Design by John Neill

Designed by Robert (Kel) Kelley.

Disney version.

ooooo, I like Robert Kelly's version.

I did some quick sketches for different styles of Trot, that might hint at personality traits. Might be good to identify her quirks, & age as well.

I'm pulling the character descriptions out of the script and putting them in the appropriate threads.

I compiled my own list when reading the original:

I had missed this background on Trot. Very interesting.
I recall reading a little about the disappearance of Trot's dad in 'Sky Castle'. I haven't read the 'Sea Mermaids' but that might also give some good insight into Trot and Capn Bill.

I'm not sure if its known what Baum's background on Trot was beyond what is revealed in these three books but it'd make a great story itself. It probably has been explored in the additional books written over the years.

While I don't think its necessary in this movie there is a great article on how Baum used known locations near San Diego (I think I recall correctly here) as locations for his characters to adventure in.

I do think it might be wise to do some contrast/comparison of Trot design against Woot as I'm sure they are bound to meet someday.

Ooooooo....a demon child who takes up learning how to cast spells under the tutelage of the witch. Which witch? there are so many.

And maybe Trot & Woot get married someday? or at least live together? After she's learned how to concoct love potions, of course. Out of Ork entrails.

(I have been under house arrest waayyyy tooo long)

Awwww Nancy, fairies can be nice too. Tinkerbell was a fairy after all. I like to think of Trot as having been blessed, not so much as having made a pact with the devil

oh poo. Boring. It's been soooo done already.

(Yes the ankle bracelet is weighing down me brain)

How 'bout if we include the pact-with-the-devil thing in an upcoming cartoon with a deep south Delta Blues theme.
Capt'n Bill is an old voodoo doctor who plays blues guitar and Trot is a young cotton picker with a dream to make it big in New York?

I'm in!

I think Baby sweet Trot captures the character of Trot best out of those Nancy. Though abit older version of her perhaps.

Go with these clothes and start with Tin Girl.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?act=a...st&id=33385

huh? Tin Girl's face is too old I believe. Her face or even better Nimmies face would work for Gloria but not for Trot. Woot's face with refinement would be better for a young girl.

I was preferring Shy timid Trot or Wise no nonesense Trot

Both of those have sailor suit type outfits. Shy Timid has the outfit more similar to Neill's drawing, tho I think the no nonesense one would be easier - I think it would be cute to give her round glasses to look more intellectual as in wise, no nonesense version. Both of those would work with Captn Bill.

Shall I do a face? (I thought I was doing Trot, but I was intending to refine Gloria version first)

I disagree: Tin Girl's face is rounder, with larger eyes, and can easily be "youthened." I think Gloria would morph better from Nimmie Amee's face because her face is long - like the Christensen women.

There's going to be several townspeople and courtiers so if I'm wrong, this modeling will not go to waste if we change course. Along those same lines, a Nimmie-based woman (with extravagant Christensen clothes) wouldn't be a waste of modeling either.

Not sure I'm understanding you correctly. I too believe GLORIA would morph better from Nimmie who has an exquisite face. (don't get the part about townspeople, and changing course)

But as for TROT I think it might be easier to start with Woot who already looks like a young child (but may be too realistic to be compatible with captn bill). Ears can be made smaller, a little tweaking of proportions (not really necessary), hair added, and bam. Woot has large eyes, rounded cheeks.

Tingirl does have a lovely female face - but obviously she's been modeled quite strangely for a human (angular, nose, jaw). Not saying she can't be used - but I'm thinking that Trot should NOT be a looker-babe.

I'm thinking that for young girls to identify with her, that she should have some minor imperfections - such as glasses, slight physical awkwardness, personality tics. But she should definitely be seen as competent.

How old do you want Trot to be?

Do you want me to develop the shy, timid one further for hair and face? (that seems to be closest to O'neill) or wise no nonesense? or something else more stylistic? or to drop it?

I'm working on "Blue Fairying" Tingirl. Nimmie probably would have been a better starting point but I'm well into it now. She's looking quite human....actually I'll post a screenshot. I do agree, that she's probably too babe like/old for Trot....but maybe Gloria. The femanine parts will come in handy no matter what's decided.

Do some Woot-derived & Nimmie-derived heads too. Let's see what we got.

Here's the finished conversion. Those are massive eyes!
Nimmie (by design) is very similar to Tingirl, so she would probably yield similar results. (And she's already human and feminine) I'll start feminizing woot now though.

Unearthly. (Ozly?)

Yeah...no hair adds to the effect. Though let's not forget that Trot and Bill aren't from Oz.

This is as feminine as I can get woot. Still abit unisex but maybe hair and brows would complete the transformation.

Post the meshes. Does anyone here think they can feminize these faces?

Here's the girls...

I don't know why I bother

Here's your $1.99 As-u-wait 30 minute Las Vegas special drive up sex change,

Girly Woot - no change to face - just longer lashes, longer hair, longer dress, shorter fingers

Great! Job done. Good work.

Wow. She looks great! (Too bad we can't get Teresa to voice her! )

Are the upper arms going to be problematic.
They were a little short in the Woot model.

Woot's ears were a little bit elfen too right?

Looks great. I think if you raise the cheeks a little, SheWoot will look more femanine.

Cheers

Am I missing something here.....I'm hoping the woot female model is a gag to say hey this is what we can get if we don't try very hard. And all the following replies are sarcastic acknowledgements/playing along with the gag.

I mean we're not seriously thinking of using the same woot model in the leading role of two movies....um....right?

Why not, Ratatoullie used the Incredibles designs! Actors play in multple movies! I can't see why animated charatcers can't fit the same mould and get away with it!

Yeah, but it just looks like woot in drag. I think it's lazy. We should use a whole new design. It's not like we're short of them. And he/she is going to clash in style when placed alongside Bill.

All characters should fit into the same basic 'reality' so modifying models from TWO seems like a reasonable thing to do.
I agree that Woottrot should be modified more, given new warddrobe and fine tuned into a 'new' character.
Nancy has taken the initial step toward that.
Next she'll be Trotwoot... and then finally she'll be Trot.

One of the things I like most about the model when I first saw it was how it immediately looked like it belonged in the same world of Oz as the characters from TWO. Of course it did... it was based on the same models.

Little things can make a big difference too.
Changing the boots and making her feet a bit smaller for instance.
The texturing and general warddrobe can reflect the earlier designs.

If the model can be uploaded we can all look at it more closely.

Disclaimer: If this is a joke then I'm just along for the ride.

Perhaps we can adjust her to get her more 'on model'?

Using Woot (or TinGirl or Nimmie) for Trot was not my idea. Martin doesn't trust me to come up with a good face. Or a good Trot. None of the 10 sketches were acceptable to him to start a discussion. YIKERS, I should probably find another job..er...hobby.

However, until then, my thoughts are:

If Captn Bill is stylized, then Trot should be stylized. If Trot is not stylized then Captn Bill should not be stylized. (Uh-oh, Watch out KuKlip !!!)

Are we all agreed on that? Probably not

However Trot looks like Woot in drag? Funny thing, I always thought Woot looked like a really cute Gurly boy. My goodness, he sure sounds like one.

Until puberty, and especially for young children, it is very difficult to tell the gender without seeing clothes & hair (see first image)

In art/ illustration, girl faces are usually differentiated from boys by the addition of eyelashes and hair. Boys can be drawn with more angular lines. BUT We are soooo lucky that Woot was created with such a nice round girly face. All he needs are eyelashes and hair. And if you insist, we can shorten the space between his nose and mouth so he doesn't look so monkeyish. And of course those long monkey fingers, monkey arms have to be shortened. And the ears can be made smaller.

And we can always make the dress really really really really REALLY gurly. The example I post is just that - an example - don't take it as gospel. The dress design discussion has just begun. I know you're all eager to debate fabrics, color, styling, detailing, buttons, bows, lace, hair styles, hat styles, shoe styles, tight colors, undies. Oh what fun!

[/serious mode on]It is my opinion that the Trotsky character design should be seen as competent & wise for her age, or develops those characteristics when the pucky hits the fan. That's usually SOP in children's books and film for the "heros". [/serious mode off]

But since I haven't read the script recently, she might have lines that are more befitting a mini, super ditz Paris Hilton look alike by now.

So plaid gurly boy? pink gurly boy or brown gurly boy? (or is it dikey gurl? - can't tell)

What to do? What to do?

Do we have a winner yet? No ?

Opinions?

If no one stops me - there's bound to be a Tammy Faye Trot, Goth Trot, Biker Chick Trot in the making.

(Is it any wonder I can't be trusted ?)

I prefer Trot to be much more like a Tom Boy, like in Kelly's drawings. She would be a nice counter point to Gloria, who is a girly girl.
Long gangly legs, shortish unkempt hair, broadly striped stockings, and something resembling the equivalent of tennis shoes.
All the Woot examples look too short, or forced or girly or cutesy or ..... something.

If we are really using Woots mesh, then the patches could be halved. I have a version that looks the same.

But I still strongly think we shouldn't. If only for variety.....who wants to look at a similar model to woot for another twoish years? Scarecrow and Tinman are enough.

made his/her lips more heart shaped.

Interesting.

Martin wants O'Neills bonnet and long dress because the script calls for it. Thought my faces were indistinct. Doesn't want Trot (or Gloria) to end up looking like a minion

Holmes thinks WootTrot looks too girly. Wants a Tom Girl and wants Kelly's design with indistinct face. Wants longer ganglier legs - older girl. No change to Kel's. Holmes is not to be trusted. Is obviously biased. Will not like anything I come with, unless it looks exactly like Kel's.

Ken thinks WootTrot looks like Woot in Drag - too boyish. Originally suggested Baby Sweet trot - younger girl. Wants a whole new model.

Higgins & Rodney thought WootTrot looked good, needed to be more feminized. Higgins wants to reuse Woot.

Nancy wants a competent intelligent wise Trot, slightly awkward, so that young girls can identify with her. I don't count. What would I know?

Gimme a sec. Lemme see what kind of monster I can come up with to meet all those requirements.

Hmmmmm....thinking....thinking....lI KNOW!!! I know!!!

TROT SHOULD BE A BOY!!! Of course. Duh. Problem solved.

(I will also do a sketch of monster Trot - gimme a sec)

Is that the "face shortened not to look like a monkey" Woot?

Since Trot is going to take off her bonnet and shorten her dress to make the swing, we can use that opportunity to present Nancy's concept of a "competent intellegent" Trot. Shorter hair, (like Kel's drawing perhaps)? Skinny legs? Her costume can change more than just shortening the dress and ditching the bonnet - her sleeves could be shortened, and frills could be done away with? The audience could be introduced to the "girly" dressed Trot in the rowboat and caves, who changes to the "tomboy" Trot that completes the rest of the adventure? (I'll post the sequence where the bonnet-swing happens.)

Notes to modeler:

Indistinct face (good luck on modeling) - make as boyish as you'd like (don't do lashes). Don't make lips full - just a line. Indistinct nose blip. Make stylized cartoon eyes

longer legs - make them as skinny and as long as you'd like (oh yeah)

make hair as unruly, as short as you'd like

make stripe pattern on tights however you'd like

Make skirt length whatever you'd like. Make sure you can see her undies when she moves. We definitely do want to attract the pedophiles.

Nancy, what look defines a "competent, intelligent" girl?

obviously not me

You mean we can't put a cow on her head!

EDIT: Did you see that the newest member of the forum (as of this instant) is called "cowhead"?! What an incredible coincidence, (I wrote the posting a little while ago.)

Nancy,
Are you in one of the famous moods you often refer to?
I'd try to cheer you up but it seems too dangerous and I really value life.

I ran across these character sketches online a little while ago.
They are by Glenn Keane from Disney's 'Oliver and Company'.

I'm not suggesting this is Trot... or that Disney is the ideal.
Its just drawings of a girl about Trot's age for additional inspiration from one of the masters of animation.

Looks cool to me. There's another characte in there that could also look good in 3D.

Another test for the mix. Hair needs abit of work, but you get the idea.

You think?

Save all these models. They might prove useful as extras in crowd scenes. Even if they are just heads they could be used.

Looks like the start of Pon. Cute boy. Make him a little older.