I started working in betweens for the first scene. Blocking is nice and clean(nice job Mike),
but I wonder if I could add a couple seconds at the beginning, everything is going pretty fast
right at the start, He reads, puts his book on the chair arm, picks the funnel on his head,
and starts oiling his elbow in the first 3 seconds of the first scene. I think it's good to let
the character still(reading) for a second or 2 to let the viewer grab the scene. Keeping
the same blocking, just streatching a little.
If not possible, no big deal.

Michel

Yeah, give it a try Michel... You've got a good eye.

Here's a little progress.
Click to view attachment

Michel

That comes across quite well. I can see what you mean about it being too fast before. It needs the Foley sounds behind it for me to tell if it needs to be even slower.

Just some thoughts, my 2 bits.

I have no idea what time constraints, if any, may be involved here but this is the introductory scene. Intro's are important. They pull the audience's mind and focus from the real world (did I lock the car?, What should I fix for dinner,etc) into our world. In any roller coaster ride, getting into the car and fastening the seat belt is part of the anticipatory process.

I would suggest an even slower scene: Tin, while reading heaves sigh, starts to continue reading but sets the book down with another very bored sigh. Looks around obviously looking for something to do. Sigh; shrug; then retrieves oil can and begins oiling (several places so the audience stays with us). Tin bent over oiling his ankle when Flapping off screen causes him to lift his head (insert closeup of Tin's face, startled, curious, but excited. Something Different! A glimpse of child like adventurousness swallowed by regal responsible take charge resoluteness ) tin then begins following the crow caught up in mystery.

I most certainly don't mean to step on anybody's toes in any way. I live in a world of imagination, and this was the way it struck me. I can keep these things to myself, but I thought I'd speak up this once to see if you are interested in my nonsense.

I looked at the clip again, and I guess slower pacing is what I am talking about. I suggested the oiling of the ankle so that Tin would be bent over and the first reaction would be the lifting of the head to see what the noise was about then followed by the surprise of seeing a crow in the castle. I'll shut up now. The animation is great.

Myron

That's coming along nicely Michel! I think it might be funny if Tinman looks up the first time slowly to see what the noise was (first crow) then happily goes back to oiling again thinking it was his imagination. Then we see the second crow and he looks up a second time even quicker than the first.

Keep up the good work.

Thank you for your comments Myron.
I agree with you on the spacing, I stretched it a couple seconds already.
I too think you should let the audience settle down and size the character,
I am not doing the camera, I do inbetweens in an already blocked scene.
Maybe the character will be already introduced in tne movie intro.
And you're not stepping on anyone's toes, your comments are useful
and welcome.

Michel

Nice job Michel! The crows seems to be flying a little fast? They look like speeding bullets to me - I know you didn't animate them.

The crows don't appear to have a flying action yet. Would you be up to making one? It would be used in several scenes in the movie.

Ken, I like your idea, but again not enough time to insert the hold
that it would need.

Holmes, I already made a fly action, I will give it more amplitude and speed;
right now it cycles in one second, I need to shorten that.

Thank you!

Michel

If you set "Stride Length" you don't need to worry about "shortening" it...

Insert it if you want to... I think I'm going to do it during Edit anyway, so why not you?

Thanks Martin,I didn't know you could do that with a character flying.
I scaled the action already, but I will experiment that with the flock of crows coming later.
Pretty much the same clip with more noticeable wing movements.Click to view attachment

Michel

Pretty good flying action. Make sure you add it to svn. It might need abit more overlap on the wing tips. I've added another pose to the crow called Feet_Back. You can use it to put his feet in a more natural pose.

That's really nice looking animation. The flapping action looks pretty good, but the birds blow through the room so fast, it looks like they are flapping in slow motion. Can you double the flapping speed in the Chor? ... maybe?

From looking at this video, which plays at 15 fps:
http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/143219/...nd-pooping.html
It looks like in normal conditions, a crow flaps its wings between 3 and 4 times per second - similar to your flapping action, but this crow looks like it is flapping a lot faster.

In this video, from about 1:00 - 1:45 are some views of crows flying from a front view.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmvu51KVclI

And this is just some really cool footage of arial bird combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-EA-1Tam6c

Thanks Holmes, good reference. I should always search for reference first.
I will increase the pace and make it more irregular.

Michel

Ok, I inserted 2 seconds of suspicion after the first crow's passage,
I think it would maybe need 1 more second of hold, and maybe 1 more second
with the next camera when he goes back to oil his joints. The crow's wings
are faster too.Click to view attachment

Michel

I agree. Do it.

Looks good.

Very good!

the one thing that strikes me is we see the 1st crow start screen right and fly to 2nd screen then camera goes back to TW then we go back to what I think is the 2nd crow but he is from center screen to down hallway and around corner. This appears at least to me that time has stood still for crow and it's confusing weather the 2nd crow is the same crow or a 2nd one? perhaps if we make the 1st crow enter and exit then 2nd can enter and fly 3/4 of all the way? maybe have the camera fallow one of them with a gentle path as if we are flying beside it some thing to show the audience that this a 2nd crow and it has importance to story

Yes Mark, the second crow was too far on the path already,
when the camera cut, I must have messed it up a bit when moving
frames. All crows(5 more coming later in the scene) fly on the same path,
I will add some variation to that.
Thank you,

Michel

A little more progress. Added a couple seconds after the first crow.
Click to view attachment

Michel

Getting better! I'm finding it hard to read TWs reaction at frame 400.....being scared or scaring? And the wing flaps still seem abit "half hearted".

Edit: I managed to snag an image from one of the videos. The wings go much higher.

Actually I do find it hard to read too; that's where inbetweening ingenering gets tough
The posing is nice, but it's not the reaction I would have tought Tinman would have.
The script doesn't read like such an intense reaction either.
I join a clip of the ending just to show the flight with more amplitude.
I like it better, right now the wings go almost vertical. It would look better with some motion blur.Click to view attachment

Michel

More progress, I tried an approach showing more surprise than fear towards the end.
Hope it looks right.Click to view attachment

Michel

Hehehe...

That's more like it. Good enough to render now.

Nice work, Michel!
The birds would look much better if you added banking into their flight paths. Also I think that you could add another bird in their second appearance so that the shots don't look identical.

Thank you! I added some banking and path variations as Paul suggested, and it works better.
Not much change else except for the last pose. I commited that and would start a new scene.
I wouldn't mind making another pass in a couple months though. I think it would need a few more seconds
at the beginning, for one thing.
Click to view attachment


Michel

Very well done.

The only trouble I have is with the camera cuts - it is not obvious where the birds are flying to/from in relation to Tinman - perhaps it will be clearer when the background is included and can serve as a reference point.

I wonder, if when you revisit this scene you might consider putting in a very fast crow swoop in the immediate frames preceding frame 201 (first camera cut) - as if the crow passes somewhat close to Tinman, so that we have some indication of proximity.

(Sound effects are really needed to truly guage this shot - looks good though.)

We'll be doing an Edit of the 1st half of the movie soon, so for further reference and to keep our thoughts on this scene all in one place, I think I'll write my 1st impressions here:

Maybe, we won't even see the first crow fly - we'll just hear it as we watch Tin Woodman will look up, wondering what the noise is? That way, we the audience are put into his head.

I also think the scene needs a few more seconds of mood establishment before the crows.

I like that idea. We may need to milk his first reaction abit more too.

I agree with Nancy and Martin, that there is something not quite right with the crows.
I did not change much the camera cuts and the timing for the birds, since the scene was already blocked.
That brings me to the subject of inbetweening. I had some doubts, I tought it looked like blue collar job,
but I have to say I see it diiferently now; it's good to have somebody else's perception to start with, 2 heads better than one.
What I got so far with blocked scenes was more inspiring than constraining, and it is not a rigid system, discussion is open,
like we see in this thread.
One thing I see is not quite right yet, is that camera is still inconsistent. Every blocker has his style, there doesn't to be any consensus
or discussion about camera handling. I think it is huge if you want continuity. I do like your idea Martin of doing a first edit right now,
to have a sharper idea of where we are going. It would be useful, I think, to render a full shaded render of a blocked act before we even
start inbetweening(Ok I'm volunteeer).
Just thinking loud between 2 scenes.

Michel