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Hash, Inc. Forums > Forum Archives > A:M Forums Archive > (2009) > The Remedy
Rob_T
This might be one of the more important questions I've asked in here.

Is there any reason why I couldn't take a human shaped model with existing rigging, smartskin, CP weighting and all that jazz and delete its surface properties and decals, re model the CP's to my rotoscopes and then adjust the rig, smartskin, and other stuff to match the new size and shape of the model?

Would that be cheating? Would that be considered stealing if the model belonged to someone else?

What are the pitfalls and thing I don't know enough to ask about regarding this.

Essentially... why, when it would be (arguably... I don't know for sure as I don't have enough experience to say it for certain) so much easier to do this than model a character from scratch... why don't I just do it this way?

And don't start with me saying I'm a hack taking shortcuts. I already know that and I own it. smile.gif
Fuchur
"Would that be cheating..."
-> Depends who you ask as this is an ethical question. So I will just not answer on that wink.gif

It isnt stealing so... The models you get with your installation / extra-cd / etc. are free for use in commercial or private projects as long as it is not stated that they arent.

Cons:
- You may not know the rig as well as if you did it by yourself.
- CP-Weights, Fanbones, SmartSkins would have to be realigned which could be a major task... Especially SmartSkins are hard to edit.
- Remodeling will often kill Decalls for the patches so you would have to redecal.
- You are not learning to do it all by yourself.

Pros:
- You get a nice rig without bigger problems in it.
- You dont have to start from the beginning so you wont need that much modeling-skills.
- Depending on what you are doing it can be much faster.

*Fuchur*
Rob_T
If I were to do something like this.... can someone recommend to me a model to use. As I understand it many of the free models are older and have rigs that may have issues with current versions of A:M (please correct if I'm mistaken).

I'd like to start off with a model that has the most to it so I have the most functionality.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. wink.gif

And thanks for the opinion Fuchur.

When I say cheating I mean is it the kind of thing that people would get upset over or think poorly of me for doing? As far as ethics goes I don't really consider myself an artist so whatever the shortest distance is between me and the goal of telling my stories the way I want to; that's the "work smarter not harder" route. Ethics doesn't really come into it for me. I'm not looking to be considered a great modeler, rigger, animator or anything like that. I want to be considered a great storyteller and so I'm working from that, limited perspective.

I'm sure I would achieve great satisfaction in doing everything myself from scratch. I'm also sure I would not get done in anywhere near the amount of time I'm hoping to get done.
steve392
Theres a model in the AM exchange that you could use ,it has the 2008 rig ,I do this a lot with my own models ,but I usually deleat the rig and decals and remodel and start over .If you do that be sure to copy flip atach after you finish modeling ,before you put the rig in .I personally find the 2008 rig very good and prety easy to use ,just follow the instruction carefully
Fuchur
I assume you are talking about the KeeCat-"problem" another user has had currently... I dont think that this is a real issue... there are really only very very very few situations where that could become a problem. Dont let your self get discouraged about something like that, especially since the pose "Dynamic Pose" isnt really used in a real animation and because it doesnt have to do much with the final renderoutput but only with the realtimepreview, etc.

The thing you should wonder about is, which rig is your favorite... the Squetch-Rig or the 2008-rig are newest but although most complex rigs... they are very well designed and work very good, but it is not said that you feel comfortable with them... I would suggest you to play with different models (for example keecat has the 2001-rig) etc. and see which rig is the one you like the most. The most important rigs are the following:
- 2001-rig (used on eddy, keecat, thom and others on the cd)
- SetupMachine / Anzovin-rig (tut and examples in this thread)
- 2008-rig (example-models can be found here)
- Squetch-rig (used by two-characters / SO-characters, here is another example as far as I can tell)

Which one suits you the best? I cant say.

*Fuchur*
Rodney
There are certainly purists out there that would prefer to start from scratch every time.
In my opinion that fairly well defeats the benefits to be gained through the use/resuse of computer resources.
Its an artistic decision everyone must make but those that start from scratch every time tend to produce less in the long term. There are also those that prefer to hire the work done so they have more time to concentrate on the storytelling. Farming out work to the experts who can supply the resources necessary is one way of getting around the artistic purist norms. Another benefit to farming out work... there are some seriously talented folks who know what they are doing around here. Some would appreciate the work.

While its possible you might run into some older rigs that don't fully function in current versions this is unlikely. Hash Inc has taken the time to program A:M in such a way that assets can be brought forward into current versions with minimum rework. In most cases there will be none. Going back the other way (taking current resources back a few versions) is cause for more concern. The simple approach there is not to revert to earlier versions unless absolutely necessary. As v15 is your only version this should be an area of little concern.
robcat2075
QUOTE(Rob_T @ Jul 4 2009, 09:49 PM) *
As I understand it many of the free models are older and have rigs that may have issues with current versions of A:M (please correct if I'm mistaken).


It's not that the rigs don't work; they probably still do everything they did before. But old rigs were primitive and may not do things we are used to today. If you're posing characters for panels in a comic book, it may not be much of an issue. If you're animating, more so.

QUOTE
I'm sure I would achieve great satisfaction in doing everything myself from scratch. I'm also sure I would not get done in anywhere near the amount of time I'm hoping to get done.
You might learn quite a bit about how character meshes are made by examining a good one closely when you are reshaping it.

The ones that use smartskin on the joints are probably lesser candidates for reworking than ones that use fan bones. And how do you tell teh difference?... you don't know until you examine them closely.

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