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robcat2075
We're looking for someone to create a newspaper template that will contain a series of still photos in part of the "We're Off, We're Gone" song sequence.

Someone who has done some page layout and can create a big targa of the finished thing would be ideal.

Let me know if you are interested and I'll give you details.
higginsdj
I've got plenty of time and resources (3 weeks off work) - just need some solid directing.

Cheers
robcat2075
Brainlock PM'd me also on this.

How about both of you take a look at this and see who's more into it?

NewspaperPitchMP4.mov
higginsdj
How is this for the papers banner?
robcat2075
QUOTE(higginsdj @ Dec 29 2007, 01:16 AM) *
How is this for the papers banner?


Pretty Good.

I just realized it's Variety I was thinking of, not Hollywood Reporter ohmy.gif

I'll never work in this town again.
BrainLock
Ideas are percolating... but my enthusiasm often goes beyond my skills.

first, FWIW, the design of The Hollywood Reporter is rather different from what you are asking for. At least, according to several sample covers I viewed online tonight. I wonder if there is another paper you had in mind.

You are asking for an (extra long) broadsheet with large display photos. The Hollywood Reporter is printed in a tabloid shape and most of its photos are small - most were no more than half-column "thumbnail" mugshots. Even the display photos aren't particularly "displayed."

The headline writing is rather punchy and alliterative, as you pointed out.

Regardless, I wonder if it might be more exciting and interesting for the audience if you take a slightly different tack in the same vein.

Instead of scrolling or panning down one long newspaper page, the energy and visual interest could be increased by using the old-timey technique of flashing up a lot of different newspaper and magazine covers. The paper spins in a blur from a distance and zooms up to the viewer's face, where it freezes, filling most of the frame with the blaring headline and giant photo. Music could punctuate the freeze-frame.

It's a bit of a cliche, but it would have a lot of "umph" and "look at me!" energy. What do you think? Would the spinning effect be hard to do?

Some of the titles could be made up, others could be parodies of real publications and the headlines might reflect their different takes.

Some title ideas off the top of my head:
The Winkie Reporter, The New Winkie Times, Oz Today, The Emerald City Post, The Emerald City Times, The Winkie Bee, The Winkie Morning News, The Oz Observer, Winkie (in a font like People magazine), Munchkinlander, The Gillikin Gazette, The Quadling Country Star, The Oz Enquirer, OzWeek (like Newsweek), The Oz Daily News. Maybe one could be an in-joke - 3D Oz World...

Of course, making all those covers, especially in parody style, would be more work than just laying out and designing a single page front. To ease some of the work, the newspaper broadsheet covers could be limited to the part that's "above the fold."

How many photos are you planning? And critical: What are the deadlines?
higginsdj
I like Brainlocks suggestions. I don't think we can use Variety without running into problems and nothing catchy along a similar vain comes to mind (Diversity?).
BrainLock
Very nice job on the nameplate, David. One component done! (Pending approval, of course)

QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Dec 29 2007, 02:21 AM) *
I just realized it's Variety I was thinking of, not Hollywood Reporter


I took so long to write my reply that we crossed in the night...

There would be copyright or trademark issues to use "Daily Variety." Unfortunately, the name so far isn't lending itself to good "close enough to parody or tribute" ideas.
largento
Well, the reference would be very obscure, but prior to writing the Oz stories, L. Frank Baum published a newspaper called the Saturday Pioneer. Might be a neat nod to him to use that or a variation on it.
higginsdj
That title would certainly fit with the theme of an impending trip!
robcat2075
"The Oz Reporter" looks fine.
I dont' think we'll infringe anyone with that.

QUOTE(BrainLock @ Dec 29 2007, 02:05 AM) *
You are asking for an (extra long) broadsheet with large display photos. The Hollywood Reporter is printed in a tabloid shape and most of its photos are small - most were no more than half-column "thumbnail" mugshots. Even the display photos aren't particularly "displayed."


We just need to suggest a Show-biz-ish newspaper. To that end we borrow the stylistic elelments that serve our purpose and modify the others.

The audience never sees the entire page at once. Their first view is just what might be the top half of a normal page. The fact that the camera then pans farther and farther down an impossibly long page is a small gag in itself.

(It's a bit like the Busby Berkly musicals where the camera follows the dancers into a stage that is impossibly larger and longer than what they started with.)

QUOTE
Instead of scrolling or panning down one long newspaper page, the energy and visual interest could be increased by using the old-timey technique of flashing up a lot of different newspaper and magazine covers. The paper spins in a blur from a distance and zooms up to the viewer's face, where it freezes, filling most of the frame with the blaring headline and giant photo. Music could punctuate the freeze-frame.

It's a bit of a cliche, but it would have a lot of "umph" and "look at me!" energy. What do you think? Would the spinning effect be hard to do?


This whole shot is only ~8 seconds long. Spins take too much screen time (and also a series of them implies the passage of a substantial amount of time). Quick moves down one page is really all we have time to do and implies coverage of one event.

QUOTE
How many photos are you planning? And critical: What are the deadlines?
I forget how many but I showed them all in the pitch.
higginsdj
Do you want a newsprint texture on the paper or smooth white paper? (off white like newsprint)

Cheers
robcat2075
hmmm... glossy would be more showbiz...

is it possible to make it glossy and still make it look like paper?
BrainLock
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Dec 29 2007, 11:55 PM) *
QUOTE
How many photos are you planning? And critical: What are the deadlines?
I forget how many but I showed them all in the pitch.


In the pitch you showed four and said there are more. You never said a total. Shot 2-01-66 has five. Your your pitch references a sixth (the one that animates at the end) and implies there will be others.

With the panning and the time needed for the audience to read the headlines, what should be the maximum? Six? Eight?

I've started to mock up some ideas for the page layout using David's banner/flag. I hope to have them posted here later today.
BrainLock
David, could you make the "Oz" in your banner green? Green because the capital of The Land of Oz is Emerald City.


higginsdj
How's this.

Cheers
BrainLock
Looks great! It's on the mock-up. I'll need a higher-res version for the final product. What formats can you send it in? The best options for me may be tiff, eps or png. I can PM you an email address.
BrainLock
I've got a prototype done. It still needs some tweaking.

Mostly I used screen caps from the WIP animation videos. I'm assuming you'll want to sub in high-res renderings. I'll need those. I'll also need to get the banner in high-res.

All the images for now are in color. I can convert them later, although I kind of like the color. Maybe we can adjust the look, maybe desaturate or something, to make it clear that these are photos, not the "real action," instead of going black-and-white.

This is a large JPEG. I've also got options to output to PDF, TIFF and EPS. I'm seeking a solution for TARGA/TGA.

On the Easter Egg front, there's a number of references to the Wizard of Oz literature, plus for the TWO team and Animation:Master.

Click to view attachment
Dhar
That is some great work. I actually read that paper. So many interesting news and views. Well done guys.
higginsdj
Thats brilliant - BUT - it's missing the primary image - the first one f Tinman knocking Scarecrow over. I think you need to add another layer above the first image set to incorporate this image (it is the transition from the scene into the paper after all).

Cheers
BrainLock
grrr. . you're right. When I did the screen grabs from the sequence Rob mentioned (2-01-66), I didn't notice that that the knock-down image was absent. Instead, it starts with a freeze-frame of Scarecrow holding his nose afterward.

I'll get back on it tomorrow. Time to celebrate the New Year.


NancyGormezano
Thats fabulous! Loved reading it.
robcat2075
I love it! That looks excellent! I can see the camera moving around that. We'll figure out a way to fit the missing pic in.

(re: caption under main photo... he's holding his nose because it got whacked. Maybe we need to adjust that pose to say suggest that better)

My goal is that the pics look like paparazzi photos with heavy flash foreground and darkish backgrounds. Anyone interested in lighting/rendering those like that?
BrainLock
Thanks Nancy. It was fun to make.

David and Rob: I found and subbed in a knock-down freeze-frame image.

The blurriness I assume will be handled when we get a high-res render. I'm hopeful that when another render is made, the camera will be panned down further so that Woot and the Woodman's feet aren't cut off. There's a lot of dead space at the top of he photo.

Also, in the pitch in this thread, Rob specified using a different frame. It's the one right when the Woodman's arm hits the Scarecrow's face. The problem with that frame is that we can't see Woot's face. His head is bent down and his face is totally hidden by his hat.

The frame I grabbed, Rob specified in another thread, has nice poses of Woot and Woodman, but Scarecrow is so many frames past the one where he gets knocked in the head that he's almost horizontal with the ground. I hope it's OK.

Click to view attachment
BrainLock
ack.. more criss-crossing in the Internet ether!

Dhar, thank you, too!

Rob, glad you like it!

re: the photo I took out (of the nose holding)... I wonder if we need to put it back in. The page is already pretty full and you only have 8 seconds. The audience saw Woodman hit the Scarecrow just a moment before and then saw Scarecrow in mid-fall in the lead photo... We've already given them the gag and a punchline. They should be smart enough to know Scarecrow's a little banged up and annoyed.

If we put it back, we ought to crop in tight on Scarecrow (completely crop out the waving Woodman). If we keep the Woodman, we lose focus on Scarecrow. We also already display two other photos in which Woodman is in very similar positioning/poses. Do we need three of the Woodman standing 3/4 to the camera? I struggled a bit with them before because the photos were so similar/repetitive.

EDIT: Another idea... keep the holding-nose photo (with fixed caption) instead of the freeze-frame. Using both images (knock down then holding nose) slightly slows the pace. The audience saw him get knocked down. The photo of him holding his nose, maybe a bit tighter, but still enough to see Tinman waving, is a punchline. Go from white-out of the camera flash to fade in on the front page.
robcat2075
Go celebrate the New Year! we'll figure it out in '08.
Jeetman
WOW first I see of this and MAN it is awesome! I read most of the articles.

The pic poses look great in the paper. I do want to point out that I do not deserve the credit for the main nose whack pic. Holmes Bryant created that one.

This came out EXCELLENT!!!


George
robcat2075
Yeah, I think we may have to to drop the scarecrow-holding-his-nose shot.

So that gives us 6 photos on the front page.

How about these slight changes on the article headings...

"Winkies wonder, will Woodman weturn?"

"Skittish Scarecrow gives scoop"

heyvern
It looks great!

However (fancy "but") and please ignore the ramblings of this nit picker if you choose...

The word spacing is horrendous, especially when the image is "close up". The first thing that made me feel "this isn't a 'real' newspaper" was the strange word spacing gaps. Some of them line up in strange patterns. It felt like it needs to be tightened up, maybe a smaller font size or wider columns. If this were a "real" newspaper, space is at a premium. They jam that text in there to fill as much space as possible. When you see "fake" newspapers like that from a distance the text should be almost like a "gray texture".

If you are using a page layout application to do the layout you can set the minimum word spacing so those huge spaces don't happen so much.

Just a small tiny nit pick.

-vern
higginsdj
The shot isn't going to give people time to read the newspaper (unless they are speed readers).

Cheers
heyvern
QUOTE(higginsdj @ Jan 2 2008, 06:44 PM) *
The shot isn't going to give people time to read the newspaper (unless they are speed readers).

Cheers


That's my point really. The word spacing is too big, if it isn't up long enough to read then the text doesn't have to even make sense it could just be filler. Make the font slightly smaller to reduce the word spacing on the perfect justification. The overall effect doesn't "look right". The text isn't "dense" enough in my opinion.

Like I said... this is a nit pick. I am just trying to give some feed back so it can be more convincing.

p.s. Rent the DVD "Castway". At the end when the Tom Hanks character meets with his old girlfriend there are bunches of newspapers and magazines with "phony" articles about his rescue on the table. If you freeze the frame it is AMAZING how perfect they are. A small detail only seen for a split second but a lot of work went into it.

-vern
robcat2075
presuming the general arrangement is one we like...

I imagine the way to do this is make the all the non-photo elements one decal and all the photos separate decals so we can swap in new renderings later and so that some of them can be animated targa sequences.

Is that the way this is built?
BrainLock
QUOTE(robcat2075 @ Jan 2 2008, 01:45 PM) *
Yeah, I think we may have to to drop the scarecrow-holding-his-nose shot.

So that gives us 6 photos on the front page.

How about these slight changes on the article headings...

"Winkies wonder, will Woodman weturn?"

"Skittish Scarecrow gives scoop"


Re: "Winkies wonder, will Woodman weturn" - I was playing with that idea (minus the "w" on "return." But with so many longish words, the headline was going to 5 decks. That's usually too much. I was trying to hold it to 4. Maybe I can make it work.

Re: "weturn" vs "return" - If the new hed comes in with four "W" words in a row before "return," I suspect many people will unconsciously say or think "weturn"

re: "Skittish Scarecrow gives scoop" - That could work but that makes the hed a lot shorter. I'll need to bump up the point size and probably have to reduce the size of the photos below to compensate. Otherwise there will be a lot of unnatural white space because each deck of the hed will be very short. Each deck is already a little short as it is. Maybe it would instead work as
Skittish Scarecrow gives
scandal-filled scoop

but the second deck is still a bit too short.


Answering other people's points:

- I didn't do a whole lot with the body type other than set it in 10-point Times. I have ways to tighten the kerning. I'll play with it.

- The "photo credits" were my best guesses on who animated the individual scenes. Send PMs with corrections or post them here.

- The text of the "articles" is from the original book, The Tin Woodman of Oz, published on May 13, 1918. The book is said to have revived L. Frank Baum's then flagging literary career and the Oz series. It's the 14th book in the series (therefore this paper is Vol. XIV, No. 14).

I'm a little jammed up until Saturday, so the updates probably won't be ready until then or Sunday.
robcat2075
QUOTE(BrainLock @ Jan 2 2008, 10:34 PM) *
Re: "weturn" vs "return" - If the new hed comes in with four "W" words in a row before "return," I suspect many people will unconsciously say or think "weturn"

The camera won't linger on it, it would be cute.

or how about "wee-turn"

QUOTE
re: "Skittish Scarecrow gives scoop" - That could work but that makes the hed a lot shorter. I'll need to bump up the point size and probably have to reduce the size of the photos below to compensate. Otherwise there will be a lot of unnatural white space because each deck of the hed will be very short. Each deck is already a little short as it is. Maybe it would instead work as
Skittish Scarecrow gives
scandal-filled scoop

but the second deck is still a bit too short.


Skittish Scarecrow's Scandalous Scoop

Skittish Scarecrow's Skankified Scoop


QUOTE
- The "photo credits" were my best guesses on who animated the individual scenes. Send PMs with corrections or post them here.
Only one that is off is the top which is by Holmes Bryant.
robcat2075
I've committed a version of 2_01_65 that has the poses plussed at 08:17 for use in the still image. When we go to render these stills we'll need to remember to use "2_01_65FlashposeAt0817.cho" for that one frame.

Click to view attachment



we also need to find someone who can monkey with the stills to get a newspaperish appearance. I duotoned this one but it isn't quite what I'm looking for:

Click to view attachment

higginsdj
How about an old fashioned Newspaper Print look?

Cheers
robcat2075
QUOTE(higginsdj @ Jan 3 2008, 09:47 PM) *
How about an old fashioned Newspaper Print look?


I like that better than the half-tone dots my Photoshop does. What's that called?

I wonder if that will cause any weird artifacts as we move over it with the cam?
higginsdj
Thats photoshop colour half tone filter. Trick is to increase the contrast, increase the image size (4200 on the long) apply the filter, then reduce the image size back to normal.

We'd ghave to trial and error it for the camera. As far as I am aware the artifacts and crawlies were created by procedural textures rather than decals.

Cheers
robcat2075
Here's the next step in this newspaper thing. This is probably for Paul since David is busy on the parade set

NewspaperPitchBMP4.mov

I wasn't real specific about the timing of the zooms, pauses and pans. We'll have to experiment. Once you get the various positions set up it should be a simple matter of trying things by sliding keyframes around.
BrainLock
I will start at it tomorrow (Sunday). Also, Rob, look for a PM from me. I'll need some guidance.
higginsdj
Good job you reminded me Robert - I'd forgotten about it after the 'M' incident. I've been having problems trying to load TWO projects but think I'm back to normal now. I have made a new version of the temp road and increased the patch count and then extended the size of it. The road is bigger than the Winkie Village set (that'll team me to try to judge it by eye) so I will just build a whole new set as advised by Mark.

Some advice welcome re decalling. Should I just take 'patches' from the existing Winkie Landscape and paint/tile a new decal?

Cheers
robcat2075
QUOTE(BrainLock @ Jan 5 2008, 07:00 PM) *
I will start at it tomorrow (Sunday). Also, Rob, look for a PM from me. I'll need some guidance.

I'm on Skype too, presuming we're both awake at the same time.


QUOTE(higginsdj @ Jan 5 2008, 07:33 PM) *
I have made a new version of the temp road and increased the patch count and then extended the size of it. The road is bigger than the Winkie Village set (that'll team me to try to judge it by eye) so I will just build a whole new set as advised by Mark.


I hope you just mean a new ground surface. The buildings and trees and stuff are reusable, right?

QUOTE
Some advice welcome re decalling. Should I just take 'patches' from the existing Winkie Landscape and paint/tile a new decal?

hmmm... decaling isn't my field of expertise I dont' know the tradeoff between either plan.



higginsdj
Yes, just the ground - all else is re-usable.
higginsdj
Just added skype to my iMac and I have you on my contact list. (God help anyone who has video blink.gif )

Cheers
PF_Mark
This is my attempt at David way
PF_Mark
Ok 1st was setting of 4

this is 8
PF_Mark
this is 6
PF_Mark
this is with 8 but now I set camera angles to zero this lines up the pixel dots in rows/column what do you think?
higginsdj
A different image but here is what I get with my procedure. Mark is pretty much getting the same result I am....

Cheers
robcat2075
The pattern looks so much different than what David had in post 36. blink.gif


I guess the technique is lost to the ages now.


MArk, lets render one frame with the treated B&W decal and one with the untreated B&W decal and lets see which looks better. The effect may be too small to survive being rephotographed anyway. But lets see.

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