, so there really isn't much point in final rendering at this stage ... unless, of course, you just want to.

Good start! The axe raising is standing out for me. You may consider varying it on maybe the line "But this is the only way". He might look around to confirm that it is the only way. Love the arm/elbow movement in the middle. (Why doesn't quicktime have a time stamp? And quicktime always "sticks" in places when I play it.)

That usually happens to me when I'm trying to play a large uncompressed video, or a video that is straight out of AM. When I recompress them, they always play back smoothly.

Andy,
When re-compressing these draft renders for the forum please try to use these settings:

Holmes,
You can re-compress video in A:M?

Yeah, what I found hard working "pose to pose" was to picture how to make the extremes "gel" together without seeing the inbetweens. I'm sure it will be clearer after the breakdowns. Which poses still look like WIP, Holmes? Btw, does TM have a proxy model?


Did you mean too much axe raising?


Did you mean he just looks around without pointing with axe like he's doing now?


Yeah, me too!



Ok. What program do you use?

Thanks for the input, guys!

Yes and yes.

If you delete the hiding of the model bone in the "Show_and_Hide_Rig_Components/hide_face_setup_bones/mouth/hide_mouth_lr_bones" Pose, you should be able to select the characters in the Choreography in v15g, Holmes. Here is a version of Trot with the change. Here's what Steffen thinks is going on:



Hope that helps.

I've fixed Trot, Bill and Pon. Back on v15g.

Well, you can import a movie into AM, right-click on the movie and choose "Save Animation As". But AM generally doesn't seem to compress movies as well as Quicktime Pro, so I use Quicktime Pro to compress my movies. I render all my shaded preview movies to a "SO Movies" folder, when a render is done in AM, I click on the "Play Animation File" button, which always opens to the SO Movies Folder, since that's the only folder I open using this button. The movie opens in Quicktime and I just Export the movie with the new compression settings.

If you don't have Quicktime Pro, Super does a good job on just about every file format except flv. Super will export flv movies, but according to Fuchur, the quality is not as good as if you use Adobe's Video Encoder.

You can download Super here,
http://www.erightsoft.info/GetFile.php?SUPERsetup.exe

Instructions are here:
http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html

No, no proxy model. You can set the "object render mode" to "hidden" for models you are not currently working on. That will speed up your real time fps considerably.


We all have an abundance of opinions, Andy. None of us are animation Gods - yet We just have opinions....
Around frames 41,50,57,85,92,109,156,261, 350 - TM is holding the axe in an unnatural way. Sure, TM is really strong, but the axe looks like is has no weight. It is almost impossible to hold an axe like that without a lot of effort, but TM makes the axe look weightless. An easy way to correct this is to tone down the movement of the axe quite a bit.

frame ~57. In addition, his hand is separating from the handle.

Make heavy use of "Contrapposto" poses ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapposto )
and S-Curves ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_Curve_%28art%29 )

An oversimplified description of these poses is to *almost* always have the chest/shoulders tilted in one direction while the hips are tilted in the opposite direction, so they form something like ">", where the top line of the arrow is the line of the nipples and the bottom line of the arrow is the line of the hips.

*Almost" every time the character changes position, alternate the directions of the chest and hips - ie. In the first pose it would look like "<" - the spine looks like ")" . The second pose would look like ">" - the spine looks like "(". The third pose would look like "<". And so on.

Also, please put all facial animation, including eye blinks, in a separate "Face" Chor Action.

Ok, I will give the axe some weight but it shouldn't be too heavy for him, right?



I have to carefully use those too, right? Because I think they can make the characters look relaxed.



I plan to use regular action for facial animation so the head will not be moving around. Is that ok? I tried constraining a camera to the character's face in chor but for some reason I couldn't get it to work.

All the characters have a camera pointed at their faces already. You have turn on the facial controls to see it. Then just press 1 twice and you're in it.

Oh, cool beans!

Right. If you have an axe at home, maybe you can practice holding it in various poses to get a feel for how your body compensates. Pretend that TM holding his axe is like a normal healthy person holding an axe.


It is a lot easier to stiffen up a character that looks too relaxed than it is to relax a character that looks too stiff. You probably are not going to have to worry about TM looking too relaxed, especially if you give the axe some weight.

Here's the inbetweens for "I can't believe that Scarecrow would walk across this!" part of the dialog. It's still a wip. I'm having a hard time in deciding a good contraprosto figure at the " I can't believe..." part. I lowered the axe movement except when he said "...across..." I tried lowered the axe hand on that part but didn't like the result. The movement didn't feel as strong as the higher one. I'm posting both of them for your review. What do you think? I rendered using your settings, Holmes but straight from AM. I will try Super next time.

We're getting places! The second one looks best to my eye. Does he have to raise both hands? It makes it very symmetrical. I think just his axe free hand would be enough. Watch out for his head.....it's looking a little "bobbly". I'd just rotate it from left to right to left and then dip it a tad as it transitions. Keep it simple. Also, you'll need to translate the head bone too.

Edit: Some more.....his left arm is directly in line with the camera. To make it clearer, you could put it to the side more. And I don't think the hand should come down at the top of the arc. Keep it bent in for a pause and then when the arm comes down, punch it down for impact.

I like the second one best too. But at the end ("would walk across this"), TM should just drop his right hand (the one holding the axe) down to his side.

Ok, thank you guys!

Looking good Andy!
I agree (and also prefer the second one) there doesn't seem to be a good reason for the axe handle to spin upward.
Holmes suggestion to drop the right arm down to his side is a good one.


Leave it to me to point out the obvious but... something about the staging of the axe looks odd.
Its a subtle thing but I mention it here for what its worth.

The sharp end of the axe head is pointing up which seems awkward.
Try holding an axe yourself (or imagine holding one).
Unless there is a specific reason to point upward (which TW does in a few scenes when testing its sharpness) it might be better off pointing down.

Of course if adjacent scenes have it pointing up... they'd all have to be adjusted.

Even more subtly, having the axe pointing down creates an angle that points the viewers attention up (at TW) which is where you want them to look. Having the axe edge pointing up points that subtle yet symbolic arrow off screen to the ground.

Hi, sorry for the slow update. Here's the lipsync for "I can't believe that Scarecrow could walk across this!" I lowered his axe arm and point the axe down (great observation, Rodney!) I still have to fix the head turn per Ken's suggestion and I definitely need to work on his eyes and brows and make his torso less stiff. Fantastic suggestions, guys! I'm learning alot. Let me know if you have more!

Looking much better! That last move with the axe, where TM twists his right wrist still doesn't look very natural. I think it would look much better if you removed that movement altogether. Other than that, it looks good to me.

Hey Andy, when you have ended an animating session for the day (or any time, actually) , even if you are not totally finished with the animation, please upload your current progress to svn. This will help insure we always have a backup of your latest work. Thanks

Okay, Holmes!

Hey Andy, we haven't hear from you in awhile. Would you like help finishing this scene?

Hi, sorry I was gone for a while. Holmes, I think I still want to try to finish this scene. Here's the completed "I can't believe that Scarecrow would walk across this!" I fixed the animation according to the input from you guys. Let me know if I missed some things. One thing that I'm still not satisfied with, though, it still looks like a "pose to pose" animation. I mean that you can see the key poses instead of flowing naturally as one unity. How do you fix that? I'm also sending the pencil rough for "He's much too loose and wayward!" What do you think? Is that ok?

Hi Andy, great to hear from you!
01_04_Y.mov is nice. Keep it.
In the next part ...
You are storyboarding you scene, I love it Wish I had that kind of discipline ...
I would love to see him drop the axe back to his side on "much", and animate just the left arm/hand (instead of both).

Hey Andy, love the storyboard/animatic!

This isn't a request to restructure but I want to share my thoughts regarding the first animated shot.

TW says:
"I can't believe Scarecrow would walk across this."

There is opportunity here but it lies beyond what is readily apparent in TW's speach.

Why does he believe that Scarecrow wouldn't walk across the rope?

Important aspects of this are revealed in the next shot where he says:
"He is much too loose and wayward."

Without an eye on additional lines of dialogue or activity that might contribute to the shot I offer the following:

There may be a deeper level of of concern on the part of TW's belief that SC wouldn't cross the rope. He knows his friend pretty well.
Rather than look and gesture at the rope he might look at the inherent dangers that are represented. He actually believes SW would not want to walk across the rope and he is likely internalizing these beliefs himself.

Is TW imagining SC falling off the rope?
Can he see himself falling off the cliff?
How perilous does it seem to him?

So he tries to look over the cliff:
"I can't believe Scarecrow would walk across this rope"
(While talking about the rope... he isn't seeng it. He's wondering about the fate of his friend and secondarily if in a doubtful mood... himself.)

Then he recovers himself with a little bit of levity:
"He is much too loose and wayward."
(He has convinced himself that his friend most likely did not fall off the cliff... now he can consider other possibilities)
He might look to his audience (not the audience) for confirmation and maybe even smile a little as a form of stress release. Depending on the following shots and the activity therein this smile might be very fleeting.

All this for just my thoughts on how I might dissect the scene.

Keep it up Andy!

Hey Rodney, happy belated birthday!!! Thanks for your input, I'm reading it right now. Meanwhile, here's the pencil for "axe hand down" per Holmes' suggestion. I wonder if I should bring it even lower. What do you guys think? Subtle animation is hard.

Its hard to say without knowing where the axe has been and will be.
If this were an isolated shot (which it definitely is not) I would exaggerate it and drop it farther down.

I wouldn't sweat that in isolation.
The really nice thing about computer animation is that when all the shots are strung together the axe can be adjusted to the perfect degree of 'down'.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I can see it work that way too. Well, the way I saw Tinman's initial reaction was he was a bit shocked when he saw the bridge. It was the reason that I originally animated him with broader arm gestures, like he was in a bit of panic thinking about Scarecrow crossing the bridge.



I really liked that, but the problem was his next dialog, "I doubt my own manufactured coordination for such an endeavor..." I don't think I should put a confirming smile prior to that line.
The next line after that "But, this is the only way, and whether I believe it or not - a journey begun is a journey taken..." My interpretation of this line was he's trying to calm and convince himself but he's still unsure so I planned to put a bit of worried expression instead of a smile. What do you think?

Well, I'd better get some sleep now. I'll be back at this again, tomorrow!

I'm guessing here but... a worried expression is a reasonable extension of a smile.
Whereas a smile is more spontaneous, a look of worry is more of a deliberate emotion focused on a specfic object or unfolding event than a smile. So yes... the worried expression would be more favored than the smile.

By this I mean to say that animation is all about the change. The more change the more effective.
Reverse curves... anticipation... shifts of one facial expression to another.

80% smile with 20% worry changes to...
80% worry with 20% determination changes to...
80% determination with 20% resolve... etc. etc.

My suggestion for an expression... always start with the eyes.



Sleep well Andy. See you on the other side.

Good tip, Rodney!

Oh boy, I'm stuck... I can't figure out the right acting with the axe hand down. Still practicing in front of mirror, right now.

Find something that weighs 5 or 6 pounds and hold it in your right hand while acting out the scene.
If you haven't seen this page yet, it is a good read.
http://www.11secondclub.com/helpful_hints/acting_it_out/

Thanks for the link, Holmes! Okay, after a good night sleep, I found an idea. What do you think about this one?

Looks better! But I think you are trying to do too much with it. Try using only 2 poses for the whole sentence. Then make sure all the bones in the <Bones> folder are set to Spline Interpolation and see what it looks like. Once you nail those two poses, you can tweak things after that.

I think you're right. I eliminated the first hand raise movement. Is this one better?

I think you don't need to think about the axe arm at all. It takes too much effort (for Tinman) to lift it for body language. "Humans" are lazy. What you do with the other hand is up to you, but I would keep it simple. Personally, I wouldn't use any arm movement at all. I think using his head and face expressions would be enough for this line. Maaaaybe, he might put his hand on his hip/up to his chin for a thought pose.

I agree with Ken.
But if you are attached to what you have, then use the two poses on "loose" and "way", let everything else fall where it may, then when the timing looks right and if it doesn't look too busy, you can add some breakdowns.

Yeah, I was thinking about doing the thought pose too for this line but since the animation before that has a lot of movements, I think I shouldn't "quiet" the animation right away. I'm afraid it will look jarring. I plan to gradually make Tinman calm down a bit though from his initial surprise. Okay, I'm going to animate the tooloose_test4. Thanks guys for the great advice!

Update on the "he's much too loose and wayward" dialog. No facial animation yet. When I was animating, I found out that the pencil test didn't blend quite well with the previous animation so I made Tinman drop his axe at the word "...and wayward" instead. I think it worked pretty good!

That looks pretty good Andy! Next time, will you please render the whole clip?

Animated the face! I want to try putting in ease-in/out and fine tune the lipsync and hand timing a bit. What do you think?

OK.

1. Pretty good job.
2. You are pulling too wide on your vowels in "can't" and "believe". It's kinda 'mushed' in that part of the dialogue. Hit the B in believe stronger and rather than going wide on the vowels try to open the mouth a little more.
3. This, in across this, the mouth is held shut. The mouth explodes opens at the end of the 'thi' as the sound expells air and closes on 's'
4. He is, in the next sentence, has a virtually closed mouth. "He" is an 'eeee' sound and is acented. Open the mouth.

I can't really find any fault with the rest.

Cheers

Good eyes, David! Okay, will work on those. I'm not too sure how to fix the "believe" part though, because he's saying it rather quick. I definitely will try to emphasize the "B".

Simple, hit the b well before the sound at the expense of the preceding sound if necessary. The b is often a more important shape. If it doesn't work then you can ease it a little. If you look in the mirror you will see that the mouth shape has to be formed before the sound expels with the release of air - ie mouth opening on the b sound. So add a moving hold on the b sound so that the lips mush together more between the 2 b poses.

Cheers

Ah great! Thanks for the tip!

Hey Andy, how are you coming along? Questions? Help?