Ok. So now that I've finished TAO I want to start work on my own project. I've got a really demanding timeline but I'm going to do my best to meet it.

This is the second draft of my script for episode 0 (in PDF form). It isn't perfect and I may make some changes along the way but I'm satisfied with it at the moment. Please do not distribute beyond this forum. I know it isn't exactly highly original material but I'd rather not have the (yes simple) story ruined for what few regular readers I have.

I've decided to start modeling the set first. I need to make a cityscape and building that look similar to the attached image. This is Remedy's neighborhood. This is where he lives and operates.

My primary concern is matching the art style and color pallette as best I can. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

I'm starting with some buildings today. Wish me luck.

if its supposed to look like the pic rendering in toon mode might help

Yes, I think toon rendering will go along way to getting that. Try making that ladder first. that would be a good starter.

This is a great style for a one man production. If you keep true to the example image, the frames should render in 2 minutes or less.
Since you are such a good artist, paint your skies and other textures as much as possible and apply them as decals.
Keep the geometry very simple. Often you can avoid adding bevels to buildings and such simply by setting the bias magnitude of any corner CPs to something like 12% or 20% (the default is 100%).

In TWO, and now in Scarecrow of Oz, our work flow is a little chaotic, so we are only loosely following the suggestions I am about to make. In the end, it really just depends on the workflow that you are comfortable with and that works in your particular circumstance. It seems to change on every project I do and with each different group of people I am working with. You will eventually discover what works best for you, so my advise is merely a bunch of suggestions that may or may not help you to maximize your efficiency and help you to complete your project in a reasonable time.

* download and install Celtx and copy your script into the program. http://celtx.com/download.html
Celtx lets you tag elements in your script as props, characters, dialog etc. Then it will generate lists for you so you know exactly, at a glance, what characters, props, effects and other scene elements you are going to need. You can also tag daytime/nightime sets. Here you can also break your script down into scene or shot numbers - very handy later when you create your file system to keep everything organized.

* create a file system. The top folder might be named the name of your story. Under that, create folders for 'images', 'materials', 'characters', 'props', 'sets' , 'project', 'foley', 'animation', 'preview renders' and 'final renders'.

* In the 'characters' folder, create a folder for each character. Do the same for 'props' and 'sets'.

*in the 'Project' folder, save your script and your spreadsheet (mentioned below).

* in the 'foley' folder, save the audio for the sound effects.

* in the 'animation' folder, create folders for each scene or shot number. This is where you save the project file and/or chor for the animation of each scene or shot.

* the 'preview renders' is where you save the quick shaded renders of each scene/shot. These can be rendered straight out as Quicktime or AVI movies. Each movie is named the same as the scene/shot number you are rendering.

* In the 'final renders' folder, create a sprerate folder for each scene/shot number. This is where you save TGA or EXR image sequences of the final renders. Each final render should be named with the shot/scene number followed by 4 0's - for example - 01_01_01_0000.tga. AM will automatically increment the numbering when it renders, so if you render the scene as 01_01_01_0000.tga, A:M will automatically name the second frame as 01_01_01_0001.tga and the third frame as 01_01_01_0002.tga and so on.

* The way you file the voice recordings will depend on how you approach the voice tracks.
The most efficient way I have seen is to record all the voices and edit them all together for each scene, so the voice track is a single audio file for each scene. However, you have to be very good at visualizing the action while you are determining the timing of the voices. You have to leave enough time between dialog for the action to happen, but not so much time that the scene becomes too drawn out and boring. If you do it this way, make a seperate folder named 'Voice Tracks' and name each audio file with the shot/scene number. (01_01_01.wav).

Another way is to keep each bit of dialog as a seperate audio file. Import all these bits into the project in AM and fiddle with the timing right in the chor. This is a little less efficient, but it gives you the opportunity to adjust the timing as you flesh out the animation. If you go this route, create an additional folder named 'audio' inside the folder for each scene/shot number in the 'Animation' folder. For example: 'Animation' > '01_01_01' > 'audio'. In this audio folder, save each bit of dialog that goes with the scene. Name each bit of dialog with the character name, followed by the first two or three words of the dialog. For example, 'Bugsy_did_you_finish.wav', 'Thug1_yeah_boss.wav', 'Bugsy_I_have_another.wav', 'Thug1_Im_on_it.wav'.

* get familiar with a spreadsheet app. I use OpenOffice Calc and it works fine for me.

* create worksheets in the spreadsheet named Design, Models, Rigging, Texturing, Voices, Animation, Effects, Lighting, Rendering, Editing

* In the worksheets Design, Models, Rigging and Texturing, create sections for 'Characters', 'Sets' and 'Props'.
Under Characters, add the name of every character in the story.
Under Sets, add the name of every set you need to build
Under Props, add the name of every prop you need to build

* In the worksheet Voices, add the name of each character in the story and who is going to do the voice acting for each character.

* In the worksheet Effects, add the name of every effect you think you are going to need and which shot or scene number it occurs in. Things like explosions, wind, animated clouds, dripping water, a striking match etc are all effects.

* In the worksheet Lighting, add the names of each of your sets

* In the worksheets Animation, Rendering and Editing add the shot or scene number of every shot or scene along with a short two or three word description of the shot/scene to help you identify them.

* Draw a character sheet for each character. In each character sheet, draw a front, side and rear view of the character in a default "T" pose. Also draw a couple of poses that characterizes the character's range of emotions. What does the character look like when it's happy, sad, angry ?

As you complete the sheet for each character, mark it as 'complete' in the 'Design' worksheet in your spreadsheet app. Every time you mark something as 'Complete' in the spreadsheet, you will get a little morale boost. These little boosts are important to keep you going.

* Turn your script into a series of comic book panels so you know what your characters' key poses will be, what the mood will be, what the camera angles will be and what elements and/or buildings they will have to interact with in each panel. Once you are done with this, you will have a good idea of what each set looks like.

* Create some drawings for each set. Include an overhead 'Floor Plan' view and one or two perspective views for each set. Also, if there are any special architectural elements or details, draw them too. This will speed up your modeling and set building when you get to that stage.

* Now that you are organized and have all your ducks in a row, do the voice recording. Record the voices very early in the production process. It is much easier to animate to the voice tracks than to try to get the voice actors to match an existing animation.

* While the voices are being recorded, start building all your characters and rig them. You don't have to texture them just yet. You should rig your characters before you texture them, because sometimes during the process of rigging you have to move CPs around or break splines and reattach them for better movement.

* as you complete the modeling of each character, mark it 'Complete' in the Modeling sheet in your spreadsheet.

* as you complete the rigging of each character, mark it as 'Complete' in the Rigging sheet in your spreadsheet.

* At this point you can start texturing, or you can wait on the texturing. It is important to do the texturing before the lighting though, because how a set or character is lit will depend to some extent on its textures.

* build all the props - as you complete each prop, mark it as 'Complete' in the spreadsheet. Most props don't need any rigging, so label them as 'Not Needed' in the Rigging worksheet.

* Build sets. Focus on the immediate area where the action takes place in the set. As set pieces recede into the background, they can be much less detailed. The far background can simply be a giant cylinder decalled with a matte painting. This will help avoid rendering problems, will speed up rendering, and will allow A:M to be much more responsive when you animate.
There are three ways you can build a set.
You can build the entire set in a model window. This works well for simple sets, but as the set gets more complex, A:M bogs down consideraly.
You can assemble the set in a Choreography window from a bunch of different models. This is my favorite way, but it has a serious drawback. If you use the same set in several different scenes, it is easy to lose continuity when you have to change the set or add elements etc. You have to open the choreography for every scene that uses the set and make the exact same changes in every one. This gets tedious really fast and it is easy to forget something.
You can assemble the set in an Action window. This is a pain in the arse, but it has a serious advantage. If you make a change to the set, every scene that uses the set is automatically updated, so you only have to change one file and everything stays nice and synchronized. If you assemble the set in an Action, create a 'base' model for the set. This can be an empty model, or it can be the main element or whatever. Name this model something like 'MySet_base.mdl'. Every action requires a base or default model to start with. All other models are added as 'action objects'. When you have many different sets, it is easy to forget which model is supposed to be the Base model. If you name the base model something like 'MySet_base.mdl', it is much easier to remember. Save the Action as something like "MySet_Assembly.act" and save it in the same folder as the set model(s). ('My Story' > 'Sets' > 'MySet' )

Only include architectural and landscape elements, and props that don't require much interaction. As a rule of thumb, do not include any items you will be animating, though there may be exceptions to this rule from time to time.

Things seem to go much more smoothly for me when all my characters are rigged and all my foreground sets and props are built for the whole story before I do any animation. Otherwise, I have to go back and forth between moddeling, rigging and animating and it is easy to lose steam.

* Do Layout. Create a project file for each scene or shot number. Some people prefer to create only Choreographies (.cho) and do not deal with project files (.prj) at all. Either way is fine. In each project, import all the characters, props, set pieces, audio tracks and set assemply actions. Assemble the set. Add the props. Place the characters roughly in their starting positions. Set the properties for the camera. Do not do lighting yet, except maybe for some very basic temporary lighting which you will delete later. Layout every scene or shot. Your animation will go much faster if all this prep work is done first.

* Animate! Go ahead and animate the whole story. After you animate each scene or shot, do a quick shaded render to test the timing and the audio.

* Once animation is done, if you have not finished texturing everything, finish the texturing.

* Now do the Lighting for each set.
I strongly recommend that you do Not put lights directly in your set. In some cases, you may discover during the rendering stage that you have to break a render into passes (foreground, middle ground, background or whatever). Sometimes you render in passes to cut down on render time. Sometimes you do it for greater control of the final "look". Sometimes you discover it would be best to create an effect seperately and composite it in Post. There are many reasons for rendering in passes but I am not an expert in all the techniques so I can't really describe them all here. Regardless, if you have to break your render up into passes, you will need the lighting to be the same for all the passes. If you deactivate your set in the chor in order to render just the characters or foreground elements (for example), your lighting goes away too, so you are screwed. If all your lighting is in its own seperate action or model, then you can keep the lighting "Active" while switching On and Off the other elements.

If you build the whole set in a Model window, create an Action named 'MySet_Lighting.act' with your set model as the base model - do all your lighting in this action and then drag the action onto the set model shortcut in the chor.

If you build the set in a choreography window, create an empty model (with nothing in it) named "MySet_Lighting_base.mdl'. Now create a new Action named 'MySet_Lighting.act' with 'MySet_Lighting_base.mdl' as the base model. Open windows for both the choreography and the lighting action and tile the windows side by side. Drag the 'MySet_Lighting_base.mdl' model into the choreography and drag the 'MySet_Lighting.act' action onto the model shortcut. Position the lights in the Action window and hit the [Space] bar on the keyboard to update the Choreography window. This is a slow and sometimes tedious process, but it will insure that your lighting is consistent in all the choreographies that use this same set. You may have to make seperate lighting actions for daytime and nighttime. It is easy to swap out the lighting actions depending on the time of day or whatever.

If you assemble the set in an Action window, make a copy of your set assembly action and name it "MySet_Lighting.act". Place all your lighting in this action. Then delete all the set pieces from the lighting action so there are only the lights (and of course the base model which you cannot delete).

Only have 1-3 shadow casting lights (unless you are using some kind of light rig to produce soft shadows). Try using Z-Buffered shadows first. If that looks unacceptable, then switch to raytraced shadows. Z-Buffer shadows render faster.
Put several colored klieg lights (non-shadow casting) in the set. Orange, blue, yellow etc. and arrange the lights so there are darker areas and lighter areas. You don't want uniform light over the whole scene.
You can often get a nice dramatic effect by using IBL.
It is often handy to bump up the "Ambience Intensity" in the Choreography properties to soften up the lighting and lighten the shadows. Values of 25% to 50% seem to produce nice results.

* Test Renders!
More often than not, I discover some issue after looking at a final render that I have to fix. You will be tempted to go straight for a full render, but don't. First render every 100th frame, then look at them and make sure everything looks OK. This will save you time and frustration.

* Final Render.
Once the test frames are acceptable, go ahead and do a full render of the choreography.

* Foley (Sound Effects)
While you are waiting for your renders, you may want to start on the foley work. Use the quick shaded movies as your reference.
The foley should be seperate from the voice track(s). Your editing program will have to be able to handle *at least* two audio tracks. On one track you will put the voices. On anoher track you will put the foley. If you have a music score, that goes on a third track.

* Fix Render Issues.
Even if the test renders look good, you will often notice problems with some if the final renders. Use a program like Irfanview to step through each frame to check for issues. When you see an issue, make careful notes of the frame number, the issue, and whether it must be fixed in the chor and rerendered OR if it can be painted out in a paint program.

*Export the audio.
If you edited together all the voices into one single audio file for each scene or shot, you can skip this step.
If you imported all the dialog bits into your projects as seperate audio files:
Open up each of the quick shaded movies you rendered. (You still have those, right?) If you have Quicktime Pro, you simply choose File > Export > Sound to Wav. If you don't have Quicktime Pro, you will have to find a program that can extract the audio from your movie and save it as an uncompressed wav file.
In many cases, the audio extracted from these shaded movies is fine, especially for a nano-budget production. Sometimes, however, the exported audio is just not acceptable. In those cases, you will have to manually sync up the original recording of each bit of dialog with the video in your editing application.

*Edit
Regardless of what you use to edit the movie together, the process goes something like:
Import you frames as image sequences.
Import your audio.
line everything up and create your dissolves and transitions etc.
then export the final movie.

Cool, Rob! Look forward to seeing your progress!

Wow, Home! That's some really great info!

Thanks everyone for the advice. I was considering the Toon Setting but I may need to tweak it a bit to offer a bit more detail than what I've seen in some of the examples. Hopefully there is a way to do that. I'll have to run some test renders once I get some models and scenery built.

HomeSlice. Wow. Just wow. That is the longest post (and perhaps one of the most useful) I've ever seen Bravo.

First, I'm not a great artist. My art makes babies cry. The guy who has been working with me on my comic is the artist. I just write. He wants off the project so that's one of the reasons I'm trying to model my characters so I can take over. I have permission to use what art I have but there won't be much more coming.

I have no idea how to add a bevel or set a bias magnitude so I'm in trouble there.

I've played with CeltX a little. If it can do all that stuff you said I'm about to play with it some more.

The file system is something I'm pretty good at. Organization happens to be one of my major strengths.

Thanks for the info about sequential images. I have 0 experience saving files that way and I'm a little concerned about importing the final renders (as image sequences) into Premier Pro. I did see a nice Tut for making an in home render farm that I hope to make use of as there are about ten computers in this house and a highly paid software engineer at my disposal (not highly paid by me of course but willing to work for free LOL). At some point I'm hoping to find a full tut on the rendering, and importation of sequential images so I better understand how to use them. The file naming process you suggest is a step in that right direction.

Audio recording and editing is the thing I have the most experience in. Using the dope sheet to create the speech patterns for the characters is new, but I doubt I'll export any audio from A:M simply because my workflow is so set in Sonar and Premier Pro. I'll use the dope sheet system to get the mouths working right. Then once I'm editing the final images I'll import all the audio into Sonar, balance and adjust each track and then bounce the whole thing down to a single RIFF Wav. Then I'll import the RIFF into Premier Pro and make any cuts of adjustments I need to make in there. I have a friend who is exceptional at doing score's too so I'm hoping she will score the final edit for me. I think she will. I just sent her a custom made guitar that I put together by hand so I'm guessing she'll feel a little obligated. LOL.

I'm not crazy about adjusting the audio in A:M because it does tend to lag a bit (at least on my machine). Once the images are static and I have them in a program like Premier Pro that isn't actually rendering the models in 3D it will be easier to adjust audio. I'm going to concentrate on getting the mouth and expressions right in A:M and leave the audio editing for programs that are better suited for that.

The big plus here is using a program that I'm already intimately familiar with as opposed to A:M which I'm still learning.

It's funny you mention spreadsheets and the structure you suggest. Although the subject matter is different what you describe is almost exactly how I managed the info and time schedule for the hundreds of labor certification cases I worked at my last job as an immigration paralegal. I used Excel though I imagine it will do the job. I tried the open source stuff once and was very frustrated by compatibility issues.

I'm working on getting my voice acting stuff worked out now. I'm about to post something about that in the "Off Topic" forum.

I'm going to have to start modeling the set and props first because I'm still waiting on turnarounds from my artist for the characters to use as rasters for modeling.

Texturing... yeah. I'm worried about that.

Your comments on preparing the set and standardizing the models and lighting is inspired. I will follow your advice as precisely as I know how. My sense of it is that the set will be pretty big for an action window. I'm leaning towards choreography so your advice will really help.

Thanks again so much for all the good advice HomeSlice. I hope I prove worthy of the effort you put into that post.

I have to admit, spelled out the way you have it, it seems like an awfully large amount of work. I'm just glad I get to keep it and reuse it when it's all said and done.

I have worked on several machinima films of my own, several more for other people and one movie that combined 3D with Machinima called "Halo: Unyielding."

http://www.halounyielding.com/

I write the script for part two (actually I wrote the script and seven rewrites for part two), starred as one of the lead characters (Captain William Davenport) and contributed tons of foley and recorded and edited other peoples lines and audio for the flick. I should emphasize that other than design and naming suggestions I had absolutely nothing to do with the CGI.

It took about a year to make this which, with what I know about A:M kind of surprises me now. They were using Maya and 3D Max and were always whining about how long the 3D part was taking despite the fact that the game creator, Bungie Studios, gave us the wireframes for several of the ships. So they basically just had to skin, texture and animate them.

It did come out pretty cool though. We got nominated for a technical award at the Mackies (annual Machinima awards.... kind of like the Oscars for people who use other people's game and computing engines to tell stories the creators never intended). We didn't win but it was pretty cool to be nominated.

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. I'll keep you all posted.

Oh, In case you are looking for Rob T in the credits I went by Quikthnkr when I was part of the Halo community. And if you like the score for Unyielding part 2 it is by the same lady I'm hoping will score my Remedy stuff. She's a doctor (Eye Surgeon), a professor, a single mom and one of the most talented people I know. And she's obviously a great musician.

In Premiere Pro just right-click in the window where all the assets are listed and choose 'Import".
Navigate to your image sequence and choose the first image.
Note the number of the last frame in the sequence.
At the bottom of the import dialog is a check box labeled "image sequence". Check that.
All your images will be imported and will show as a single icon.
Double click the icon to open the animation in the Source Editor (I think that's what it's called) and check how many frames the sequence has. It should show either one frame more ... or one frame less (can't remember which) ... than the number of frames in your image sequence. If it says there are fewer frames than that, you are missing an image in the sequence. Figure out which image number you are missing and either rerender it or copy an adjacent frame and rename it.
If you have missing images, delete the image sequence you just imported. Fix the missing frame(s) issue and re-import.

Thanks man. That will definitely help.

I've got my voice acting ads up so I'm making progress.

I also did some google maps research and found a great intersection in the Bed Sty, Crown Heights area of NYC that I think will serve as a great inspiration for my set. It has pretty much everything I'm looking for. Lots of run down buildings, cheesy looking businesses, beat up cars, fire escapes and balconies and basically looks like crap.

That's not a commentary on the neighborhoos itself. Liveing as close to the city as I have most of my life I know there as some very nice neighborhoods in NYC that look like warzones from the outside.

Anyway, I made a little screen cap of it. I tried to add some audio but once again the screen cap program I'm trying to use won't allow intelligible audio. I don't know what the problem is. I'll have to try and play with it a bit more and see if I can figure it out.

Rob,
Its too bad Jason (Krickof) doesn't want to stay on board as the artist of Remedy.
I really like his style.

Yeah I do too. And it really bothers me when potential goes awry. He's skirted around the edges of popularity for years but he seems to have major commitment issues.

When I brought him on I thought I was his second webcomic, his first one with someone else writing and I thought he would revive his first webcomic (which we are hosting) Sentimental Horde.

I found out later I was his fifth webcomic and he had someone else writing the strips in two or three of the others. He just can't seem to stick with a project very long. And it's a real shame because I know he has the talent to make a living with his art, he just lacks the focus.

But I've had issues with artists and musicians for years. I think they are all as crazy as #&%@!-house Rats. With musicians you get the lazy and the lack of interest in structure. When I was running my college band and we were auditioning for a new lead guitarist I actually had a guy say to me "dude you're trying to force us together too much man. Like you are saying that dudes the drummer and that dudes the bassist and I'm the lead guitarist. Why can't we just relax and jam and see how things go." My answer of course was "Well, that's probably because he is the drummer, he is the bassist, you are auditioning for the lead guitar spot and the practice room is costing me $40 an hour... man. So as much as I like your playing and the creative leads you are coming up with, if you can't play a song the same way twice so we can practice it you really aren't of much use to me... man."

Needless to say he didn't last long and ended up taking his masters in music theory (I ran into him a few years later) to the East Coast Music Mall so he could teach five year olds beginning guitar.

With artists, especially lately and especially Americans, they think they have this rare and special talent and the world should be handed to them on a plate for every doodle they produce... before they produce it. When I advertised for the Remedy art spot (and I think I should point out that in addition to the writing I handle every apsect of the tech side of the site as well with my brother in law, the artist literally just has to draw) I had over 30 people send me thier portfolios. Two were Americans that didn't read the ad and thought it was a paying gig and actually got indignant with me that I had wasted thier time. A bunch of the rest were amazing foriegn artist who were practically begging for a shot; but since they need to go to comic conventions I just couln't go with a foriegner. The immigration laws regarding things involving work and making money have just gotten too stupid. What I was left with was three or four guys (one of which was Jason) who for the most part were not the greatest artists. My choice was pretty clear.

Since the economy has gotten worse, I've been trying to find a replacement for Jason for the last few weeks and rather than more applications I instead have been getting angry responses from artist who are mad that I even suggest that they would do work on spec as a partner instead of a paid artist. They just don't get the sweat equity business model and only want someone to hand them a check every week. They are so shortsighted.

And poor Jason is so easily discouraged. I think when success didn't come instantly he completely lost faith in the whole project. We had one great week where we had better than 90 thousand visitors to our site because I had engineered a guest strip with a much bigger web comic. But when the numbers dropped back down below 10k he just started drifiting from the project.

/rant

I know all artist and musicians aren't like this. That's why I keep looking. The succesful ones I know, Jeph Jacques, Randy Milholland, Lar DeSouza and Danielle Corsetto. They all know it takes hard work and time to build a community. I just keep hoping I'll find someone else out there who has that same ethic. Until I do I'll forge on alone.

I'm actually paying Jason to create rotoscopes for my characters so I can model them. I like his art style enough that I want to try and stick with it as much as I can. He also wants to continue having his other comic hosted by me. So it isn't a total split, and maybe over time he'll come to his senses.

I can't blame them. The success rate of spec ventures is exceedingly slim. It's hard enough to collect on things where someone actually agreed to pay you.

Homes, is this on a wiki somewhere? If not, it should be (and where is the A:M wiki nowdays?)

Rod, Hashers, et al, if we currently don't have an "official" A:M wiki, I am more than willing to set up and host one to get it started. My current web host account has no storage or bandwidth limits, and I can get a Mediawiki site up & running almost instantly. Since it runs off of a php 5/mySQL backend, it should be reasonably portable if the Hash folks want to take over the hosting at some point.

I have to say; you really surprise me sometimes. Just when I think you will zig you zag.

I can understand the need for money. But I'm not looking for someone who needs money. I'm looking for a person who can already take care of themselves but has the time and desire to draw for a living. I've spoken to dozens of succesful web comics artists and writers; many I know by name and some who would even know me (LOL). There is one simple truth when it comes to comics. Print is dying and the internet is the future but the business model to charge for something like a comic doesn't exist. The only way it works is to give the product away for free, build a community and charge for ehancements and souvenirs. Other than Slipshine (and Josh Lesnick still does Girly which is not rated X like everything on Slipshine) I don't know of any other succesful pay for comics plan that works. And I doubt Josh Lesnick is making a mint off of Slipshine or he probably wouldn't bother with his other comics.

When I went to New York Comic Con I was shocked at the number of young, talented artists, standing in line for hours and flogging themselves silly for a chance to get turned down by Marvel, Image or DC. They drew all the time but instead of coming up with something original or trying to make it on thier own they all sit around and draw Spider Man, or Captain America. Frankly, it's sad.

Now the idea that spec ventures fail a lot is true. But I've already achieved goals in several spec ventures. I do my research. I had guest comics lined up for some of the biggest comics on the net our first month live and when I ran just one of those guest comics I had over nintey thousand distinct visitors to my site on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The webcomics community is very supportive of each other so I understand the way the finances work for the Webcomics business. If I could bring ninety thousand people to my site every three days my business would clear over eighty thousand a year and if I could get my numbers up to ninety thousand a day everyone involved with my business would never have to do anything else as long as we maintained the audience.

I sense a frustrated artist in your words RC. I appreciate that none of this may come to pass. I'm also driven and passionate enough to know that I have a far better than average chance of making it work.

I'm so confident that I've not only offered, I've challenged artists to make content. I've told many artists whose work I admired that I would host a comic and handle all the technical aspects of running thier webcomic for them and all they have to do is create one work of original content a week. That's it. One comic, one painting, one doodle, whatever a week. The only thing I ask in return is I keep all ad revenue (I use it to promote the site) and should we sell items related to the content the artist creates (only items approved by the artist of course) in our store the artist recieves one third of the net profit. That's pretty much it. I even offered to write for them if they need a writer or edit them if they don't. Free of charge.

Not a one has taken me up on it.

I've gone to the conventions and I've spoken to the artists and writers. I've watched people plunk down $80 on the spot for a color sketch from Danielle Corsetto (Girls With Slingshots), I've watched them pay Twenty or more for a black and white from Lar DeSouza (Lar is from Least I Could Do and Looking For Group [he does 2 comics] who pretty much never stops drawing through an entire convention because so many people want his sketches) and I've watched Scott Kurtz sell out of every item he brought with him (Scott is from Player vs Player and he left with 4 copies of one of his 4 books, that's all that was left, a day before the convention ended) and I've watched the two guys from Penny Arcade leave a 100 foot long line of fans waiting for thier autographs on Penny Arcade Merchandise because the line had not let up all day and they were exhausted and needed a break.

All you need is engaging content and a couple thousand loyal fans who read your stuff on a regular basis. Accomplish that and it's a license to print money.

My lord, Randy Milholland (Something Positive among many other little side projects he does) just asked his community for donations so he could quit his job and draw comics full time and in a few weeks he made enough money to not have to work for a year. From donations. He wasn't even selling any merch at the time.

I get frustrated because I try to spread this info around and artists look at me like I'm crazy. Even the big comic companies are getting in on it. Avatar has Warren Ellis writing this wonderful comic called Freak Angels and they give it away for free. Six full color pages almost every week. These guys printed the Freak Angels logo on some crappy field bag and sold out of 25 of them at $60 in about an hour ($1,500). So they upped the anti and did a Map Casefor $25 a piece and made 100 of them. Also sold out in short order ($625). So since they promised the field bag was "limited" they took the same bag, got it in a different color, printed a different logo on it and now they are selling that for $60 and I'm sure they have sold scads of them. Along with coffee mugs, t-shirts and hardcover editions of the comics (that they are giving away for free) that go for $39.99 for the signed editions, $27.99 for the variant cover and $19.99 for the standard version. For a comic, that had it been published the NORMAL way comics are published probably would have had a glossy stock cover and the inside pages would probably be recycled newspaper. And it would be sold for what? $5? And these hardcover editions are only 144 pages, shorter than your average graphic novel. But they give it away for free. You can see very page of it on line all day every day.

And people buy them buy the fistfulls.

Just an aside, Ryan Sohmer of Blind Ferret told me what his cost per unit is on his hardcover editions for Looking for Group and what he's selling them for. I won't repeat the numbers but I told him he ought to be ashamed of himself. Until he gave me his printers direct number (and his). Now I see things his way.

So many talented people end up in marketing (blech) or as someone's pet graphic artist drawing what other people want all day long. I try and console myself in knowing that the folks who give me grief about advertising for a sweat equity position are just ignorant. But the more I try to spread the word I swear the more the art community puts it's collective head down and stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the truth. None are so blind as those who will not see.

And I'm not saying Remedy (or any web comic) is a guarantee. There are none in this life. All I'm saying is, you want to draw; you want to be creative in this life; maybe make something that's yours and maybe, just maybe make a living at it? Now is the time. The revolution is upon us. What's stopping you?

/Rant

OK Rob, back to A:M
Get that spreadsheet filled out and practice your modeling chops while you wait for your character sheets to get done. I made about 20 models before I felt proficient. For rigging, you should read the installation instructions before you decide on a rig. I, of course, prefer the LiteRig and LiteFace ... I might be a little biased though.

Hey Holmes, Just discovered this thread and I only got about halfway through your work process list when I had to stop just to say, wow! What a great, thorough and well-organized enumeration of the entire process. I will be referring back to this (or maybe even printing it out) for my own projects. thanks.

OK, I see the problem! You're looking for an artist that doesn't need money. Those are exceedingly rare. Beyond hens' teeth rare. We may be more likely to find a frozen, re-animateable mammoth in a glacier somewhere. Artists and adequate money are rarely found together.

You might have a perfectly logical argument for why an artist would want to get on board your project, but... artists and logic... if logic ruled they would not have become artists.

It's really hard to work on a long project that is not your own. I worked for three years on a project not my own (TWO) and that was grindingly difficult to face each day. I'll never take on a commitment like that again.

I think your best bet is to do what you are doing, learning to do the art yourself. And you'll have complete control , too, which is always good.

I don't restrict my recruiting to my projects. As I said, I not only encouraged, I have challenged dozens of artists to create thier own content. None have taken me up on my offer.

As for artists being rare I don't find that the case at all. Swing a dead cat over your head and you will hit three people who can draw fairly well. I don't know many people, but I can think of two that I know who are excellent artist who have full time jobs and spend a great deal of thier free time drawing. They are both far too religious for Remedy but if I know two, there are sure to be many others and my experience on deviantart and foundmyself and all the other art communities I've gone to back that up. There are a ton of people who can draw who have no idea how to make money from it so they pander to existing publishers or get a job in marketing or graphic arts and end up drawing other people's stuff or commercials until they hate it and themselves. It happens all the time, I've seen it.

But the one thing I absolutely agree with is the arguement that artists are not logical. That and the fact that I don't believe in lying to get what I want are my greatest obstacles towards finding a person to work with.

It's sad too because honesty used to get you somewhere in this world.

Anyway, back to my project. Voice auditions are trickling in. I've imported my script into CeltX and am making lists.

I do have a modeling question. I know that the number of splines and control points and patches can slow the program down but is scale an issue? I figure that this stuff is all based on mathematical vectors so it shouldn't matter if a model is a foot long or a mile but I thought I would check with you guys. I've got my ground plane the way I want it and I'm about done with my roads and sidewalks.

Back to it.

EDIT: I'm going to look for myself a bit but in case I fall asleep or don't find it I want to ask the question now so I don't forget. I want to decal a road. It's a long road and there is no way I'll get a decal long enough and skinny enough to fit the bill. So what is the best way to have a decal repeat itself in a line on a surface? Basically, imagine a long straight road and then imagine a decal big enough to decal 50 feet of that road. How do you decal the other mile and a half and keep the yellow and white lines straight? Thanks for any help.

After you stamp the decal there is a property in

modelName>Decals>DecalName>IMages<decalname


that lets you set repeat on X or Y

you'd stretch the decal to cover the whole length of the road, then increase the repeat to fit in additional copies.


Alternatively, if the road is one patch wide and many patches long, you can select the patches, then RMB>Add Image>choose your decal from list


This will apply the image to each patch individually. If they land in the wrong direction you can select any or all and RMB>rotate images until they face correctly

Rob_T,

I would suggest making all of your models actual size. You aren't going to want to do math every time you bring an object into a choreography.

I would also suggest not building your exterior set as one model, but have it made up of several models that you assemble in a choreography. That way you can turn off the portions of the set that aren't needed for the shot. This will reduce render times.

Thanks Rob, Thanks Large,

Large I think I need to qualify my statement though because what I said lead you to the wrong advice.

I figured for my set I would need about four city blocks. I figure while I was at it I might as well make room to grow. So I'm making roads, 2 of them, with a 4 way intersection in the middle which matches the image reference I've placed below fairly well.

So I made my roads, to scale, about 2 miles long. And because of that length and the fact that I will be animating in an area less than two football fields in the center of the set I was wondering if the sheer size of the roads (they really don't have very many patches, maybe like 175 or so... is there a way to find out how many patches a model has?) would cause me problems later on.

And in that same area I wanted to bring up my next thought. I've been considering a large curved dome over my set a la "The Truman Show" so I can create a realistic skyline and cityscape in the distance. I know I can do many other things to make my backgrounds (and sky), but I was thinking, since the background is pretty much the same with perhaps some light movement from in the sky wouldn't it be easier to just have a model represent that element of my set rather than worry about whether or not the background looks the same from shot to shot I make a static set with all elements that can be seen on camera and just leave the background and sky where they are?

The only issue I can really think of is that the dome will be fricking HUGE. That said, like the roads it won't contain a lot of patches.

Does any of this make sense? Begin shooting holes in my idea........... now!

Oh and Large, I'm definitely into the whole modular idea for the set. I'm not a good enough modeler to try something like this all in one shot anyway. Everything will be pretty much seperate from everything else.

P.S. I've modeled my "ground" and I'm just about done with the streets, sidewalks and roads. I'll post an overhead shot once I'm done with the decaling, probably Sunday as tomorrow I'll be digging a hole for an above ground pool all day.

Right click in your model window and select "info".


Yes. Sky domes are a standard way of handling the sky and horizon. Set your skydome's surface properties to have 100% ambience and set it to not receive shadows and reflections. When you have it set up in your choreography make it unselectable and turn it's "Active" property "Off" until you are ready to render or it will get in the way while you work. Don't forget to make it active again before rendering.

Oops! Dupes.

Wow. I came up with something on my own that's standard? Crazy.

Things may be going my way. (said shortly before getting hit by a bus).

Thanks Paul.

Modeling at large distances from the 0, 0, 0 center of A:M is a problem sometimes because something to do with the precision of the floating point numbers A:M calculates with.

Are the two miles of road something that is only seen in the background? Try it, but a cheat solution might work better.


Very long, thin patches can behave oddly in A:M models.

With most things that are longer than 50 yards or so, you can usually get away with repeating elements. Model four or five section of road (with sidewalk if you want). Make each section a little different, but make sure they all fit seamlessly with one another. Now in your set building window, import instances of these variations and place them one after the other until the road is as long as you need. Also model an intersection with four very short bits of road.

Sorry I haven't updated much on this. I've been helping install an above ground pool (still not done and creeping into week 3; I always wanted to know what it would take to install one of these things.... there have been a couple times in my life where I had some extra cash and was considering buying one for my mother or something but I always knew I sould have to install it... that's why I agreed to help... now I know... put the money in a CD and wait until you have enough to pay someone else to do it... Nightmare!) and I've been going bonkers setting up the assets for the short.

Right now I have 4 artists making Rotoscopes for character models and seven (I think) voice actors recording lines for various characters. I'm pretty excited about the whole thing. It's coming together fairly well although I'll be glad once all the voice acting is done and the artist have completed thier first art assignments.

If any of you are interested in checking out the production area of my forum (I'm going to post all the A:M stuff here but posting EVERYTHING here is just too time consuming and wouldn't be fair to Hash to have them storing all these audio and image files for me) just join it and send me a PM on the forum telling me your username (on my forum) and that you are from the Hash board and I have created a membergroup called "Animator" on the forum and I will put you into that membergroup.

Once I have done that you will be able to see and interact with the hidden production board for the short.

Anyway. Back to work.

"Be Largento" ?!

As perhaps the most informed person on the subject, I cannot recommend this as a course of action... :-)

From an animation/webcomic context only. I have no designs on the other parts of your existence.

Ok, I have a real problem with a real question. Finally. LOL.

I'm working on my streets and applying decals. I used Robcat's suggestion to make a group and select an image for the group. Then I went into the group and changed the decal settings to repeat enough times to cover my two roads.

As you can see, one road renders fine. The other comes out all blurry. The roads are the same length. The image I used is the same. The settings on both images are the same.

Yet one road is blurry and the other is perfect.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: oh, the only other difference I can think of is that one is set to repeat on the X Axis and the other on the Y. That's pretty obvious from the pictures but I thought I would mention it anyway.

This leads me to think its a setting on your model.
Perhaps the Normals on one road are pointing the wrong way?

Man. You know Rodney. I've read about that lesson about ten times here on the forum on other people's projects. You would think that I'd remember to check that.

Thanks man.

That was it.

Anyone ever had a normal that absolutely won't flip? I've tried everything I can think of to select the patch and flip the normal but it won't budge.

EDIT: Well I kinda fixed the issue in that (hilariously) the same patch that has a normal that won't flip also made the decal I was applying to the group it was in turn 90 degrees from the axis/direction that all the other patches in the group were applying it. Since I was ably to select and flip just the image in that one screwy patch it is now just blurry (like my previous problem) instead of perpendicular which is a step up.

But I would still like to flip the sucker if I could. It's pretty far way on the model from the main area but I wold still like it to look right so if anyone has any ideal please let me know.

I do have another question though.

I've checked out the archives with the "materials" lab looking for links to concrete and or asphalt material tuts. Mostly it was an adventure in reading old posts from folks who aren't here very often (or at all) and clicking on dead links.

So who is a good person or good area of the forums for Materials questions?

Thanks.

There is a free A:M "DarkTree" material that makes road surfaces.

But since you're doing a toon look project, highly detailed surfaces aren't what you really need, right?

Rob_T, how are you trying to select the patch? Selecting its CPs or using the patch selection tool?

Robcat... I'm almost done with the street part. Then I'm going to go seriously sniffing around for some concrete. I'll post an image when I'm done and you tell me if you think it's appropriate for what I'm doing.

Largento,

patch.... selection..... tool....?

I've been selecting the CP's around it. I didn't even know there was a patch selection tool. Now I have to find it.

Look for it in the middle of the icons while in the modeling window.
The icon with the purplish patch is will take you into Patch Group Mode.
From there you select the patch.

As you can see from the attached there is a shortcut key combination for the tool too; Shift P.

Ain't life good.

Thanks Rodney. That was it. It's funny but that one patch has a normal pointing in the opposite direction of all the other patches in my road and it's the only one of its kind. Yet it simply will not render the decal clearly if I flip it to match the other normals. Flip it the opposite of every other patch in the road and it works perfectly. Wierd but I no longer care. it works.

So I promised Robcat a couple test renders of the road I've been working on. I added Matt's awesome gas station which has been altered a little (and will be altered a good deal more before I'm done) because just looking at a road is boring.

And that's probably roughly where the gas station is going to live anyway and it's nice to get a look at it.

The road is currently 2 square miles long in both directions. I'm seriously considering shaving that down but...

I don't have the artistic chops to draw backgrounds... but I can model them... and frankly I'd rather model a few city blocks and have a big environment to fool around in than limit my space...

I don't know what I'm going to do. I'll have to think on it some more. Can you cut CP's from one modeling window and Paste them in a new one? I guess I could just save it under another name and eliminate the extra splines and patches. Probably would be faster that way too. I'll have to think about it.

I'm also not delighted with my asphalt or concrete materials (asphalt is under the gas station... the road is all decals; and the concrete is on the sidewalk... I need to add lines or something like that great street intersection Muff put up but I don't want it to ook as nice as his... it's too nice I want mine to look inner crumbling bad neighborhood city). After several hours of playing with materials (what a resource hog they are.... my computer was sweating) I came to the realization I had no idea what the hell I was doing and was basically panning for beginners luck. They aren't the worst thing in the world but they aren't great either.

Anyway, here are the test renders. The first one was too close to the floor in the choreography so ignore the bleed through on the decals. I fixed it after that.

Anyway, off to bed.

Have you noticed in old movies that you rarely see a street stretch to infinity? They loved T-intersections because they could stop building their set after a block or so. Kubrick would do that even in modern times.

I don't have the artistic chops to draw backgrounds... but I can model them... and frankly I'd rather model a few city blocks and have a big environment to fool around in than limit my space...

You'll find out when you try.

(Spoiler: yes)

But you dont' need them. When i look at the sample image you posted, there's almost no texture on the surfaces. That artist has scattered a few rock and puddles around to break things up but mostly he's left the ground and walls pretty simple, which is smart since the character is the real object of attention.

I suppose that's true. Thanks.

Well what about the materials I'm using. Do you think I should abandon them in favor of the flat colors that Jason used or do you think they will suit the purpose once I put them through a toon render?

I'm a little concerned about the toon render as well I might add. It seems quite adjustable. Is there a tuturial on how to use this render feature somewhere or must I just play with it?

My personal taste is to stick with the simplicity of the original sample pics. They are clean and effective.

I've noticed that as the visual style gets more simple or abstract, I (and presumably others) tend to be more forgiving of the animation quality. Animation is hard and takes a LOT of practice. If you don't want to put your project on hold for a year or two while you hone your animation chops, keep the visual style as simple and/or abstract as possible.

The basic idea is this:
All you have to do is convey the *idea* of something. You don't have to illustrate an accurate representation of an actual object.
The only time a building would need, for example, a brick texture, is if the fact that the building is made of brick is important to the story.
You probably don't need "concrete" textures at all. Just use some shade of gray and be done with it.
Asphalt can just be a solid dark gray color.
Windows, for the most part, can just be opaque black or yellow rectangles.

Holmes has stated something I was thinking about posting regarding your project.
There is a tendency for everyone to go for a lot of details in the decaling and texturing (and modeling) for the sake of realism that will complicate your project tremendously.

If you use the simpler pallet of your current comic strip I think you'll find a lot of room to manuever in.

A suggestion: Save the more detailed work for special projects/promotional work/still imagery.

I guess I hadn't realized that you were intending to do animation, Rob_T... I thought you were just going to use assets for the webcomic.

There's some really good advice in this video podcast by Lucas Martell (I recommend the whole series of podcasts, but this one is the most relevant.)

It's a lesson that I kind of knew but ignored and it's cost me a tremendous amount of lost time!

In the case of animation, you want to do all of your story/storyboarding/animatic work *before* you go into production.

The temptation to just jump in and start making models is sooo strong (at least it is to me), but it's wasted effort until you have that animatic. I'm still struggling with this. I'm having the dickens of a time focusing on writing the Wannabe Pirates serial... and a big part of that is I'd much rather be playing in A:M than sitting with a pencil looking at a bunch of blank index cards.

Animation is such a long process to begin with (especially when we have to learn so much), that it really is shooting yourself in the foot to lose time modeling/texturing/rigging things that will never be seen in the final film. Why build 4 walls of a room, if the camera is only ever going to see 2 of them? Inversely, you can find yourself in trouble when you model only 2 walls of a room and then find out you need 3... or a window, etc.

And with the storyboards, more shortcuts may present themselves. You mention not having the artistic ability to paint backgrounds, but if it's a cityscape, you could model one building, duplicate it and alter it's shape and position and then render out a backdrop to use. If it's set all at night, it could just be a silhouette.

Largento,

I actually plan on both. The animation was going to be complimentary to the webcomic. Then Jason quit and I saw the animation as a door to freedom from (the reliance on) an artist. If I can get the characters right then it is a matter of posing them and adding speech bubbles for the comic.

I have a good deal of experience in filming and puppeteering already (not to say you don't, I'm not aware of your experience) so I specifically chose this script (I wrote it in about 2 hours and spent another 30 min or so editing it) because it minimizes set pieces and locales. I only really have 3 main areas of operation. A street, the rooftops above said street and an alley. 70% of the action takes place in the alley, 25% in the street and 5% on the roof. But because I'm on the roof if I'm not careful with how I model the neighborhood I will not only reveal areas I haven't modeled but I will limit myself in future shorts because to add other areas I will need to substantially alter the neighborhood.

So I'm trying to think big picture and small picture at the same time.

The artists I have working on my rotoscopes have been specifically instructed to stay with the simplistic style of the comic. So I'm confident my character models with be where I want them. Some of the preliminary sketches have me pretty happy. Right now I have 6 artists drawing for me.
More than half the voice acting assignments have been turned in. Once I get them all I'm going to make a quick and dirty audio track of the whole story. It will probably sound like an old radio show. LOL.

And you guys have really helped in reminding me to stay away from materials and stuff for the surfaces. You are absolutely right. I was making things more complicated than they need to be.

Thanks for linking the podcast. I watched the one you linked and I'll check out the others. I have shown my script to... well everyone involved in the project. Voice actors, artists and the forum moderators I have running things over at RC forum. So far I've only recieved positive feedback. A few have commented that they were really glad to be involved with the project because the writing is so good. Since the voice actors aren't getting paid and the artists are barely getting paid they really don't have a lot of motivation to BS me. I also showed it to you guys in my first post but none of you have really commented on the script. This does not surprise me and I don't necessarily take it as a bad thing. I've learned that while the A:M forum is full of friendly folks eager to offer advice you all tend to keep "opinion" pretty close to the vest.

Since I cannot draw a 2D animatic is out of the question. But I will say this. Hours and hours and oh so many hours of puppeteering and filming for machinima have left me with the ability to see and plan the shots out fairly well in my head. I'm a lot less concerned about getting the set and shots right than I am about modeling the characters, getting thier movements right, and the lighting. I'm very concerned about the lighting.

As you'll notice all three of those elements are things that are (usually) strictly dictated in machinima and therefore unchanging. My learning curve with those things will be the most difficult. I find modeling things like building and stuff fairly easy. It will be the details like the fire escapes and windows which I will spend the most time on.

Once I have the set in place I might try a 3d animatic bby just assigning the characters to paths like he did and just have them slide around to get the blocking and stuff right.

Also, Rodney, thanks. Like Holmes and everyone else is telling me I need to keep it simpler. Remember where the art is at and stay in that zone.

Actually that does bring up one more question I have about color. I have this cool little app called "Takecolor" that lets me grab color from anywhere on my monitor and gives me the numbers to create that color in other programs. I use it all the time when I want a specific color in Photoshop. But while the A:M color picker looks similar to the one in most programs there does not appear to be a place to enter those numbers so I'm having a devil of a time getting the colors the shade I want.

Anyone have any suggestions on that?

You can type in the color settings in the color dialogue box (see attachment).

The downside (for me) with most color grabbing tools is that they only grab a single color and its usually several colors in close proximity to each other that I'm after. I've found for simple projects isolating a small region of color by cropping an image down to the desired color swatch and using that as a decal works pretty well. Setting an underlying surface color can help in these instances as I almost always add a little transparency in to the decal. If a tilable swatch is desired that can be accomplished in A:M by rotating and abutting the images in a grid.

If more detail/color is needed its easy to add/layer in a new image. IMO the secret to surfacing objects is layering.

LOL. Rodney. I didn't understand about half of your suggestion. But the idea of grabbing a swatch of color from the comic and using it as a decal is a great idea. I have been trying to set surface colors close to what I need so I can add much simpler images to complete things. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that a surface color would need less render time than hundreds of instances of the same decal. I've also had some problems with decals not seaming well leaving me with obvious patterns in the field. So I'm not sure how to get by that except to try and get a uniform swatch with little variation.

As for the color taker. Yes I was aware that I could type in red, green, blue and Hue, Saturation and Luminosity. Unfortunately that isn't quite how my color taker works. I've never seen it give me more than 5 numbers. I've uploaded a little movie so you can see what I mean here:

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/Qui...erscreencap.flv

The dialogue box I'm used to in Photoshop just lets me stick in the one alphanumeric code that comes out of the color taker when it's set to HTML and gives me the color I want. The A:M color interphase lacks that part of the dialogue box. So I'm not familiar with how to use it.

Thanks for the help.

A:M's color dialog has RGB numbers.
Probably the easiest way to transfer would be to write them down on a piece of paper (or in a production log) from your color picker and type them into A:M.

Back in v11 A:M gained a more robust color dialog for a short time but the old menus returned due to programming incompatibilities with A:M's interface on both Mac/PC.

Tilable images help a lot but the secret is layering.

For instance:

You could have a tiled image on the bottom repeating across the object with a single image (untiled) on top.
The whole purpose of the top image being to break up the pattern of the underlying image while introducing additional variation across the whole image in the shot.

I thought applying decals ontop of other decals was a no no? From my airplane lesson I remember bad things happening when I tried it. If not then I totally see what you mean.

Could you apply an image to a group and then decal that same group? Is that how the trick works?

Yes you can decal over decals.

if you can't, you're doing something wrong.




all you need is RGB

I see your color thing showing three numbers. R G and B

Robcat, I'll give that a try. See if I can get it to work.

I just posted this on the A:M Exchange because the model for the station was originally Matt's and I wanted to give it back for others if they wanted a modern version. That said, it is a Remedy update so I'm going to post it here in case anyone has any thoughts about it as it pertains to my short. It took me about six hours but it's such an important part of the set I wanted to get it right.

The lighting is fubared. I'm going to be in real trouble if I don't figure out how to do lighting in A:M soon. No matter what I try none of it seems to work the way I think it will.

Anyway, here are the images.