I am not sure if the makers of Animation Master live in the real world. For some of us getting a credit card is out of the question as banks are just not giving them out in UK. I have never had the need of a credit card and the 1st time I got one in 1999 for the purchase of Animation master 99. Then in 2004 I tore up my credit card because the bank was not happy with me paying of a large debit in 2 weeks. A year later I wanted to update my Animation Master I went back to the bank and applied for a credit card. They refused because of my previous good behaviour . I can't be the only one that can't update to the latest version because a bunch of silly bankers got to greedy and handed out credit to people that would take forever to pay back. Anyone know why Hash find it so hard to have the option to purchase AM using a Pay Pal Account?
Alternatively is there a way of purchasing a used version of AM with the license number. I am stuck on version 12+w and I would love to move on to the Zign Track lip sync program and all the other goodies that come with the new AM.
Please remember there are many people out there that like to animate and make helpful tutorials but can not get credit cards because things have changes big time. There are other ways of buying AM but they cost too much and are risk.

you can send us a money order... people do that often.

Have you e-mailed them and inquired about other arrangements?

If PayPal is a no-go I imagine a bank check sent by mail might be an option. Not fast, but an option.

Is a bank check sent by mail any good. I did ask my bank 2 years ago about a money order to buy AM and they put me off the idea saying it would cost more than the product. There must be thousands of people out there that want to buy AM but all the banks are really tough on give credit. And they do not like people like me because I hardly used the card and I used to pay them back to quick. I guess with in a years time you will have come round to my way of thinking cause nobody will be using credit cards by then

You come off as a 'glass half empty' sort... a money order costs a buck or two... PayPal is fast, cheap and easy, quit concentrating on the PROBLEMS and try a SOLUTION.

oh---and WELCOME to our little forum. No one will be using Credit cards in one year? I haven't had a CC in years, but do have a debit card.

There are a lot of sellers on the web and elsewhere that don't offer "paypal" for payment. Paypal is not "universal". Doesn't paypal require a checking account? What about a check card? Do you have a checking account? A bank account? Where do you keep your money? In a mattress? Most banks offer check/atm cards as part of a checking account. If this is the ONLY thing you use it for then you aren't at risk using it if that is your worry.

You could also give cash to someone you know WITH a credit card and have them order it for you. Lot's of unneccessary "whining" and finger pointing over one of the most common forms of payment on the planet.

-vern

I had no idea banking was such a mess in the UK. You get bad "credit" for paying debt off too efficiently? What the heck is that?! And your banks don't offer debit or check cards? Looks like a credit card, works like a credit card, but essentially replaces checks?

If there is any truth to this, I'm super glad I live in the USA.

p.s. I bought my first copy of A:M back in 1996 with a money order. Version 4.

Would you mean 1996? In 2006 we were way up to V13 or 14. If you bought V4, I'd like to know who sold it to you.

The Zign Track is a standalone software/plugin sold separately

According to Wikipedia they do have debit cards in the UK. Long run... try some other banks.

Short run, look into a money order to purchase A:M.

Debit cards? Do as many places accept them? I just stick the correct amount of money into my credit card when I know I'm making a purchase. No debt required. Though maybe the charges are greater for credit cards? Here we pay a 40 Euro charge just for owning a credit card. Got me thinking now.

Here in the US a VISA or Mastercard debit card is taken anywhere the same credit cards are accepted. Those are 99% of debit cards here.

In the US creditcards are much more common than for example in Germany... (I assume quite everybody got one in the US... in germany one creditcard comes on at least 6 people... maybe even less creditcards are available).
EC-cards are much more common here.

I asked for PayPal-Payment too a few month back... I had a talk to someone at hash (dont remember who it was) and it was like this:
Till then, Paypal wasnt asked very much. They offered it and they got maybe 2 buys a year from it, so they didnt offer it anymore.

I dont like that too... I dont own a creditcard and have to ask my daddy-dad for it... (which is a bit annoying for a 24-years old)...
I think if the demend rises, Hash will offer another paymethode (for example paypal) but till than you will have to do it like I am...
Ask someone with a creditcard to help you out...

*Fuchur*

Your 1st reply was rude and unhelpfully. You will lead a more fuller and for-filling life if you stick to the things you know rather than try to be smart by trying to answer everything. None of the other people replying felt they had to be rude and weird.

Thanks. I have only tried the demo and it did not produce the BVH file. Will the later versions still work on AM v12?

You won't get "bad credit" but banks absolutely HATE IT when you don't keep a balance on your card. They don't make any money. They make their money on charging those huge percentage fees on the balance. I have many friends and family here in the US that have had yearly fees tacked on to their cards or had their cards canceled for no reason other than that they maintained a zero balance at all times. They never carried anything over to the next month. Eventually the CC company slaps on a yearly fee or some "maintenance" charge. At that point they would just switch to a different company that had no fee... until the same thing happened again.

There is some talk in congress to investigate some of the practices of cc companies like hidden and odd service charges on credit cards and excessive late charges on payments (late payments like... 3 hours late... or the bank gets it on time but processes it "late").

So remember: Banks want you to charge charge charge... and NOT pay it all off each month.

-vern

LOL yes I don't know what I was thinking - yes 1996 NOT 2006. I edited my post with the correction.

Yeah, banks would like you to pay minimum only each month. I first learned about credit cards from my parents, who NEVER carry a balance - oddly, though, the companies just keep raising their limits; the one time they charged them a late fee on a technicality, my mother called and pointed out their impeccable payment history, and the fee was immediately refunded.

The bank still wins, however, even with the lost revenue from interest they cannot charge, they still collect a fee from every retailer that runs a transaction on the card.

That is the same reason banks invariably offer check cards - they profit from fees charged for the retailers to process transactions.

I'm surprised your family has had such negative experiences.

It could be the storied I heard were about one bank. Here in Wilmington Delaware, we are the HOME of banks. For a while MBNA had buildings all over the place. Then it was... some other bank. MBNA had a HORRIBLE reputation for adding yearly fees if their balance was consistently paid off each month.

-vern

Of course we have debit cards in the UK. I don't have a credit card, haven't for years but I use my Visa debit to purchase everything, including A:M. Almost everyone who has a bank/cheque account automatically gets a debit card.

Loads of places don't offer Paypal. In fact more don't than do. Blimey, come on Yardie stop making things seem more difficult than they really are and purchase A:M if you want it.

Thanks for being helpful M8. I have now found "cashplus" credit card. This card is easy to sign up to and I can buy stuff on credit and make one of payment. So if anyone else is in my postion and wants help I can supply the link. I have not tried it out yet because I am still a bit confused about upgrading AM. I see they have Animation Master subscription @ $79.00 and AM upgrade. which should I choose. I find the choice confusing

There is no update...
You can buy the subscription(79 Dollar) or your can buy the CD-version (299 Dollar).
Subscription only works for 1 year (after buying) and is dongled to a specific PC/MAC. After one year you can buy a new one. (logically: You dont have to have a CD in the drive with this option, because you dont need one at all)
CD-version is gonna work forever and is not dongled to a PC/mac.

*Fuchur*

I meant upgrade. Will that is a bummer. Nobody really wants to pay for software that only works for a year. But I guess I can still continue to update my AM v12

Prepaid credit card?

Keep in mind they charge a monthly "subscription" fee. This is a pretty hefty fee compared to having money in a savings account and using a debit card. You have to keep money in the account or eventually it gets used up paying that monthly fee. It wouldn't be my first choice... but it's your money.

-vern

Just to make sure we are talking about the same things:
Update / Patch = free softwarepatch to get rid of bugs...
Upgrade = versionnumberchange (for example v14 -> v15). You will have to pay for that.



I meant upgrade too.
I bought the websubscription... so I am willing to do that... and there are many other costumers who think this is not bad at all... (and it is nothing unique... other 3d-software-companies have such things too).
The good thing about it: You can stay up-to-date for only a few dollars. (usually a bit less expensive than upgrades, etc.)

You cant update/upgrade your v12-version. There is no upgrade available any more (for any version) and you cant update v12 anymore, because there is no new version available for v12.
(v15 has had some updates -> v15(a - e).

You can however buy the full cd-version again (299 Dollars) or you can buy the Websubscription (79 Dollars)...
Your choice.

*Fuchur*

Your v12 cd will continue to work but you won't have the latest updates. They only lasted for a year.....to v13. Any further updates mean you'll be on the new system. Which means either the download (updated every year) or the cd (more expensive but won't time out after a year).

AM is sold via a subscription based model and that's the main reason it's the most inexpensive 3D software around.

are you talking about the "cashplus credit card" or just talking about credit cards in general. Looks like I am going to pass on the subscription. I guess the card will have to go too. I just spent the best part of this year in a relationship with a Turkish woman and I have hardly touched AM. I do not fancy the idea of subscribing and not using AM for months only to find when I want to use is again it don't work. I have spent enough money over the last 7 years buying AM and the upgrades. many of the upgrade have been disappointing and I have not made anything with AM that can make me money. With my CD versions of AM I can choose when to us them and not feel tired down with the subscription, " use it before you lose it"

Now there is a quote for the competition (Turkish women that is).

Well... sorry you are dissapointed.

it all sounds a bit like excuses though. First it was the lack of a credit card and Hash not using paypal, now it is the subscription timing out after a year. I have no idea what your relationship with a "Turkish woman" has to do with finding time to animate though. Many successful animators have "relationships", heck some are even married with children . You would not use AM once in an entire year? Good god man! Do you ever leave the house?

I can't quite figure out exactly what the problem is. Do you want AM? Or do you want to complain about not being able to get it? It's all very confusing.

It seems you are frustrated over the new web subscription option from Hash, yes at first this seems to be... annoying. In one year it won't work. At first I thought the same thing. I thought "Good grief! I haven't used AM in ages! When did I buy it? Oh... I still have six months left...". The key to that is don't buy it and then worry about something that is a year away. You use it for that year when you can. If after a year it isn't worth it any more than don't update it. Or get the CD that doesn't expire.

You are frustrated because for whatever reason you don't have a credit or debit card to purchase AM and are unwilling to use a money order. That isn't Hash's fault or responsibility. If you had a new car with a monthly payment and you couldn't pay... do you get to keep the car anyway? If you stop paying your mortgage or your rent they kick you out. Life is full of challenges. Hash's challenge is to provide affordable software to cash strapped artists and still keep the business running. $80 A YEAR. I spend more than that on coffee. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I know I will be wondering when my AM expires will I have the 80 bucks for a new one. I still have some time to plan for that.

Done ranting.

-vern

There is no convincing those who are already convinced.

To expect to be successful and spend less than $500 a year toward the software you want to be successful with is simply ridiculous. To pay $79 a year toward that goal makes very good sense.

There are many reasons people aren't successful.
I won't speculate on this one except to say isolating oneself from the software you want to be successful with is fatalistic at best. Yes this means keeping your subscription current. Don't expect to be successful in the business world with A:M if you don't.

This'll sound mean (apologies here as it isn't meant that way!)
If you haven't made $79 each year off of A:M you aren't in business... you are a hobbyist.

Just be thankful you didn't opt for any other 3D software where you would have spent more in the first payment. Anyway, I thought you had v12 and so haven't updated in four years.

Must have been quite a moral dilemma... Turkish woman, or Hash... Turkish, or Hash...Turkish/Hash...TurkishHash... Just don't mumble that while going thru customs!

Glad to see you got it together, Yardie. Sorry I got under your skin earlier. Hope to see you around the forum.

You over do the ranting. One minute you are questioning my motives and judgment the next you are seeing things form my point of view. Seem pointless you replying if you can't see the point I am making then the minute you see my point. The world is in a big mess because of the credit crunch. And you know paying $79.00 for software that you might never get to use fully is indeed a waste of money if you only use it 20% of the time. You answers are too long winded and you jumb from one topic to the next confusing yourself and other people. Please think carefully before you try and answer. I might not have a job within the next 2 months. But I still think if you buy a product it should be yours for life. You complain as if you have somthing to gain by me buying a subscription. Do you really think I need you talking to me like you are my mother when you know so littel about me and then you go mental on me because I get a woman from Turkey interested in me. I am not a troll that spends there life on blogs trying to run the world.
Nuff said End of Topic

The relationship did not last. I never wanted to have a relationship with a Muslim woman but it happened. Now it's over I feel happier. One thing I know for sure is my work days are numbered and that means I might loose my Internet to save money. Once I am unable to log on I am afraid any software that needs the net might not work. That is why I am not sure about get the subscription version

The AM subscription only needs the internet the first time you use it. After that of course, it'll be needed in exactly one year.

Yardie,

You are right. I apologize for not empathizing with you more. Sorry for being insensitive and possibly misinterpreting your words. Please accept my heartfelt apology.

However, try to see it from the other side of the conversation. How long have you been "on the internet"? On forums like this? I've seen this so many times. Some people often give too much irrelevant personal information when trying to justify a point. On edge, defensive. They start out with a chip on their shoulders and use other issues to vent. Your overall attitude has been a tad... negative in this topic right from the start. You have a chip on your shoulder for some reason. Quite honestly I don't care and I'm sure Hash doesn't care (from a business aspect) about your failed relationship with a Muslim woman. I still am not clear how it relates to the pricing structure and subscription plan of AM. Should they give extensions to the subscription for "Family Leave"? If you have two or more children should it be 18 months instead of 12? If you just got married do you get an extra six months?

If you feel justified in attacking a pretty darn fantastically affordable and fair pricing plan for a fantastic application I have the same justification as a rabid fan boy to point out the irrelevant reasons you use. I've heard a lot of them but... dating? Dating as a reason to not like the Hash subscription plan for AM use? That's... a new one.

You rejected ALL of the helpful solutions.

It reminds me of people who suddenly spill their guts about some horrible personal tragedy or car accident to explain why they stopped working on some project. Maybe it's true maybe it isn't. Most times there is no way to "check". In any case it's... weird.... and awkward. I always cringe a little when reading that stuff. When I totally and completely dropped the ball with Martin early on the TWO project eventually I told him I just got bored and lazy with the whole thing, procrastinated and then ignored the emails because I was ashamed at my behavior. I could have said I had a terrible breakup with a Mennonite lesbian or a Wiccan... which might be true. I really don't know what she put in that "tea".

------

p.s.
I will be the first to admit that... uh... on occasion I too will give out "too much information" about my personal life... but it's in a funny aside as a joke. If it isn't "funny" or I use it to make it a point... most likely it would be in the OT section. For example: I've never dated a Muslim woman... but try dating a MENNONITE LESBIAN or a Wiccan! See. That's kind of funny... and also true... and a bit sad.

-vern

OK Vern. Who's the girl? (A totally irrelevant emoticon, but I thought it fit the sentiment perfectly. )

QUOTE

I am not sure if the makers of Animation Master live in the real world. For some of us getting a credit card is out of the question as banks are just not giving them out in UK. I have never had the need of a credit card and the 1st time I got one in 1999 for the purchase of Animation master 99. Then in 2004 I tore up my credit card because the bank was not happy with me paying of a large debit in 2 weeks. A year later I wanted to update my Animation Master I went back to the bank and applied for a credit card. They refused because of my previous good behaviour . I can't be the only one that can't update to the latest version because a bunch of silly bankers got to greedy and handed out credit to people that would take forever to pay back. Anyone know why Hash find it so hard to have the option to purchase AM using a Pay Pal Account?
Alternatively is there a way of purchasing a used version of AM with the license number. I am stuck on version 12+w and I would love to move on to the Zign Track lip sync program and all the other goodies that come with the new AM.
Please remember there are many people out there that like to animate and make helpful tutorials but can not get credit cards because things have changes big time. There are other ways of buying AM but they cost too much and are risk.

The original post for reference.

Yardie,
I'd like to buy the world a Coke and a subscription to A:M but its not Hash Inc that isn't livng in the real world here. If you can't get past this one you need to seek other solutions. As my wife says... time is money... and you could have purchased A:M several times since you first posted if you would have set your mind to it.

If you send $85 to me via Paypal ($79 plus processing fee) I'll purchase the activation code and email it to you.

I wouldn't worry too much about the future of the internet.
In ten years access to the internet will be free in most parts of the world.

To be fair to myself I am almost certain she was a lesbian BEFORE I asked her out. And... it was long before the TWO project anyway so not a very good excuse, but how would anyone know? I guess my point is how do you respond to a story like that? How can you argue with it? If it looks like an excuse, and quacks like an excuse... best to just be honest. If Yardie wanted to vent about credit cards, subscription plans, his love life, the economy, then there would be no question where his head is at. By asking for help when there was obviously other issues it gets annoying. We are ALL effected by the economy... excuse me... I have to get my ketchup packet soup out of the microwave...

p.s. I'm still desperately trying to find my muse. If you guys and gals could ask your own muses if they've seen mine or... what she looks like... I would appreciate it. Life stinks without a muse. I would even settle for a mediocre muse. One who no one else wants... as long as she doesn't go on and on about her personal life and medical problems I'm good to go.

-vern

Are you done with Sarah the Moose Plumber ALREADY ???? Maybe you need to volunteer as her campaign manager ? She might have a sister. I understand her daughter's already ..er...ummm...hooked up.

Buy her some clothes at Amazon, they're on sale! Mousse Plumber Clothes for your Moose Muse

I think they take paypal.

For me Sarah is less a "muse" and more of a diversion. An "anti-muse"... or what I like to call a "muuse" (pronounced like... puce).

-vern

The PERFECT girl for ya, Vern!

Oh lord. Back to the therapist.



-vern

Thanks for the offer. I think I have told the forum I signed up to an on-line credit company called cashplus. I have only just joined and I am still not sure I want to go ahead as I tried to pay for the subscription and the card was not excepted.
To be honest with you had the impression the Zign Track mentioned on the shop page is meant specially for Animation Master. I tried to buy that from the AM shop and the card was rejected to. If I can get the Zign Track by other means I will not need a credit card. To be honest I think I can get more out of my AM v12 than what ever new version is made. The extra features you keep adding have now resulted in a 1 year subscription.( not a nice why to pay back loyal customers that have helped develop the software.)
BTW any chance you could change that annoying avatar of yours please. you know the one I mean. the one poking it's tough @ everyone

I am trying Other software and it is not as troublesome as AM. But it taking longer to learn

Oh. So you can pay for software? I think you were right all along Vern.

This person just wants to complain and not accomplish anything.
The program is great and easy to use. and easy to buy.
this topic should be locked.

I see prices falling because of deflation, and at the same time prices rising because of economy. Unstable economy now. I would ponder on repurchasing the ver15 at a discount than paying for the next year subscription at $79. Any thought to this?

(My thought)

As new users we use to pay up to 83 cents a day for the first year of A:M.
As we upgraded each year we paid 27 cents.
We pay about 22 cents today.
(Those who websubscribed last year only paid 13 cents a day!)

The standard rate for subscribing has been $99 a year for over a decade.
New users now pay $79 instead of $299.
Even the subscription at $79 represents a substantial discount over the standard $99 pricetag.
So A:M users can get A:M at 20%-80% off the old rate right now... today.

For those not happy with current discount what else is there to say.

This topic has gone a bit sour. I think most of us are beyond offering any further useful advice. Hope everyone had a wonderful thanksgiving and is saving up for next year of A:M. I've never regretted my upgrade.

The choice is yours, Yardie. Join us, or don't. (At the current exchange rate between US dollars and your currency, you have more a bargain than ever before. )

See you on the other side! Cheers.