Hi everyone.

8 months ago or so, I lost 2 nice animation projects that I was working on in Animation Master.
What happened was my computer's fault, I lost many personal documents too.

I was thinking about all the modeling and rigging work I would have to do again in order to create another animation.
I believe that one person alone can make a nice animation, provided they have the right tools.

Just by the thought of having to model and rig many characters again for a new animation(taking into consideration the time it took me to create and rig in my other animations), I decided to do something about it.

I wanted to monumentally decrease the time it takes to rig a character, meaning, every single part of a model, eyes, mouth with phonemes, extremities, etc.

So I decided to create an application that will take care of weighting and rigging, and posing, just by minimally setting up a model.

First I made some testes with code, and I got to rig eyes and lips and extremities, and I realize that it is possible.

So for the last 8 month I have been working on it, and I am very close to the beta testing.

The name of the program is "Rings", because the little setup in the models is with semi rings.
The program is actually to generate a file, there is an engine that I created appart from the program that takes care of interpreting that file and doing any setup
on a model, meaning that you do not have to know how to use the program in order to setup a model.

I did not want to tell before until I was sure and close to the beta testing.

I am also planing for automatic installation of newton systems, generations of models, car rigs with all the setups, bicycle chains rigs(includes tank belt rigs),etc.
The thing is that I made the program in a way to give the user the ability to create their own automatic rigs of whatever it may be.

I would like to know if a program like this would be of good use to anyone.

Here is the screenshot of Rings
Don't be intimidated, this is only to show how the program looks. Those collorfull things are floating graphs that can be moved around and connected with each other to form a logic. I have created graphs that represent bones, constraints, relationships, etc.
Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

YES YES YES


ummm...I mean...yes, of course, I'd be curious...

It sounds neat, although I can't tell from your description exactly what the ins and outs are.

If you can show a demonstration of this in action that would be interesting to see.


How will you be automatically weighting? How will it be different from the "Bone Falloffs" we have now?

This sounds graet ,a yes from me

I'd also be curious to know - if this analyzes any rig (previously constructed) and presents it in graph form - or does the rig have to be constructed from scratch using this utility?

At the moment I cannot show a demonstration of rigging a model, because I am actually integrating that part of the code to the processing engine, when I have it functional again then I will post a demonstration.

The main idea is to have precise control of what you are weighting, by a simple method:
I't actually hard to explain, it has to be seen.

I think this would help a lot of users who are intimidated by the riggging process..like myself...keep us posted

That is actually a good idea. Rings at the moment does not reads a rig previously constructed and presents it in a graph form. But it can be implemented in the future.

At the moment, you build a rig from scratch, but you can use different types of objects that exist in the model, like bones, poses, etc., as part of the rig.

If it "worked well" I would buy it in a heartbeat. TSM 2 I would say falls in the category of "working well" Rigging is the hardest part of AM for me so any tool that made that process go smoother would be very much appreciated.

-Ethan

Ok then, I must go back to programming other wise it will not get done.

And there is always something to improve and implement.

Wow... sounds great... I've always liked to use the Graph-Tools in Quest3d and some other Programs...
Sounds like a nice application! I'd be happy to try it out too!

*Fuchur*

That looks very promising
If I understand correctly, you can design a rig in "Rings" and apply that rig easily to your model? Keep us posted, I'd love to find out more about this!

sounds promising!

You weren't really expecting anyone to tell you to stop working on this were you?

Yes.

This sounds promising. It could be a killer add-on. The interface, functionality, and the ability to import previously created non-ring rigs will be crucial.
Good luck.

This sounds very exciting indeed!

Put me down as a yes!

As we use to say back in my programming day... burn that file and hit compile good buddy! :-)

Of course that's only .01% of the torte... the other 99.9% is that never ending thing called 'support'. :-(

One piece of advice -- in the madness of feature requests and glitches, establish a working version and freeze it so we have something to use while other things are in the works -- avoid that never ending 'release candidate' scenario with releases every other day.

Rusty

Thanks for that advice, any other advice will be appreciated.
That sounds very practical. That defines what I have been looking for, in the way I should do releases.

Yes, definitely interested in this.

Add me to the chorus of yes-es!

Wow! You must be quite the programmer...Martin is looking for people like you. Almost sounds too good to be true- but I do not share your 'vision' and 'enlightenment' (I'm kinda closed-minded.) Question: Have you used The Setup Machine 2 to rig a character?

I'm always amazed when people can create programs/utilities like this.
I personally have not got a clue.
I'm glad that others do.

This sounds interesting.

I am interested and would willing to invest in a copy.

Steve

I don't understand the "tech" aspect of this but I understand the "concept". I think it is a brilliant idea. I have been using AM for at least 10 years. In all that time rigging has kicked my arse. Rigging and I have been in an eternal battle. Rigging is the Joker to my Batman but... I always lose at the end of the movie. The main reason for this fear and loathing of rigging characters is not entirely the complexity of it but the TEDIOUS NATURE of repetition. I would say that a large portion of rigging any character is mostly repetitive steps. The same thing over and over and over and there really is no way in AM to change that. You must apply a constraint, set the target, adjust the offsets etc etc.

Lately I have been using a text editor and very complicated regex routines to automate repetitive tasks directly on the AM file format. My "Rag Doll" rig set up is still going to be VERY annoying to set up for new characters. It will involve lots of tweaking and adjusting based on the constraints and rigs and bone locations of each unique model.

I am actually thinking of doing something very similar to this, create a simple application that can read a model file and generate a choreography that has the rag doll rig set up ready to go for that character. It only needs to look at the geometry bones which is usually not that many even in complex rigs. I had planned to use a program called "Runtime Revolution" or something similar for developing this (I am NOT a programmer). A friend of mine was able to create an application for playing audio snippets for mixing and matching dialog in like... 4 hours with no programming skills at all using that application.

This program you are creating looks really cool. I don't have to understand the details of it to know that you are onto something. I know first hand that "automation" based on simple unique elements can be a HUGE GIGANTIC MEGA time saver. I look forward to seeing this develop. Anything to make rigging simpler even for a looooooong time AM user is fantastic.

In the 10 years of using AM... I have rigged from scratch... let's see... uh... 1, 2, 3.... 3 character models. 3. 3 total. 3. That is 3 fully rigged biped characters. Keep in mind that I rigged each model many many times with different rigs, 2001 rig, TSM, Mike Fitz fan bone rig. None of them worked very well so you can see why this interests me.

I HATE RIGGING!

-vern

Yes I have. I am aming for Rings to do that and more, appart from the other things.
I just have to much creative energy and it needs to find an exit, and if it is not using Animation Master it is programming.

Part of the plan is to make Rings able to create newton rigs too.

Ho! I forgot to mention;

I hate rigging too.

I will confess that I have only rigged a few characters, but with the experience of what I have rigged(eyes, mouth, extremities), I immediately saw that If I am to create a fearly good animation, by my self, in a relatively short time, meaning, different characters, and props, plus the animation. I first must overcome the riging speed barrier. After that one is overcame then I will see if I need to do something about animation(remember that I am talking about a fearly good animation of different characters and props, made by one person, in a relatively short amount of time).

Ho! and I did not mention the texturing.

I also have some Ideas about automating the creation of stamps, but unfortunately I am only one person and I have to prioritize. But I am planning on adding it in the future. First things first.

I hope you'll have enough time left to be making animations.... Since I have started with Zign Track I have almost no time to make graphics and animations, which I like doing much more than programming.

Sounds cool, Rasik! I'm curious to see what it will be able to do.

It sounds like this is a way to install any rig, right? So if I knew everything about TSM2 or Squetch I could get your scheme to install such a rig?

I guess a lot would depend on what it takes to define all those instructions. Making new scripts for TSM2 is pretty grinding, I'd hope your method is easier than that.

Yes.
I am trying to make it easy and as user friendly as possible.
I am aiming to making the logic as visual as possible. But there are always things that can't be done like that.

Sounds fantastic, I've always found rigging to be a labour intensive progress and the method here sounds ideal for spline based characters.

So...ummm...where is it? If you need help from the software deployment/support side of things let me know. I've started and managed my own software companies back in the day, and have experience in the software life cycle. Beware of scope creep!

Anyways, this sounds like, if all goes well, like the kind of killer app, I'd use in a heartbeat. So, here's to waiting with beaited breath.

I programed, managed programming and designed software systems back in the day as well. Twenty years worth from C++ to MS Project to UML and Rational Rose and design patterns (1982 - 2002).

I 'think' this well intentioned fellow had a dream but quickly discovered that he had bitten off far more then he could chew. I sincerely hope I am wrong but when I first saw his original post I just started laughing. It reminded me of 'me' thinking I'd just create character models which I'd then just dress in cloth sim clothes and away I'd go! I mean, what could be so hard?

(Please forgive me rasikrodri... again, I do hope I'm wrong)

Rusty

give it time. He was asking a question for his work just a week ago, so he's probably still on it.

I'm hooked!

Ditto- if it sounds too good to be true... HOWEVER, I remember Steve and Raf Anzovin talking about a utility they were going to release that would take all the dirty work out of rigging- I found their ideas a little lofty as well, but they showed ME!

creating something like this? in my opinion is like trying to build a device to fold your laundry. You just cant get around the different shapes and sizes without human interaction.
However, I will be very impressed if he pulls something out that rigs better then the other riggging apps.

good luck!

Mike Fitz
www.3dartz.com

Ta-Daaaa....

Click to view attachment


Warning: do not wear a tie, scarf or pony tail while using Automatic Folding Machine.

so funny! Actually I was going to post that YOU Robcat will probably go search for one after I posted my analogy.
However, the analogy is still accurate as there's a reason why humans still have to get involved in the folding process!

Do you know the expression called "to take the wind out of s.o. sails"?

Lets wait what he got there and after that we can talk about it... maybe it is very well done and just the stuff we all wanted to have?
I like the approach... and that it is promising can be seen in other apps who are using these kind of approach for stuff like material-system etc.

*Fuchur*

I dont' think his plan is wildly more impractical than TSM was.

The weighting part... that sounds tricky but not undoable.

His screen shots show he has a certain part of it working already... so just be patient.

Yes you are wrong, and I forgive you. My undertaking was hardest in the beginning but now it is going very smooth except for a few things of course(like always).
The Rings program, I can say is 95% done, and the AM plugin(Interpreter Engine) is about 75% done(for the first release), what is actually slowing me down is to have to figure out how to work with AM 13 sdk. Even though I may be that close to finish, in the way things can appear that slow me down, and it has happened already, so an exact date cannot be told. I think that the best thing to do is to finish it and announce that the first release is finished.
Also first you were supposed to load the model in Rings in order to process it, then I decided to do everything right inside AM, is best, that actually took some time away too.


At the moment Rings creates semi-rings, bones, nulls, Properties, Poses and their Relationships. All this according to the logic that the user builds inside Rings.
and of course they can be applied to any model.

I don't know what it is. BUT I WANT IT!

What are "rings"? semi or otherwise.

A semi-ring is just cp group of a non looped spline that acts as a proxy of a looped spline(ring) in a model. I just call them semi-rings because of the concept that I am developing.

I'm really excited about this project and am glad that you are still working on it. I consider me a fair modeler, but have shied away from animation because of the difficulty associated with rigging, weighting, etc. Even TSM2 never worked right for me. If this works, it's an early Christmas for many of us, I'm sure.

Can Rings be used to constrain models to each other in a choreography?