I will tell this story to both get support for my actions... and possibly, maybe find out if I really was justified in my response to the situation.

About a week or two ago, my father calls me up on a Sunday afternoon;



At that point I almost dropped the phone. My frugal mennonite parents could easily have gotten a replacement for their tv in the $200-$300 range. He was looking at 36" HDTV flat screens. When we got to the store he started looking at the $800 models. I talked to the "guy" and we went with a Vizio that has the same picture quality as a Sony at nearly half the price. 36" LCD HDTV. Gorgeous.

Wondering where the cable company gets into this story? Hold on I'm getting to it.

Get it home and I had it set up in about 20 minutes or so. But the picture quality was absolute CRAP! I must have hooked it up wrong so I tried again. What I did differently this time was to bypass the cable box and hook the cable DIRECTLY into the TV. That was when the wizard behind the curtain started to reveal itself... that was when Neo found he didn't have to dodge bullets. It turns out that Agent Smith was really working for the CABLE COMPANY!

By bypassing the cable box I inadvertently discovered that the so called HD content that the cable companies wanted to charge extra for... was being scrambled by the cheapo box they give their customers. My parents bought an HD capable digital TV with every wizbang video connector on the back. The HD content that IS FREE OVER THE AIR WAVES was being BLOCKED by the cable box. By hooking directly to the TV the HD single was going through "clean" and unscrambled. Beautiful HD content blazed in the darkened living room of my parents home. We stared in awe as the incredible and horrifying detail of Vanna White's wrinkles and crows feet were displayed in nearly 3D realism!

Then I got confused. You see I don't have cable television. I don't have ANY television in my house. I am a TV addict. I can't be trusted. I work at home. I wouldn't get anything done ever if I had TV. I had to make an awful choice some years ago and cancel my cable subscription. I made this decision when a whole day spun by where I should have been working but I sat down in the morning with my coffee just to watch a little tv before starting the day... and noticed that it was 5 o'clock in the evening and I had sat there all day watching Northern Exposure reruns.

So I am not familiar with cable TV and HD and Digital TV and all that new crap. All I know is that HD signals are free over the airwaves if you have an antenna and a converter and a TV to support it. I just ASSUMED (I'm an ass, you're an ass) that the signal through the digital cable box would be... HD. How stupid of me. Why would the Matrix Cable Company provide a free service without charging for it, when they can charge for it.

I knew my parents wouldn't follow up on this so I called the Cable Company myself to discover the dark and in my opinion disturbing and infuriating truth. They would allow my parents to use their new TV only if they paid an extra $10 a month for a "magic box". I say "magic box" because that is how it was described to me although I knew for fact it was all a bunch of mumbo jumbo intended to confuse people so they would gladly pay $10 a month extra when in reality it is a scam. I meant it. It's a freaking scam.

Here is my conversation with the Cable Company;

Vern the Outraged: "Hello, my parents can't watch HD content on their new HD capable TV."
Cable Supervisor: "Yes, that is correct. They have a "basic box" which isn't "HD Capable."
Vern the Outraged: "Uh... but... when the cable bypasses the box it is HD."
Cable Supervisor: "Yes, but you have to have the box or you can't use the Cable Features."
Vern the Outraged: "But the box 'filters' the HD content. With out the box the signal goes through."
Cable Supervisor: "Yes. That box is an 'ordinary plain box'. It doesn't 'support' HD. Nothing is being 'filtered'."
Vern the Outraged: "Uh... listen... I'm not a moron like your other customers. When a wire goes into a 'box' and the same wire comes out the other side but the signal has been changed then the box is 'filtering' what is going through it. If a coax cable goes in the signal could pass straight through but your 'box' is blocking the signal"
Cable Supervisor: "Uh, yes. That box is not HD capable. It can't unscramble or process the HD signal."
Vern the Outraged: You're missing my point. the box can't process the signal because you built it that way on purpose so you can make more money."
Cable Supervisor: "Well, I don't know. That would be a marketing decision."
Vern the Outraged: "This is ridiculous. The HD signal from the local stations is FREE. With an antenna and this TV my parents can get HD content FREE. They pay you a fee so they get a signal without needing an antenna or possibly a satelite dish? The FREE signal they should be getting through the 'basic box' is filtered. This is wrong. This is just stupid."
Cable Supervisor: "Well. There is a new law taking effect in 2009 that will make it illegal for us to charge for that signal filter."
Vern the Outraged: "Oh I see now. Squeeze as much as you can out of ignorant customers for as long as you can right? You know I checked the internet. There are bunches of cable companies in other states that don't charge for HD content. It comes with standard cable and the 'plain box', but of course my parents only option is you guys because you have a monopoly on this area. Just give them the HD box!"
Cable Supervisor: "Sir? There is nothing I can do."
Vern the Outraged: "sure there is. there is always something you can do."
Cable Supervisor:: "I can't give them a free "HD box". I have no options. My hands are tied. Those decisions are made higher up by the marketing people."
Vern the Outraged: "You have options. Of course you have options. You have more options than my parents do. Just send it. Just don't charge for it. Make an exception. this is ridiculous. You are charging for a signal that is free just because you CAN. It's outrageous. You know my father said he would pay $2 or even $3 for the HD box, but he absolutely won't pay $10 a month just to use his new TV the way it was intended! My father mentioned several times he would like to get "The Dish". It's no wonder the government is investigating cable company's price fixing and rates going up faster than inflation or cost of living..."

At this point I believe the cable guy wanted to get rid of me. I was not giving in. I knew he had it in his power to wave the fee, or do something. I kept pushing. Find a solution.

Cable Supervisor: "Mr. Zehr... Okay... here's what I'll do. $3 a month? Your father would pay $3 a month instead of $10 right? I am giving them a credit on their account for $84. they will still be billed $10 a month on their account but they have a credit for $7 a month for the year. How's that?"
Vern: "Thank you. I knew you could find a solution. You see? That wasn't so hard was it? You did the right thing and I thank you. I'm sure my parents will be thrilled. There are always options."

This conversation was actually very short. I left much out of it though. He was terse. He was mean (before I got mean. I was nice when it started). He was emphatic that NOTHING could be done. He didn't have the power or authority to do anything... it was all "A marketing decision". Ten minutes later he suddenly found the authority. Ten minutes later he blithely gave away $84 which in most likelihood is 60000% profit anyway. Those boxes are bought in bulk. They are probably paid for in the first few months at $10 a month. Everything beyond that is pure profit. If the "plain box" didn't filter the signal this conversation wouldn't have happened at all.

Part 2 of this story is almost as bad. The "cheap" box was sent to them in the mail. The "Magic Box" had to be picked up in person... and only by the account holder. You should have heard me during THAT phone conversation. My father had just gotten out of the hospital a few days ago. I wanted to pick up the box and set it up before he got home. They ABSOLUTELY WOULD NOT ALLOW THIS!

I asked why... oh lord... this was why... I still don't quite understand why this woman thought her explanation wouldn't make someone angry...



It got pretty heated after that and I hung up. I dragged my father to the cable place to pick up his box. Guess what? They didn't check his ID. They didn't ask him anything but his phone number. He signed a receipt and that was it. I could have picked it up... stupid me I had to call first.

I hate the cable company. They are money grubbing monopolies that charge outrageous unjustified fees for services. They hide costs and extra fees in obscure small print and disclaimers. My dad asked how much it would cost to get the DVR feature... I couldn't figure it out from the price list. They probably base the cost on your income. I just don't understand why people put up with it.

One small good thing did come out of this. For a while now I've wanted to switch to cable internet for the speed (I am the "turtle" in the commercials). The problem is I don't want TV. I just want cable. In the past I was always told I would have to pay $10 extra per month since I don't have the basic cable TV hooked up, then they say I should just pay the $13 a month and get the basic cable (13 channels, no HD of course). This to me is nonsense. If they advertise internet at a set price it shouldn't matter if I have TV already hooked up or not. I don't WANT tv... I want INTERNET. They don't charge $10 "extra" for basic cable WITHOUT THE INTERNET.

So, I asked another supervisor at the Cable Company. He promised he would wave that fee and I could get internet service at the same price everyone else who HAS cable hooked "already" gets. I'm not sure I can stomach signing up with these morons... but at least I know I have the option.

Thanks for listening and good night!

-vern

Lucky your parents are moving to the nursing house in two years because the guy just trew a curve at you with his 84$ credit. That trick was played on my once. I was young and this was my first rented apartment. I found relatively cheap for a 4-1/2. I was happy in it. Then next year came the time to renew my rent. The owner raised the rent by 12% while inflation was about 5%. So I called him and he came and we discussed. It turned out he was not that igid and he gave away with much less fight than I expected. He offered me to give me the first month free, or something like that. That got me even with my request and I accepted. I was happy. I won over the owner.

The next year, when came the time to renew the rent again. There were no discussion possible. I already signed a rent, last year with an official rent that included that 12% even though, with the credit, I only had to pay for the equivalent of a 5% raise or so. But that year, he increased the rent by another 5% and I effectively hat to assume an affective 12% raise. This is when I knew I had a nice curve trew at me a year before and I saw nothing.

Since then, I never accepted such an arrangement. I don't accept credits anymore. I want the arrangement written in the contract without the credit trick.

The sad thing is that it isn't just the cable company, it's everyone. My water bill just doubled, and there isn't a thing that I can do about it, and don't get me started on health care. Every year it costs more to cover less. And retail does it with extended warranties and hook-up fees and don't ever use your pin when checking out and don't use your gas card at some pumps since the company "earmarks" an average amount of sixty dollars to your account and if you only have fifty dollars in your account, you'll bounce checks and get overdraft fees even if you didn't spend half your account balance. And overdraft fees! Once I was overdrawn 65 cents which ended up costing me over $100 dollars since they mailed me the notice which took two weeks to get me even thou it was in-town mail.

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread, skimmed through most of it.... and I'm not backing the cable company, but if you have a box that doesn't support 1920x1080, how can you expect it to handle that signal when you get a HD TV? It's just not possible.

Also, "They are money grubbing monopolies " you can choose Direct TV or Dish Network.. so.. it's not like a real monopoly like AT&T You have choices, you just might not like them either.

Of course, if you have a TV with a build in HD turner, you can get the signal for free over the air.. and you can wrestle with over the air signal quality, and hope that all of the HD content is being broadcast from a central location and you don't have to move your antenna to point toward other HD broadcasters.. My point here is, you can use it how it was intended, why should the cable company provide it to you for free?

As for it working without the box, that is because they didn't filter your line.. yeah for you and the TV should handle multiple inputs, so move the cable box over to an svid or composite input and be happy that you get any HD over the cable at all.

And on the DVR question, just don't get it from the cable company. There are plenty of alternative means, including Tivo, MythTV, etc.

Yes it is possible. The TV is HD "capable". The signal coming into the house through the coax from the street was shown on the new TV in HD quality without the cable box. The box was not a factor. They confirmed to me that my parents could use the TV without the box, but then they couldn't order movies or use the channel guide, or view the free on demand stuff that THEY PAY FOR EVERY MONTH. The cheapo cable box does not have to have any special abilities. All it has to do is pass the signal through. The signal was "blocked" by them... in the box.They also recently instituted a new policy that ALL customers MUST HAVE a cable box. For years my parents didn't have or need the digital box at all. Now they HAVE to have one or they can't use the services.

The only channels I was arguing about were the 4 local affiliates, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX. For example without the cable box ABC had an "extra" channel just for HD. That is coming through the local affiliates to the cable company to the customers. this is the signal that would also come over the air for free. Those channels were coming through the same cable without the box. With the box they were blocked... for no reason except the cable company could charge for a much more complicated expensive box with many more features than are needed.

I'm sorry but the box was BLOCKING the signal. There is no other explanation. WIHTOUT THE BOX HD signal goes to the tv... WITH THE BOX no signal. It's the same concept as the 10 year old VCR my parents have. I hook up the VCR between the cable into the house and the cable box. The VCR was built long before anyone HEARD or even thought of "HD" and yet... it magically passes the HD signal straight through to the TV.

The box is blocking the signal. End of story.

I already checked with other cable companies in other states. Many of those include HD with the standard digital signal... at no extra cost. In 2009 cable companies can't charge extra for local HD content. they CAN charge for specialty cable channels like Discover, or The Science channel etc. Those are "cable" channels not network.

The problem is that MY local cable company has "bundled" the local "free" HD content along with the premium content. The only way you could get the "free" stuff was to get a different package that cost more... a cost that the cable company creates. They "throw in" what should be part of the standard package into a more expensive package. You are FORCED to buy MORE than you want or need.



well yeah, satellite, direct tv have their own issues, like not allowing local stations to be seen without getting waivers from the networks blah blah.. It is a totally different technical system. Theoretically it might be considered "competition" but it isn't like another CABLE company offering competing services and programs. THAT'S competition.

The government really IS investigating the cable companies. the price of cable has risen dramatically over the years, much higher than inflation with absolutely no real benefits to the customer for that price. Also the rates for cable go up UNIVERSALLY across the country at the same time and the same amount. Competing cable companies who compete for the same market raise the price at the same time to the same amount. They are being investigated for price fixing.



Once again... THAT IS WHY YOU PAY THE CABLE COMPANY. You pay them a monthly fee to deliver the signal that would otherwise be difficult to pick up. They want to charge TWICE. Pay for the service that is INTENTIONALLY hobbled and pay again to get the "clean" unblocked signal.

I think programming is going to just end up on the internet anyway. I watch TV on the internet for free. I go to ABC.com or NBC or CBS and watch only the shows I want to watch when I want to watch them. (Funny thing, they offer FREE HD programming on the internet. The same content the cable company wanted to charge $10 a month extra for.) It's enough of a hassle that I can't sit there for hours flipping channels so it works for me. Eventually the cable company will offer internet access and we can just download what we want to watch.


p.s. Yves, don't worry about that credit being some kind of "trick". After 2009 that extra charge would be gone anyway and my parents are moving to VA soon after that. I keep trying to get them to stop watching so much TV. I told them to just cancel the dang cable and read a book... or write one... but you know how it is. That monkey on your back.

-vern

One of the many reasons we don't watch TV.
Ever.
To pay for attitude like that - ridiculous. And then, they still have commercials - on "premium" channels. Forget it.
My time is too precious.
Glad you triumphed!!!

Vern,

Does the TV have dual tuners? Bring the cable into a signal splitter. Send one half to the tuner box and into input 1 on the TV. Then they get all the features. Send the second cable directly to tuner input 2. They get HD. That's how I dealt with my TV without paying the cable company even more than I currently do.

-Doug

Im another one who has NO cable, Sat or Antenna. We have a lg screen tv but its for watching DVDs, or content I get from the net and burn to disk ie: youtube to divx or DVD.

It has like 6! It has 2 "AV" connectors, a coax, 2 HDMI and one YPbPr component video connector.

Right now I have the TV signal going through HDMI which is the best quality from the box (but not required to get HD). I plan to hook the DVD player to the component video but have to buy a cable. I can try that idea of yours by splitting the cable signal, run it through the VCR so they can tape their shows and using the TVs coax input.


-vern

Agreed, but not necessarily by design! Does your VCR have any kind of "smart" logic in it to be able to communicate over the input?


Actually, your not forced to buy anything.


Well, a monopoly means you don't have a choice. There are many video content providers to choose from.. again, you might not like the choices, but you have them.



I'm not disagreeing that it's a racket/rip off/etc.. don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to explain that not all technology is designed to screw you. Only, if the technical specs on a chipset used inside a cable box shows that the chipset is capable of 1920x1080i will I agree that they are intentionally blocking the HD signal so that you have to pay for it. And if that was the case, why would you need a new box, why wouldn't they just "turn it on" in the current box? But, I doubt they put that kind of quality into a low quality product that needs to produce 704x480 or lower. You can't compare a VCR to a digital cable box.. It's analog vs digital.



I wouldn't know, I live in Chicago, if I wanted to watch OTA stuff, I would. I pay for cable to get channels that aren't broadcast OTA. I think the superbowl is a great example. I didn't watch the superbowl this year because it wasn't OTA to me because it was on FOX and if I can't watch it in HD, it's not worth watching (referring to sporting events). Your paying them as a content provider. That is all they do.



Yup, it already is. There are a few video content providers that are internet based. And if you wanted to, you could hang a slingbox off of your parents cable and watch whatever you wanted for *free* at your house on your computer.

And, as I mentioned before, and Doug mentioned as well, there is no reason for you to upgrade anything. Like you said, your TV has a ton of inputs, make one HD, one Cable, One DVD, etc.

Dude! when i read this the VERY first thing that came to mind was COMCAST! My mom has to put up with them ALL the time!

we want to get direct tv but we live in an apartment....with trees...

But dude guess what, if you have a tv that supports DTV you can pickup HD stations! i have that for my tv with the regular cable box, the living room tv can't pickup HD but my tv can since we use a splitter!(to get past the charge per room thing) the digital cable that goes through the box doesn't show hd, but my tv(with DTV) can pick up those stations and HD ones! just no On Demand...but i do get the little video at the top . i even get all those music stations(which i skipped cause i don't care).

oh and 3 movie stations ...if my tv supported it, i might be able to get more! heck i get stations i've never seen before! like some station that looks like someones computer screen O_o....

Yup, it really all depends on how lazy your installer is or how organized the building install is. Being in an apartment, they probably don't know which line is yours, or the lines are split in a way they can't block those signals to your apt. I had this happen when I was in an apt for a while, twice they came by trying to get me to purchase services I was getting for free stating that because I'm getting them, I should pay for them. I told them to turn the services off. Of course, it never happened because they couldn't.

yeah that could be why i'm getting those channels on my room tv. the box blocks it but the cable doesn't . my sister just moved out into an apartment and got her self a nice new tv, it has dtv too so she said she might do the same thing .