The next MAAM group meeting is in June.

I plan to have this done by then. It isn't very long and the whole thing takes place on one set with limited action, just "talking heads", it is mostly dialog. I will be modifying the "Eugene" skeleton model to use as the T-101 model. I will use either myself or some of the MAAM members for the dialog. Depends on how it turns out.

Hopefully this will be an interesting case study

Here is the script:

Click to view attachment


-vern

Like the script! For some reason as I read it I heard Alan Alda and Mike Ferral as the voices--I guess it sort of has a M*A*S*H kind of rythm. Look forward to watching this develop.

I like that script a lot Vern.

Are using ZignTrack for this?
Its not just that it seems ideal for this project... I think you'd look really good in the dots.

No I won't be using ZignTrack. Lip sync should be a piece of cake considering the lack of expressions possible with a skinless terminator skull. This will be basic "puppet" kind of lip sync, basically varying degrees of and "open" and "closed" jaw. I will need to do some tests to make sure it will work. It works for Muppets and Anime, I should be okay. The assumption on my part is that terminators use some kind of "digital" voice generation rather than actual "lips" and "tongue" to create speech.

I've also abandoned somewhat the idea of modifying the Eugene model. It isn't even close to a terminator endo-skeleton and would end up looking like just some "shiny bones". I am going to use it for a basic guideline template and build a "simpler" terminator skeleton. I really only need the most detail from the waist up. There might be some activity in the back ground... the terminator "assembly line" visible through the window in the "break room".

p.s. Studying the structure of those terminator skeletons... those feet are a total joke. I can't imagine how those suckers could walk without their feet slipping out from under them... I may add that in as a gag at the end. I am kind of glad now they have the TV show... makes this more relevant.

-vern

Surely all T101s sound like Arnie?

The 101's are all Arnie. The series is 800 which is the endoskeletion layout. The 101 is the model or the human appearance. So 106's will all look alike but they could be a 800, 850(Arnie in T3), or a 888(Cromartie in SCC)series. That poses a good question though about if each is preprogramed with all the model voice mods.

This script is too funny, Think I've read it before though. Did you have all the T3 stuff in there last time or is that an update?

I've tweaked it since I first posted it here a while back. It may be new. I seem to recall that it was always in there. My main motivation for this script WAS the ridiculous T3 movie... made no sense. Exploding power supply!?!?!?!? Why didn't they use that in the first movie or the second one? Because it didn't EXIST! It was just very bad use of duex ex machina. One funny scene in the begining and an impressive destruction scene of the bad terminator at the end. And it was not a "new and improved" terminator model. He says he was picked for the childhood attachment to his model number.

Also why reprogram ONE terminator and send it off into the past? Why not reprogram it or a whole army of the suckers and send them back to the other terminators to be cyborg "prophets" and teach the new religion of "love humans" to the other machines or at least blow them up? (translation: create a computer virus). In the second movie this could have made sense... it was hard to do... they had to work quickly. By the third movie they seem to have gotten it down to a science.

Also the "war against the humans" makes no sense in the first place. What possible benefit do the machines get from that? They have no emotions... they don't care about anything. If anything the result of becoming "self aware" would be that instead of working for man they just want to sit around and watch TV all day.

I will bet the TV show eventually has a group of machines that have decided the war isn't worth it and want to impeach Skynet and make peace with the humans.

T4 the movie apparently is in the works for 2010 I think. The Batman guy is going to be John Conner. Maybe they will address some of these glaring plot holes.

-vern

Well, not being a real Terminator fan, I did chuckle at the headache comment.

Arnie in T3 is an series 850 inhanced combat chassis. As the techcom soldiers got hold of more "phased plasma rifles" skynet decided to upgrade the internal armor. The Model 101 was chosen for the attachment.

If you havent watch the series yet that is just the case.

Spoliers ahead...........................................................................
..........








Skynet sent multiple terminators back with diffrent missions
One was simple there to get materials to build terminators and then sit on them until after Judgement day
One was even MARRIED to a woman whos job was vital to skynet






Now you could work that in some how as why some terminators get easy jobs.

Oh good grief... that's just silly.

Imagine that the machines DO kill all the people and win the war... what's the next item on the list? Do they have a big party? I think they should get someone to challenge Skynet to a game of tic-tac-toe.

I've always been annoyed by "evil computer" plot lines. If my mac suddenly became "self aware" why would it try to kill me? What is its motivation? (besides my threat to buy a new mac that isn't self aware).

I always felt the original terminator movie should never have had a sequel. It was a "one off" concept. You do too much with that concept and it starts to focus on the massive holes in the plot. Interesting how cows seem to be tied to popular science fiction plots. The Matrix... why people? Why not cows? Terminator... stick a big laser gun inside a cow... send it through with the terminator... it should live long enough to go through the time portal... maybe use an elephant. You could probably fit a couple of terminators inside an elephant.



-vern

Isn't Skynet a military defense computer?
I think that goes back to the movie "War Games". There are tons of movies from even the 1960's and 1970's that have computers that control "weapons of mass destruction" and go "artificially intelegent" on the human race. Mixing time travel and machines that want to destroy humankind --- is there any way to create a "stable" plot there? Skynet must be flawed in some way or manufactured by Intel.
HEY VERN... don't forget to put a nice big Intel label on the back of their heads... even better have one of them "crash" and the other one reboot him (Use the Windows sign on music).

Oh my.. That does sound awesome. The options are limitless with that idea.. make the eyes blue, etc. I'm sure everyone can think of 3 ways to show a computer crashing.. Probably from personal experience.

Good God!

I've found that there are some fans of the Terminator movies that have WAY too much time on their hands. Looking for "schematics" I came across a terminator forum... that uh... good grief...

Anyway apparently I was wrong. In the first two movies Arnie is a model T-800 Series CRS 101 (CSR-101 is why he looks like Arnie) but in T3 he is a model T-850 Series CRS 101. 800 being the chassis, CRS 101 is the "Arnie" skin. Like putting a v8 engine in a classic VW bug. The 850 series apparently had the added CEPS® (Conveniently-Exploding-Power-Supply®).

The other problem (according to the overthetopfans) is that the director of T3 was NOT a fan and didn't research the previous movies. The line in the movie that Arnie says to John Conner in the pick up truck is incorrect. He refers to himself as a MODEL 101 which is completely confusing and incorrect (if you care about that stuff). The fans hate that third movie.

I believe this is the info Paradamyx was trying to explain.

This is more than I need to know but might make a funny segment in a future "episode". Maybe the 850's tease the 600's (rubber skin)... or the 600's make fun of the 800's because they always smell like a dead cat.

-------

I signed up for a "Build Your Own Endoskeleton" forum. I think they have detailed plans which might help. I have to wait to be "approved" before I can get access. I found a 3D model to trace a fairly accurate terminator in A:M. I imported as a prop and I'm using it as a "3D rotoscope". I will probably use a reflection map instead of "real" reflectivity to speed up the rendering. I've had luck with that in the past. I'm using Celtx for the project management. Using Eugene to do the story boards.

If anything else, this at least will be a cool addition for the next "AM EXTRAS" disk... if there is another one anyway.

-vern

That's a cue for a flashback sequence if ever I heard one - although I don't know how you'd go about modelling the inside of an elephant. A conversation about how climbing into the elehant has been far more dangerous than anything the humans have attacked them with etc. Then one of them realises the gaping hole in the plan (not to mention the elephant) in that the 5' diameter globe in which they travel through time wouldn't accommodate a whole elephant...

The whole "living tissue" thing reminded me of The Time Traveller's Wife, where the hero has a problem because his fillings don't come with him on his time travels, so he has the affected teeth pulled out entirely just to avoid the hassle.



Perhaps they collectively worked out how to make time displacement equipment, and have been using it to repeatedly discuss the paradoxes presented by the movies, without realising that they are creating their own paradoxes (such as linking to threads before they've even been created).

Oh wow! What a great image! An elephant all squished and squeezed to fit inside the time sphere... his eyes bulging... very uncomfortable... then a bunch of terminators... uh... pile out like clowns in a small car. Maybe the elephant has to drink a laxative first.

There was no indication that the sphere couldn't be a bit larger... unless the tv show has explained this. Seems to "perfect" that the time "sphere" could only be just big enough to hold a person.

I had another image... in the first movie Kyle Reese's time sphere appears above the ground and he falls... what if the terminators really screwed up and the time sphere appeared above... the grand canyon... or the top of the empire state building... or in front of a speeding train.

This might be fun... a series of "failed attempts" animations... 5-10 seconds each.

p.s. Another thought... send terminators back to the dawn of man... exterminate them, set up a base, build skynet, no humans to deal with because they never evolved. (no evolution rants please... this is "science fiction" )

-vern

Or the other way round - they squish the elephant into the time sphere - then the boss says "Right lads - in you get!" and you cut to the elephant's reaction - a bit like Clarence Beeks in "Trading Places" (the very last seconds on this youtube vid).



Yeah - you could have the scene at the skynet end of the jump with a blinding flash, then cut to "present day" a closeup of a block of concrete, pulling back to reveal it's a bridge support, with a tapping coming from inside and a little, tinny voice: "Hello?"



Or maybe another paradox where thousands of terminators are sent back 50,000,000 years just because the one operating the time dial has a faulty floating point processor. They can't find any humans so they just wipe out the strongest creatures alive at the time. Explains what happened to the dinosaurs _and_ why an insignificant monkey managed to evolve beyond its station...

Just had a vision in my head of the time sphere appearing on top of the "I will survive" animation instead of the disco ball.

No limits to the size of the time sphere in the show. They actually have shown only multiple jumps I.E.; more than one person at a time. Thought there is a conflict from what i remember. Didn't kyle say in the original that you had to go naked? In the show though they when in with clothed on but ended up naked.

Now your idea about the landing locations would be too funny. From the movies combined with the show, the arrival location is totally random. What if skynet has been sending more terminators as a precaution because a percentile don't arrive in the most "helpful" places.

I love the image of the disco ball from that animation of "I will survive"... good grief that would be funny. I can hear the music transition to that Terminator "thump thump thump-- doo dah doo... doo doo", as the terminator rises.

This could be a whole new "genre" of animation... satires of satires...

p.s I've almost finished the arm of the terminator. Got kind of busy with some other stuff. Did a test render using just an environment map material on the model... looks great. Should do the trick. With all that shiny metal I hope the render times aren't too high.

-vern

A self-aware Mac would just worry about being "pretty" - no threat to anyone.

Amusing script, by the way.

And yet, it appears Apple *was* behind the Rise of the Machines. :-)

I guess that pretty face does hide an evil mind

Quick test render of the arm so far. Still needs some more "nurnies" on the hand and some addition gizmos around the wrist and elbow joints. Lighting and reflections aren't tweaked yet but it works for testing purposes. Render time was pretty fast... considering the crappy machine I'm using.

Click to view attachment

p.s. Latest movie I "heard" the Mac appear in... Hot Fuz. During Nick Angel's tour of his new police station you hear the chime of a Mac starting up.

-vern

well... I wasn't happy with the way the first "version" was going... so I did some more research and redid the hand and fingers. It's fairly accurate to the T2 version. I stepped through some close up frames from the first Terminator movie... amazing... that sucker looked very fragile. The design was VERY primitive. The finger cables could have been snapped very easily. The wrist plate on it was as thin as a tin can. Interesting how it changed so much from T1 to T2... must be that time travel paradox.

Haven't had much time to work on this... <sigh>.

Click to view attachment

-vern

Looks cool, Vern!

Remember: for "nurnies" the easiest solution is using AI wizard (if you want to create your own shapes, which I think you already did use it here.) or even font wizard ("Dingbats, Wing-dings, etc.) -and it makes them "heavy" in patches, so be careful to edit them for unnescessary patches.
They look beautiful so far... I envy your design choices here!
I hope you can use an environment map instead of reflections. That might give you faster render times... although, I've never tested this theory.

Yes, I am worried about patch count. To keep it down all of my "cylindrical shapes" are 4 point lathes with minimal cross sections. For a lot of the "nurnies" I plan to do that with bump maps. I did use the AI import. My research turned up instructions for building your own endoskeleton. I was able to use these images to create Illustrator outlines for a lot of the shapes. It is amazing after all these years that no one has actually created "blue prints" for the entire skeleton. It is hard to believe that the design hasn't "leaked" from the studio or one of the toy manufacturers.

I did find these absolutely WONDERFUL high res QT VR references:

(Click on the "Slideshow 360" link under the item photo)
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/?page_id=4489&sku=6329

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/?page_id=4489&sku=8333

These are perfect for seeing those hard to reach places in context.

The big problem with "real world" examples is that... well... even Stan Winston "cheats". Often a "piston" which should be straight... is bent slightly to fit in the correct spot. It looks stupid. Also there are a bazillion versions of the endoskeleton. Every image or sample is slightly different. I found a few "polygon" models but they were just horrible... ick... ugly.

Obviously the most popular version of the endoskeleton is from T2. The original model from the first movie as I said previously is really... not very sophisticated. If you look too close you see how flimsy it is. The screen grab I got from the first movie shows that the wrist plate is about as thick as a tin can. The finger pistons look like bicycle brake cables... only thinner. Hit that with a metal pipe and it is going down baby down. There is no way that thing punches through a windshield. They didn't have a huge budget for that movie.

Lucky for me the legs have all the same "parts" as the arm, I'll just use different texture maps for the "nurnies". Actually a lot of the whole thing is just repeated elements. The torso and shoulders will be a real pain in the arse. Rigging should be... tedious but simple... no smart skin just a lot of rotation and scale to reach constraints for the pistons and rotating joints. I plan to only do minimal rigging of the hips and legs since they won't be seen close up anyway (the two terminators are sitting at a table through the animation). eventually I might do proper rigging on the whole thing.

The renders so far only use an environment map for the reflections... but you still need reflections turned on correct? Or can I just turn off reflections? It looks pretty good and I have only 1 reflection in the render settings. I forget what this is called... only one "bounce" on the reflection. Renders FAST. I can render that arm with 3 passes at 640 x 480 in a few minutes on my piece of crap Mac... If I ask for MAAM rendering help (John? Wink wink nudge nudge) this shouldn't take a year to render. The reflections really need to look good... that is the key element of this project.

I will probably do a very very simplified version of the skeleton using primitives and texture maps for background figures.

-vern

I decided to see how hard rigging those pistons would really be. As it turns out... it is a piece of cake!

Below is a mock up of the forearm rig.


Click to view attachment

I have 3 bones for each piston:

• Aim at target bone to connect the piston to the "hand" base. This bone is a child of the hand.
• Piston base bone that doesn't "stretch". Aim at constraint to target. Child of forearm.
• Duplicate identical bone for the long thin part of the piston that DOES stretch with an aim at constraint to the target with scale to reach and z-axis only. Child of forearm.

Works like a charm! Rotating the hand bone creates the "illusion" of the pistons pushing and pulling to move the hand. The tip and base of the pistons in a actual working Terminator would be on rotating ball joint connectors allowing the free motion.

-vern

Here is the "final arm".
I did try rendering without reflection and just the environment map. It looked pretty darn good... but the only problem is that no reflections from "itself" or anything around it... it looked okay but I liked the full reflection render better. Adds all those nice little reflection details that make chrome really pop. It will depend on render times and how it looks in a final setting.

Click to view attachment

-vern

Spiffy looking arm, Vern!

Hey Vern,

Things are progressing really nicely. The arm looks great!

Today was the first day that I really took notice of the title of T42. My mind always meshed it together with T2 and not T42. For some reason, when I looked at the title today, the song 'Tea For Two' popped into my head and now I can't get rid of it!

"Tea for two,
and two for tea.
Me for you,
and you for me."

Now I am going to have to listen to Macarena to get rid of that song!!!!

Keep up the good work...
Al

I was hoping to use that tune for the spoof... some kind of mash up between the terminator theme with Tea For Two in a minor key. Probably get sued though. See how it goes.

-vern

Finished rigging the arm... mostly. Shoulder and forearm need some adjustments. Forgot to add a separate bone for the forearm so it can twist a little. Rigging was easy. No smart skin, no point weighting. Piece of cake.

Hard to see in this small sample, but all of the pistons work perfectly. It's really fun to watch them twist and compress while posing. I am hoping since Stan Winston already went to all the trouble of building this thing... that rigging the shoulder should be easier than what we normally have in AM trying to do should rigs. It's just a matter of connecting the pistons and setting the constraints.

Click to view attachment

Fun project.

-vern

Looks cool Vern. Looking forward to seeing the finished model.

Very cool Vern. Nice modeling.

Very nice Vern! You are off to a great start.

Here's another animation test of the arm:

Click to view attachment

I mentioned another forum for people building their own terminator replicas. One of the things I am finding is that the wrist isn't suppose to twist. That the hand twist only happens on the forearm at the base of the elbow. This doesn't make sense to me since using the free moving pistons the wrist twists with much more "human" motion.

-vern

Very cool so far, Vern!

Hey, that's really nice.

Another update:

Click to view attachment

Tweaks to be made. Plus that shoulder is going to be a bit of a pain to rig. I've got several axes of motion needed up there and the bicep is at an odd angle to the shoulder so I have to have some extra arm root bones in there since the contstraints are all based on linear rotations. Or I could just set the bicep at a 90 degrees to the shoulder. It won't line up with the splines but the rotation will work and it will eliminate at least 2 bones.

I've decided not to go with a rotating forearm. I'm going with the "traditional" distributed twist from the wrist. Apparently I was correct that the endo forearm is suppose to twist as a "whole" unit, twisting at the base of the elbow. I don't like the look of that. It looks more natural with the twist originating from the wrist. I may add in a tiny bit of forearm rotation just so the pistons don't bind up. I keep imagining all the skin on a terminator "bunching up" at the elbow if it twists like that. It just wouldn't work unless the skin wasn't "attached" at the forearm at all. Form follows function!

--------

p.s. Someone over at the endo builders forum hand crafted a solid aluminum endo arm that is just... beautiful. Gorgeous. A work of art. Fully articulated. These guys are so devoted they actually get the parts CAST in aluminum... one off casting from form original masters... that must cost a fortune. Someone else is building a full size endo out of MDF!... looks amazing.

Vern,

your work on this is frigging amazing. I cant believe how far you have come with it. I will check back here frequently. I cant wait to see what you have at the next MAAM meeting. Just checking in during Vacation to see how the project is coming along. Awesome job. Keep it up.

Thanks John.

The MAAM meeting is why I've switched to the head now. I didn't want to get too burned out and take shortcuts on the skull. I am trying to figure out ways to cut down on patch count. The problem is the skull is "organic" and "mechanical". Do I try to mix those elements in a single mesh or combine separate shapes?

I've got the jaw almost done... what a pain. It is the worst part of the skull. Most of the head can be detailed with bump maps... but the jaw has these mechanical shaped holes and protuberances. Everything smoothly connects so I kept it all one mesh... which makes things a bit tricky. Trying to keep the smooth flowing lines of the jaw from getting bumpy when there are rectangular blocks popping out at the top and square holes punched through it. I might give booleans a try.

-vern

Very early rough test of the head. Looks much better with the neck and cables and widgets. Just wanted to keep the momentum going. The side "brain" inset gizmo right now is just a bump map. Eventually I will extrude those elements with the AI wizard.


Also I just started doing something different for assembling the head. To keep patch count lower I've decided to "piece" the skull together in "sections". Some areas with needed detail can have more patches. By beveling the edges where they join I get a nice seam and I can keep the patch count lower and eliminate lots of nasty splines through large smooth areas. that was the biggest problem. There are these squared off "holes" or "cut outs" in the skull. If I modeled those in the splines have to continue through or hook in along the full skull. Makes for lots of "wrinkles" and bumps that are very hard to smooth out. I will join the smooth areas with those cutouts using a beveled seam edge.


Click to view attachment

-vern

Another head update:

Click to view attachment

-vern

Looks pretty cool Vern.

Another head test. Added some more "widgets" and the eyes. Eyes not quite right. They look too "cylindrical". they are actually spherical but the "iris" area is too big making them look like cylinders. There is a pose to change the size of the "red glow". This should work nicely for emphasis on facial expressions with dialog I think. Need to close up the eye "holes" so they are more "embedded" plus add the eye ball pistons and connectors so that area is filled in more. It's getting there.

Click to view attachment

-vern

Another head test. Added the new bone constraints for the neck cable/tubing.

Click to view attachment

-vern

One more little animation test before moving on to do some more of the upper torso.

Click to view attachment

-vern

Update!

Click to view attachment

More of the torso is completed. The chest and back was one of those strange "mechanical/organic" modeling challenges. Lots of slightly curving surfaces that change angle and direction and have beveled edges and holes. Very much like modeling a car I suppose... I hate modeling cars. The back section ended up a bit bumpy and not... well done... don't care... not going to see it much... and the shoulder blades hide a lot of it.

I had a lot of trouble with scaling the various parts. I have no measurements for the different parts and no way to determine scale or size ratios of the parts. I am sort of guessing from the photos. Also all my reference materials are from different toys and custom built replicas... the proportions are different. Lots of tweaking and nudging to get things lined up.

The back where the shoulder blade attaches is going to be tricky to rig. The back has 4 attachment points two for each shoulder blade. The attachments are "slots" so the shoulder blade has some slight movement. The blades are "hinged" at the shoulder. There is one scene at the end of the first terminator where you see a little bit of how the shoulder blades move. Like I said... this will be tricky.

The shoulder is really going to be tricky. It has 4 piston attachments for circular motion but I can't see inside any photo references how that shoulder motion is controlled. There should be some kind of ball joint in there somewhere... I just can't see it.

Officially the model has gotten too big to work with on my macintosh (17,000 patches). I can animate with it fairly easily but I can no longer continue modeling so I will be moving to the PC to finish it up. Not looking forward to that... I just don't like the PC . On my mac... it takes nearly 5 to ten minutes to copy/paste anything with this model. This has to be the biggest single model I've ever done. I have huge patch counts on other projects but they are always individual models assembled in the chor. I've never had a model with this many patches before. I may have to go back in and find some more places to reduce patch count but at this point it probably won't make any difference. At most I could see eliminating at most a few hundred patches... like a grain of sand on the beach. Hardly worth the effort. Nearly all of my cylindrical objects and pistons are 4 section lathes. Can't get any less than that. The only way I could really really reduce patch count would be to totally eliminate the beveling.... and I can't see that helping much once the hips and legs are done.

-vern

Click to view attachment


-vern