Well with a lot of David's help I've got my model all rigged and cp weighted using the squetch rig(the 9_8_07 version). I used the bones for the face as well. Now I'm trying to setup the FACE interface after viewing Marks tutorials it looks easy(using muscle mode that is). I'm not having much luck with the bones version. Are there specific "control" bones? I'm really having trouble trying to "copy keyframe" and "paste mirrored" I can get it to work if I select the bones but when I paste mirrored in the opposite pose it changes the slider value to 0%... any advice?

It's different when you're using the bones setup, Steve. The lips are moved using the "mouth_ud" and "mouth_lr" Pose sliders, they are in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_ud_individual" and "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_lr_individual" folders. You will probably have to edit the Poses to get the range of movement for your specific character (that changed with the version after the one you are installing...it's easier now).

I don't use "copy/paste mirrored" much with the bones rig...what I do is use an Action to work out what something like a smile should look like, then I just split the Pose manually using the slider percentages (dividing the center number in half, 75% on the side of the Pose and 25% on the side opposite of the Pose).

The eyebrow bones don't have Pose sliders, they get moved manually. For those, it is similar to the mouth...I work out what both eyebrows up (or whatever) should look like, then I divide the percentages like for the mouth Poses for each side.

For the lip curling, I adjust the weighting between the "lip_geom" and "lip_roll_geom" bones so that I can manually grab the "roll" bones and use them as handles to roll the lips in and out for the lip curling Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls" folder. Then, I use those Poses to set up other FACE Poses.

So, build the smaller Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls" folder, then use those to build the FACE Poses. The last two versions of the rig includes a "face_setup_11_12_2007.act" that runs the bones rig through a set of Poses to aid in setup...there were quite a few changes in the bones setup in the version after the one you're using, so that Action might not be as helpful.

Squetchy Sam is a good guide for how things should be set up...use the Squetchy Sam for the release you are installing because that will match what you've got.

If you run into any problems, post, PM or e-mail.

"what I do is use an Action to work out what something like a smile should look like, then I just split the Pose manually using the slider percentages (dividing the center number in half, 75% on the side of the Pose and 25% on the side opposite of the Pose). "

Not sure I get this....Do you use the lip target (nulls) for anything? Can I manually move the cheeks?
Thanks David

Yes, you can manually move the cheeks...on the version you have, just translate the "cheek_left_geom" and "cheek_right_geom" (it's a Pose slider in the latest version). If you check the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Upper Face Poses/LeftSquint" and "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Upper Face Poses/RightSquint" Poses in Squetchy Sam you'll see that's what I translated.

The lip targets are for the lip "geom" bones to translate to...that's all they are for, that way the scaling of the mouth bones doesn't scale the lip "geom" bones when the lips are moved in/out.

To set up the face, you first have to have your base controls working like you want (this process is different on the latest version, you shouldn't have to dig into Poses now). First, you'll have to edit the Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_ud_individual" folder so that they have the range of up/down movement you want. Then, you'll have to edit the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_lr_individual" Poses to get the left/right movement you want. Once those are to your liking, you'll have to set the limits for everything in the nose (nostril base, nostril, nose main, etc) and set the percentages on the "aim at", "translate to" and "orient like" constraints in the nose Poses....they should be in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/head_on/off_constraints/nose_targeting" Pose. Then, adjust the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/head_on/off_constraints/cheek_constraints", "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/head_on/off_constraints/ear_constraints" and "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/head_on/off_constraints/jowl_constraints" to get the movement you want for those parts of the face when the lips move.

Then, use the lip "roll" bones (and muscle movement if necessary) to make the lip curling Poses located in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips" folder.

Once that is done, you should be able to start making the FACE Poses.

For something like the "RightSmileWide" and "LeftSmileWide" Poses, I use a separate Action to figure out what I need to make them. I open a new Action and move the lip Pose sliders until I get what I want for a complete smile. Then, I split the Pose into left and right versions by using the percentages for the full smile. For the center, the sliders for each side will be 50% of the full smile, for the "RightSmileWide" the first section of the lips that is right of center will have 75% of the full smile values and the first section of the left side will have 25% of the full smile values...the far right side will have 100% and the far left side will have 0%. Then do the same thing for the "LeftSmileWide", reversing the values.

The present method (which is for the rigs after the one you have installed) is located here...it's different, but it might help you if my explanation thus far hasn't.

Hope that helps, Steve. After the next rig update, I'm going to try to do an updated installation tutorial.

Thanks David that helps alot! As I dig deeper into Sam I'm figuring out a lot also