I'm trying to make a model from a rotoscope image. The image looks fine when in it's own image window, but when it's a rotoscope in a model window, the realtime representation is pixelated. This makes it impossible to make a spline follow the image lines accurately. I know this was brought up before but was there a solution found?

Thanks.

It may be a memory problem. When I open a model with a ton of splines or large decals, the rotos tend to pixelate. When I break that model into smaller parts and work on them individually, the rotos are ok. If you are just starting the model with minimal splines, then I'm out of advice, sorry.

Here is a way I did it. It depends on which reder engine you choose "OpenGL" or "Direct3D" in your "Global" tab from the "Options", but from both render engines allow you to select "Bi-Linear Filtered Textures". Try this if it helps.
CHEERS!

It's just a new model so not many splines.

Bi-linear filter seemed to smooth the lines which made it less blocky looking, but the quality still isn't up to rendering quality. Opengl and DirectX are the same. I've attached an image showing the quality.....in the lower right corner you can see a section that's rendered.

In that case, I am not sure what sure what else could have caused it. It could be the memory as Eric have mentioned.
CHEERS!

the rendered part looks pretty fuzzy. What happens if you use a higher-res rotoscope?

You get a better realtime representation. Oh well.

Edit: Hang on. I tried the "bad" image in the same model window and it looked better too. I think it's something to do with the project file. Experimenting.....

Edit1: Apparently one of the images I was bringing in was corrupting the realtime representation of the rest. Maybe the quality of all images take on the quality level of the worst image? Don't really know, but now I can get the rest to look good by leaving out one image. Thanks for the suggestion.

Can you tell what is wrong or different about the "bad" image? Is it a jpeg, bmp, tng, or... Did you get it off the net, or did you edit it in Photoshop? How large is it? Does it have paths from photoshop embedded in it?

Actually I'm not sure that was it now. I got the image to corrupt again by just copying a pasting some splines into the model. So, it could be the act of copying and pasting in any model that does it. Though now I can't replicate it. It's sort of elusive like that backward facing patches one when you use the rotate manipulator sometimes.

Another situation that seems to cause it is something in a chor. Possibly a light. If I open the model, the image looks fine. But when I import the chor, it goes pixelated.

I was having a small problem prior to v 15d where if I copied and pasted splines in a model the roto image would disappear. If I changed views it would come back and no harm done, but I believe that was solved with 15d. FWIW

It happened to me last night with a brand new project and only one picture in the image folder. At first it looked fine, then after some modeling, it turned low res. So now we can eliminate the possibility of it being a bad picture since it was fine in the beginning and there were no other pictures in the project. I'm gonna play around with a new project file with only that pic as a roto and see if I can replicate the problem.

Did you set the preview-resolution for images?
Just have a look at the properties of the image-folder in the PWS.

*Fuchur*

Thanks Fuchur.
OK!!!!!!!!!! I have the definitive work around for this display problem. If you find your rotoscope goes all blocky and low resolution:

Select the Images folder in the PWS.
Go to the properties and change to these settings:

Preview resolution>right click>not set (This goes to "low" for some reason)
Instance crop style> within cache
Right click on the Image folder in PWS>Clear cache

So now the right settings are set. But now the project needs to be saved for them to stick. The way I do that is to:
Double click the materials folder to create a new material. Make some changes to the material properties. Delete the new material.

Now save the project and your rotoscope should be high resolution again.

Thanks for the settings and workaround Ken, I've been struggling with this myself

The process of saving the project is still abit iffy but I've managed to get it done twice now. But the original problem as to why the low value becomes set in the preview resolution is beyond me.

Added another step in the process (bolded) that I think is important.

Thanks Ken ... and Fuchur ... and everyone else. I never would have thought of that.

Nice one, Ken!

No problem. Glad to find this myself guys.

So after abit more experimentation, here's the final cutdown procedure:

Select the Images folder in the PWS.
Go to the properties and change to these settings:

Preview resolution>right click>not set
Right click on the Image folder in PWS>Clear cache (Tip:This can also be done from the top of the properties window)

Press spacebar or just pan the model view to refresh to high res image.

I tested it and it workes like a charm! Thanks again Ken

Strange! I couldn't get this to work by following the instructions above. Then I switched the preview resolution to 'Low' and the rotoscope lost all the pixelation. This was after switching to DirX and back again to OpenGL and switching on bi-linear. I'm trying to do the same thing on my other computer, in A:M14, but haven't managed to get it to change yet. In fact I am getting exceptions.

Worked for me! Wooooohooooooo!

Ken, I think I love you and want to have your children.*


* Since this is not possible with current scientific and medical procedures I think I'm pretty safe. If this ever becomes possible I hope I'm either dead or too old to follow up on it. It's the thought that counts right?



-vern

Oh dear. Everything has gone back to it's pixelated old self!
I have been through the routine several times to try forcing A:M15e to display the rotoscope correctly but to no avail.
Can you guys just check to see if you are getting the same problem?
Thanks.
_________________
By the way, this is not just happening to rotoscopes but to any decals. An image on a layer is just as pixelated as a rotoscope and this makes certain tasks impossible to achieve.

Sentiment taken Vern! Now let's say no more about it.

I'm not sure what's going wrong Paul. In your previous post you mention changing to Low resolution. You shouldn't need to do that at all. Set it to "Not Set".

So to confirm it's:
Not set
Clear cache
Pan view

Maybe screen shots would help diagnose the problem.
I'm doing it in v15e with Opengl.

Updated drivers but no improvements, in fact Direct3D won't show a rotoscope at all now. OpenGL just looks blocky as before.
Resolution always reverts back to low no matter what I set it to now.
-----------------
I don't think either of my graphics card are up to the task.
Strange.

You're definitely right clicking>not set? That unsets it everytime for me. Maybe try altering the "Instance crop style" value? Or clearing the cache first?

I must have tried every combination and sequece, Ken. So is your fix permanent on your system?

I guess it's time to start looking around for a new graphics card.

No, it comes back every so often for some reason. But it's just a matter of repeating the process. I don't see how your graphics card is the fault if it was displayed at high resolution in the first place. Maybe try a new model/project.

I've just tried the same here. When I set it to low or high or not set, it does not change a thing in the view. Even when I select Clear Cache. But if I've changed the mode and after that I switch from OpenGL to Direct3D or vice versa, the settings are applied. I hope this works for you Paul.

This appears to be another problem with bringing in data from earlier versions of A:M.
I started a new projectin A:M15e, applied a 32bit TGA image to a camera as a rotoscope and it is displaying clearly. Hooray!

If this is file compatibility issue then I would expect it to have been noticed by people working on SO, with models made for TWO in A:M14, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Or does it?

Maybe you're just filling up your video RAM? Reboot (to make sure the videocard resets) and try that?

Oh!!!! Youre doing it in a camera? I'm doing it in a model window. I haven't experimented with a camera so the steps might be abit different? Or maybe Martin is on to something.

Tried that several times. No luck.

What I have just discovered is that jpg images work, they do not become pixelated and blocky when used as a rotoscope or on a layer, but all the 32 bit formats seem to have issues.

Click to view attachment
The image above is a screen capture showing the realtime display from a camera in A:M 15e. There are four patches in the scene, each with a jpg decal.
Notice that the top decal is completely obscured yet all of the others are legible. These images were all displaying correctly when I last saved this project.

This is the erratic behaviour that I keep witnessing in A:M. Pick a version, pick a computer, same erratic results. I have not experienced this even once in other applications so I am pretty certain that it is not the graphics card and a little careful searching will reveal that this problem has existed in A:M for years.

If I open a project and the display is degraded in this way I can sometimes get it to correct itself by switching to Direct3D and then back to OpenGL but only sometimes, and without any certainty that it will be correctable next time that I open the project.

Can you share the project file with images Paul?

Click to view attachment
Okay, Rodney. Here is a simple project with eight decalled patches. All of them display reasonably well in the realtime display except for the wide text box at the top. For some reason that gets degraded significantly while the alphabet boxes seem to display well even when they are scaled up or down.

Here is the file. Go into the model window and press '1' to view the realtime display through the camera.

Click to view attachment

Hoping that you can embarass me by revealing something stupid that I am doing.

There's something about that image. Maybe it's because there's such a difference between the width and height? I can get it to clear by importing the model into a new model that has the image as a rotoscope. But as soon as it's reopened again it goes pixelated.

There's only 3 images in that zip

Yes! I was wondering if using several square patches, instead of one long rectangle patch, would solve the problem but it didn't. That jpg is no diferent from the alphabet jpg in all respects, except for the dimensions. It must be something to do with the width:height ratio. I'm going to crop that jpg to dimensions which are evenly divisible by 8 to see if that fixes it.


Oops! Oh well. You can use any image you like in the empty decals. The important image is the long, thin panel.

Paul,
I know there is the element of tracking down the issue at hand but another thing to consider is your end goal.
If Rotoscopes will work better you may want to pursue those.
If I understand correctly, realtime rendering by its very nature is going to present patch images in less detail than it will rotoscopes.

I did some testing with both patch images and rotoscopes with varying results.
I had the most success by rerendering your image and reimporting. PNG worked pretty well.
After awhile however, I started asking... 'what is the goal here?'

You may find you have more success viewing the image in an Action or Chor.
There is limited usage to viewing the images in the Model window. Especially if you aren't going to view it from there in production.
Am I correct in my understanding that you really want to test this out is in an Action or Chor?

I have a theory....

Perhaps things like OpenGL and Direct3D have to do some one-size-fits-all approximations to get their real-time stuff done in a reasonable amount of time.

They probably dump bitmaps into one standard size container that is the same for all bitmaps they are trying to show. Maybe the default is 128x128 or maybe it is 256x256. It probably isn't 1024x1024.

If you down sampled a 1024 wide texture in to a 256 wide container you'd probably get something like what you are seeing.

Maybe there is a registry switch that controls such things.

Yes. This is along the lines of what I am thinking too but I really didn't want to get this side-tracked from what I was trying to do in the first place and don't feel like getting into researching all that at the moment, playing with dangerous things like the registry.

I cropped the problematic jpg image to 1024 x 72 pixels and applied it to a new patch but the distortion still occurs.

Rodney. This started as a simple test of rotoscopes and decaled patches for use as an interface for something similar to the FACE controls. I do understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat but when I saw this reoccuring problem again I wanted to find out why it happens so that I can fix it, if it is something wrong at my end. If it is not something at my end perhaps some combined analysis would help to throw some light onto the possible causes, which would be in everyone's interest. Personally I would like to know if we can fix this or not and if not then the knowledge to avoid using long, thin images for decals should be passed on as good advice.

I have been viewing the results from the model, pose, action and choreography windows and I'm not seeing any differences there.

Same results here.

I compared a file I created with the two images to your sample. Same as you it looks fine until you open it again. Looking at the AM file in a text editor there isn't one thing different anywhere in the file format itself that would account for the different appearance of the two different images.

I opened it in Photoshop, resaved it, changed the canvas size, different formats, jpg, tga. I deleted all the other decals. Started from scratch etc etc. That ONE DANG IMAGE ALWAYS GOES BAD.... JUST THAT ONE DANG IMAGE.

This is the most puzzling thing I've ever seen. You can't even say what is causing it.

Is it possible... the image is.... uh... haunted? By an unfriendly but relatively benign spirit?
You know like that old show with the guys mom in the car?

I have nothing I tell you. Not a thing. Nothing. I don't like not finding something to explain this. Weirdest thing ever.

-vern

Freaking wierd with a capital W!

I made that image big like the others (not long and thin). Decaled it on the OTHER big patch. SAME PROBLEM!

I'm leaning more towards a "haunting" now.

-vern

Last post then I will stop on this for now.

In my tests it wasn't that one long thin image that got flukey, it was all of them. Once one went bad they all went bad and then I couldn't get them to go good again with out deleting and reimporting.

This is a weird thing. Very hard to track down. Very very hard if not impossible to "replicate" or find a cause. I have other projects with decals and such that look fine and don't go bad... of course I'm not always paying much attention in the realtime display.

-vern

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to look at this! We may not have cracked the problem but at least I know that this is not just happening on my machines and that there is a definite glitch there. Thanks for the tips on resetting the preview resolution and emptying the cache! That has helped alot.

I'm taking a break from this too now. Hopefully I will find that other cat skinning machine.

Just a heads up.

PNG format works great. I have not seen any lowering of resolution or pixelation using PNG format. I have always used TGA before but since I found it's much easier to export multiple rotoscopes from a single photoshop document using the web export and PNG format. I just recently discovered that the resolution of my rotoscopes are PERFECT and stay that way. I currently have a document with about 15 "average" sized rotoscopes and was startle when I realized they looked so good after several days of working with them. I have not tested this with decals yet.

-vern

Mark here's a temporary workaround for your problem. By temporary I mean it only lasts till you close and re-open the project, but it might be worth it in some cases. (I've just found one). Anyway, here the steps:

Open a new project and model.
Drag the problem image into the model as a rotoscope.
Make sure to leave this model window open!
Import the problem model/chor into the project.

The first "dummy" model with the rotoscope seems to make AM display the right resolution for all models.....that is as I say until you save the project. Actually opening and closing say the pose slider window will shake it back to low resolution too.