The draft for "Act 2, Sequence 2: Flight" is now online for you to preview.

http://www.holmesbryant.com/files/video/scarecrow_of_oz/

Holmes,
I'm being conservative in my praise but perhaps I shouldn't.
This is really wonderful stuff.

The lighting, animation, backgrounds, water effects all work together to complement each other.
Adding some imperfections, shadow pass, later on would really give depth throughout.

Really beautiful work!


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Possible editing opportunity:
Cap'n Bill's dialogue from 130 to 137, the part where Cap'n Bill says "..and danger doesn't mean getting hurt. It only means we might get hurt" seems to me an expendable element of the shot.

The test I use here is to consider what would be lost if that was cut. They just went through a swirling whirlpool and have escaped the cave so adventuring into the air should seem safe enough. The dialogue also flows just as well without it. From a vantage point strictly dealing only with a message related to safety/danger that suggests to me it'd be best to leave it out.

If the final editor finds he needs to cut a few frames or pick up the pace a little this may be a good place to effect the cut.

Just a thought.

Thanks Rodney. Its nice to read comments
And your observations and suggestions are perfectly appropriate at this stage. I'm editing these things together and putting them online just as fast as I can get them to render so the people who worked on them can take a look and see if they want to change anything.

Impressive indeed! Loved the ocean! And the background while he flies above the clouds
A+++

Holmes,
I'm not sure which participants to compliment & congratulate but I really like the way S.O. is shaping up. It's looking (and sounding) very good. Kudo's to everybody. (By the way, Holmes, are you going to animate "Greed"? Sorry if I'm being selfish but these clips make me anxious to see one of the songs done.)

looks really nice - love the background set when they emerge from the cave - very appropriately fantasy colorful - Are you rendering some of those scenes with background rotoscopes? (made from 3d set?).

Ocean of course looks great (lighting is off as they are above clouds - so the characters should be in bright sunlight instead of shadow). And as well when Ork exits in last scene - he's unlit.

There are Hat, Bow, collar continuity issues:

1) The dialog contradicts what happens. Trot says something about "twisting the bottom of her dress to make into a rope. In next scene, when riding above ocean, Capn Bill says something like "But in your dress". Unfortunately they are riding in a swing constructed of her bow and hat (NOT dress and hat).

So assuming that dialog is wrong? unless there are plans to change animation and take the bottom of her dress off or twist it - they should be riding in a swing made of the hat and bow (and collar should be still showing)

2) I notice that conflicting poses are used for Trot's Hat on/off, bow on/off and a Hat & bow On/Off. In the scene that I did (last part) I had used the individual poses - which left her collar showing. It appears it got changed and overridden by the Hat&scarf on/off which also hides her collar. The collar should be left showing - only the hat and bow should be hidden. The other scenes should do the same. The reason is:

3) In last scene, originally I had it so that the hat and bow (separate models) fall to the ground when they get dumped, which we still see happening. The hat shows on the ground (currently) and the bow should as well (unfortunately it looks like bow probably is underground). I animated it such that she picks up her hat from under them when she stands up. I had switched to using the hat model on her (and made separate model inactive) and used the hat on pose so that Trot's hat shows in her hand (& animated the hat bone in Trot model). The bow is and should be still off. Unfortunately looks like the hat bone keys got deleted? & the hat&bow on/off pose stops the hat from showing in her hand as well.

That's funny. When I hear that, I think it's a nice lesson for kids not to be too cautious in this cotton wool world.
More good work. It's shaping up nicely. I must get going on my shot again. Sigh....I wish I had more time to devote to it.



Nancy, I don't take that to mean literally Trots dress. I don't think we ever intended her to go naked! More it's Captain Bills general way of saying "outfit" (or part of it).

It's Trot saying "take the BOTTOM of my dress and twist it into a rope" that is more problematic of the 2 quotes.

And I agree - I like the Capn Bill dialog about danger - thought it was all very cute.

Forgot to say also - Love the lighting when they emerge from cave & Trots eyelashes look like they could use a recombing. (Don't remember them being that way).

That would have been an excellent idea with these shots, and it probably would have saved some time and work in the long run, but no.


That's a good observation. If you want to make the lighting look better, I'll be happy to re-render those two scenes (2_02_03 - 2_02_04).


If you redo the lighting in 2_02_03 and 2_02_04, please fix this as well.



Somehow, the Apple Tree Hill set made its way into your chor instead of the Farmland Path/Cornfield set, so I swapped out sets. But then part of the ribbon was passing through a rock and another part was sticking up in the air after it dropped because there was now a stream in that place instead of what must have been a hill or something, so as soon as the ribbon dropped to the ground, I turned it off. The constraints between Trot's hand and the hat might have gotten broken somehow - I don't know how - I don't remember Trot picking up the hat when I opened up the chor to check for issues before I id test renders. When the camera pulled back, after they stood up, she or Bill (can't remember which) was standing in the hat, which was still on the ground, so I just turned the hat off so it wouldn't show.


Well, the vote on this is now 2-1 in favor of keeping it.

Myron ... I don't know yet.

As for the movie, "Greed" is in the second half of the movie and we need a few animators and maybe a set builder or two to build the Jinxland Throne Room and Jinxland Village before we will be able to tackle the second half. So the answer to your question is ... Pray

I may animate King Krewl to that song ( independent of SO ) because its such a nice song. But Krewl's rig has some problems that would probably have to be fixed before anything too ambitious could be done with him. In any case, I would have to wait until the first half of the movie is done since that is taking up all my free time right now.

Uh yeah - somehow hat/hand constraints got deleted - last chor I uploaded - should have looked like:

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=a...st&id=41328

Trot's picking up hat, scarf/bow is partially being stepped on by Bill, on purpose - I believe Apple tree hill is the set that originally came with the chor. I didn't set up chor.

As for fixing (lighting, hat, etc) - I have to wonder, for what purpose?

Your quote from 2_03_02 thread:



What's happening in 1.5 months? Is that the cutoff? 15 more scenes to animate in first half? or 15 more to render in first half?

Critiquing and noticing what didn't work or got broke is valuable in order to hone observation skills & to learn for the next time - but to fix for this time? Where is this all going?

If the "path is the goal" for SO, rather than a "final product is the goal" - then I'd wonder - Why futz? Unless one wants to learn some more by doing and re-doing. Or unless there is commitment for a final product. There was more to potentially "fix" in all the previous sequences - but I held back observations.

So now that looks like a good idea - "Keep quiet - unless one wants to fix it".

I will take a look at the chors (2-02-03, 04,05) and if easy to fix or re-fix, then I will, else I'll probably leave as is.

uh...I also wonder should/can a misfit ever be re-film-ized? Or is the big red "A" too prominently, permanently tatooed on my forehead? I'll let you guess what the "A" stands for. Two syllables.

You're right. I just looked at the last chor you uploaded to svn so I could make sure I'm not going crazy ... and it appears I'm going crazy. Trot is picking up her hat. I probably f***d something up in the middle of doing everything else. I'm doing my best. There's just a lot of stuff to do.


I don't understand the question.



There are 15 more scenes to animate.
There are about 23 more scenes to render.
There are three or four sets to finish (Bumpy Man exterior- most of that is done now. Bumpy Man Interior - working on this one now. The Balloon Bazaar set needs textures, plants/grass etc. I haven't looked at the ship they all board at the end, but I suspect it needs textures.
There are four sets I think that need lighting (in addition to any ones where the lighting needs to be fixed). The Balloon Bazaar, Bumpy Man Exterior, Bumpy Man Interior and the Ship.
2_07_01 needs to be fixed. Somehow the apples Trot picks up got moved about 800cm. I animated this one so how the apples got moved is a mystery to me ... but there is a lot of weird stuff that seems to happen between the time the animator renders a shaded movie and when test renders come out. Much of it is probably me, but I swear not all of it is me.

There are 4 more scenes and another set if you count the ones with Pessim, but if someone else doesn't finish the those, they aren't going to get done. I started trying to finish up one or two of the Pessim scenes, but I just ... can't. Someone else will have to.

I've gotten 19 scenes rendered/re-rendered/re-re-rendered/re-re-re-rendered since April 1. I am constantly thanking the Mother of Creation that we have have a render farm.

1.5 more months is my estimated Time of Burnout. If the first half doesn't get done by then, it may not get done at all. Final renders might take a little longer, but I'm busting my butt to catch the rendering up with the animation so it all gets wrapped up around the same time. That way, if no one else volunteers to build sets, finish rigging and animate on the second half, at least we have something to show for our efforts. Martin suggested the first half of the movie as a good milestone, so that's what I'm shooting for. The last scene will be 2_08_05 I think.

Nancy, your "A" tattoo isn't any bigger than mine. You can be re-film-ized any time you want, as long as you can tolerate working with me.

Thanks for the extended answer. Sounds like a daunting task, with all that's still needed to be done in 1 1/2 months. As evidenced by the progress, it seems you've been working at quite an impressive pace, and accomplishing a monumental feat almost single handedly, at this time. I hate to see you burn out. I wish that you could pace yourself so that you enjoy the process. And the other part of protecting oneself from burning out tooo much is noticing what expectations one might be having as to what it means to be "done".

Regardless of expectations, I've always noticed there is a let down for me when working hard, for so long and then poof - all of a sudden - it's done! Doesn't matter if it's sucessfully done or not. And then sadly, one (me) is reminded that the destination wasn't the prize. It was the trip.



It was a philosophical gobble-de-gook question that I was trying to work out for myself.

And actually, you've provided enough information and detail as to what the "purpose" of fixing/futzing versus not fixing/futzing would be for me.

With or without a firm commitment to finish the whole enchilada, or even half (by others or myself) - the ride is the same: Stay present in the moment, learn what one can as the opportunity presents itself, and it's all good. Look to the future with expectations, and one's guaranteed to miss the sights along the way. And it is inevitable that one will have to catch another bus, at some point.

Uh - huh. Sure. Right. She said, pretending to be philosophically detached.

Isn't that the truth.

That was a beautiful and thoughtful exposition Nancy. The truth is, I really am enjoying this. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be doing it. That's probably why I've been in the precarious world of freelancing and volunteering for so long. The last time I had a real job was 1999 I think, and I really liked that job, I was the darkroom manager for a custom photo lab, but alas it went out of business. The only time it gets iffy is when someone involved gets out of sorts. Those situations can be challenging.

I also know myself. If I don't set a deadline for myself, I get distracted by other shiny things, so the first thing I was working on gets put aside and often never gets finished. I like finishing things. For me, burnout is OK if it coincides with the deadline. Then I get a little vacation to recharge before the next shiny thing grabs my attention and I pour all my energy into that new thing.

My memory says this was New Mexico (perhaps around Albuquerque?)
I stalked your webpage many years ago.



A lot of wisdom flowing there.
There's nothing like a good deadline.

There is an old saying (I don't recall the exact quote) that "a project will expand to fill the allotted time".
Over the years I've found this to be a supreme validator for the need to keep deadlines short.
If given six months to do a job most of us will start getting around to it around the five month mark.

I think instead, I will re-pickup 2_06_01 (Bumpy man sequence) and finish animating it. Ok? I ain't anywhere near as fast as you - but I'll give it a shot. I also like to finish things.

If/when there is ever a cleanup phase, then perhaps the bow/hat/collar issue can be addressed then.

Why do we have to finish this on a schedule? why not just let it run it's own course? So we race to finish the first half then stop working on it? I agree with Nancy lets enjoy doing this right instead of of finishing 1/2 then quiting? I will still work on my scene regardless of what happens if you want to quite in a 1.5 months then let someone else take over instead or no one. I really do not see the point of this it appears to me that alot of us are bussy right now lets slow things down and do it right and enjoy it. We do not have anyone wanting to pay for this or TWO so what difference does it make when it's done? What I have in mind is working at my own pace and when I am able to make my scene the best I am capable of doing. I do not want to bang something out I do not feel good about or proud of. If this does not fit with what the group wants to do then I guess I just work on this scene I am on with the knowledge that it will not be in the movie at all then. Maybe working on my own projects would have been better but I like working with people and learning if I am not improving then I do not get any satisfaction from this.

I would be happy to do that. Any volunteers?

Mark, you can work on your scene as long as you want for your own personal pleasure. I know you were concerned about other people finishing or modifying your work, so I'm giving you the courtesy and respect of forewarning. 9.5 months (almost a year) is plenty of time for that scene. Whatever isn't finished when all the unassigned scenes are completed will be finished and rendered by someone. I'm assuming that someone will be me.

You got it.

Holmes,
I really want to get in on this.

I'm wondering if this isn't the perfect time to start cueing up into the second half of the movie.
If nothing else then perhaps to begin breaking things down and targeting resources now.

If we start moving slowly now the ball could really be rolling by the time we get to the end of the first half.

Regarding finding someone to take over for you for the second half... are you friggin' kidding!!! With the quality of work you are producing on the first half... YOU'RE STUCK!

Well Rodney, you are welcome to give it a shot. First you should look at the preproduction status pdf file and note which models and sets still need to be modeled, rigged and textured. Then you need to find someone who will do all that. You will need to personally check these models as they are completed to make sure they are in a usable state. This is an important step and will save you some grief later, when the animators begin their work. Next you need to find 3 or 4 animators who are capable of animating a 1-2 minute scene in 2-3 weeks. With those animators as a base, you can then recruit other animators who work at a more leisurely pace. You probably don't need to worry about lighting or effects until later. When you have those resources in place, I can point you to the OpenOffice spreadsheet I use to track all the progress.

I feel I'm up the initial challenge of inventorying resources and making initial status assessments and running resource tests. I know recruitment and retention is always going to be a challenge. I might need to access a progess tracker (not necessarily your original) earlier in the game to keep up with the checks/changes.

I'll start surveying the production charts.

So I have tell end of the movie? "All unassigned scenes are completed" or the first 1/2 1.5 months?

The first half of the movie. Through 2_08_05.

I am dissapointed that with this being joint volunter project that these decisions are made without input from the group? But regardless I think I need to concentrate my energy in my quest to change my carrer. I have multiable tasks in front of me and I was hoping to fit this one scene into it and have it done in time with the completion of the entire movie. But if this can not been done then I really think I should put my Animation hobby aside tell I have time for it. It's been alot of fun my friends and I learned alot I like to espeiacialy thank Robert for the many hours he has helped me with both TWO and SO.

I think I might try another hobby out once I graduate I been meaning to retry electric guitar or piano as my next hobby. might check in once and a while but I think I try to stay away if I can

Good luck all with SO and have fun! Bye

Mark,
I don't work for Hash and I don't think any less of you because you have other priorities. There are lots of other people in similar situations.
Pour yourself into your work. Enjoy other hobbies. But don't feel like you've lost face here, because you haven't.