Full Version: Cap'n Bill
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Design by John Neill
Designed by Robert (Kel) Kelley.
I pulling the character descriptions out of the script and putting them into the appropriate threads.
QUOTE
Cap’n Bill has been Trot's faithful companion since she was a baby, and has taught her everything she knows. He is a wonderful man; not so very old, although his hair is grizzled, what there is of it. His ears stick out in a funny way but his eyes are gentle and pale blue in color. His round face is rugged and bronzed from years working the seas. Cap’n Bill’s left leg was missing from the knee down and in its place he had a wooden peg.
QUOTE
Captain Bill
He was a wonderful man, this Cap'n Bill. Not so very old, although his hair was grizzled -- what there was of it. Most of his head was bald as an egg and as shiny as oilcloth, and this made his big ears stick out in a funny way. His eyes had a gentle look and were pale blue in color, and his round face was rugged and bronzed. Cap'n Bill's left leg was missing, from the knee down, and that was why the sailor no longer sailed the seas. The wooden leg he wore was good enough to stump around with on land, or even to take Trot out for a row or a sail on the ocean, but when it came to "runnin' up aloft" or performing active duties on shipboard, the old sailor was not equal to the task. The loss of his leg had ruined his career and the old sailor found comfort in devoting himself to the education and companionship of the little girl.This sou'wester was a short coat of oilskin which the old sailor wore on all occasions
He squeezed the water out of the bottoms of his loose trousers and felt of his wooden leg
He was a wonderful man, this Cap'n Bill. Not so very old, although his hair was grizzled -- what there was of it. Most of his head was bald as an egg and as shiny as oilcloth, and this made his big ears stick out in a funny way. His eyes had a gentle look and were pale blue in color, and his round face was rugged and bronzed. Cap'n Bill's left leg was missing, from the knee down, and that was why the sailor no longer sailed the seas. The wooden leg he wore was good enough to stump around with on land, or even to take Trot out for a row or a sail on the ocean, but when it came to "runnin' up aloft" or performing active duties on shipboard, the old sailor was not equal to the task. The loss of his leg had ruined his career and the old sailor found comfort in devoting himself to the education and companionship of the little girl.This sou'wester was a short coat of oilskin which the old sailor wore on all occasions
He squeezed the water out of the bottoms of his loose trousers and felt of his wooden leg
It seems Capt'n Bill's sketches show him as too refined. I like the text description where he is described as a bit more rough around the edges.
A ham fisted, blustering, slightly intimidating fellow with a heart of gold and a large soft spot for Pon.
He visibly softens every time he looks at Pon and would fiercely defend her with brute force.
Not much of an intellectual but unexpectedly wise.
A ham fisted, blustering, slightly intimidating fellow with a heart of gold and a large soft spot for Pon.
He visibly softens every time he looks at Pon and would fiercely defend her with brute force.
Not much of an intellectual but unexpectedly wise.
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Jan 2 2008, 11:19 PM) 
It seems Capt'n Bill's sketches show him as too refined.
Yup. And on purpose. I did it because I tend to resist the 'hick', the 'rube' as an over-used cliche'. But I'll work up another series of draweings that show him closer to the Baum book illustrations.
OK, here's a new Bill.
Aye, That be Capt'n Bill.
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Jan 4 2008, 01:18 AM)
Aye, That be Capt'n Bill.
Sigh. I was afraid you'd say that [LOL]
I like Kel's first Cap'n Bill.
QUOTE(martin @ Jan 13 2008, 04:33 PM)
I like Kel's first Cap'n Bill.
I do too
Who wants to model Kel's first Cap'n Bill?
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I like Kel's first Cap'n Bill.
Me too. Though his second one is more acurate to the description. Also, I seem to remember his souwester coat serving a purpose as it has plenty of pockets. Apparently he keeps everything in them....food too for when they are trapped in the cave.
QUOTE(KenH @ Jan 14 2008, 08:58 AM)
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I like Kel's first Cap'n Bill.
Also, I seem to remember his souwester coat serving a purpose as it has plenty of pockets. Apparently he keeps everything in them....food too for when they are trapped in the cave.
Should we give the first Cap'n Bill a backpack? Should we add larger pockets capable of carrying several rations of biscuits?
If we give him bigger pockets, it would be easier to animate him getting the biscuits.
If we give him a backpack, the script might have to be rewritten slightly so he either takes off the backpack at some point (which means he would have to make the Orc get off his back first), or he could ask Trot to get the biscuits out of his backpack ... but the Orc would still be a problem. Either way, Cap'n Bill would have to make the Orc get off his back in order to get at the biscuits.
It seems it would be easier to give him larger pockets or maybe something like a small courier's pouch on a long neck strap.
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Jan 14 2008, 12:22 PM)
Should we give the first Cap'n Bill a backpack? Should we add larger pockets capable of carrying several rations of biscuits?
When I re-read the script - I could only find reference to Cap'n B having only 2 biscuits in his pocket. Unless I missed something somewhere else.
“I have only two biscuits,” said Cap’n Bill but I am saving them until we are truly hungry. You can have one of them.”
QUOTE(NancyGormezano @ Jan 14 2008, 12:45 PM)
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Jan 14 2008, 12:22 PM)
Should we give the first Cap'n Bill a backpack? Should we add larger pockets capable of carrying several rations of biscuits?
When I re-read the script - I could only find reference to Cap'n B having only 2 biscuits in his pocket. Unless I missed something somewhere else.
“I have only two biscuits,” said Cap’n Bill but I am saving them until we are truly hungry. You can have one of them.”
Ahh, then that solves it. We don't have to do anything to him. perfect!
In the original, it describes somewhere that he keeps everything in his pockets. Some other things he might need as well as two biscuits (I don't know if they're in our script)....
His pipe and matches.
Line to catch fish in the pool in the cave. They're fishing when the ork comes out of the pool.
"He soon drew out a little package of fishhooks and a long line."
But both versions only have two pockets each anyway so I'm sure we can do a "Hal's holdall" on it.
His pipe and matches.
Line to catch fish in the pool in the cave. They're fishing when the ork comes out of the pool.
"He soon drew out a little package of fishhooks and a long line."
But both versions only have two pockets each anyway so I'm sure we can do a "Hal's holdall" on it.
Bugs Bunny didn't carry a backpack and look what he could draw out of his pocket. [if he really had pockets]
QUOTE(Kelley @ Jan 15 2008, 10:47 AM)
Bugs Bunny didn't carry a backpack and look what he could draw out of his pocket. [if he really had pockets]
Good point. I like that kind of stuff when it's "believable".
What makes something believable is a tricky thing for me to pin down though.
When Bugs Bunny pulls a tuba player out of his "pocket", I accept that, and it's funny as well! But it wouldn't be if Cinderella did something similar, even though she rides in a coach made of pumpkins.
Why is that?
Personally, I think it has to do with consistency and setting the proper context for what you want to pull off.
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Jan 15 2008, 12:13 PM)
Personally, I think it has to do with consistency and setting the proper context for what you want to pull off.
Quite so. It's a subjective line that we try to draw in virtual sand.
But, over the course of the film, Bill could draw dozens of bisquits from his pockets, along with balls of string, fishing line, etc., and no one would notice. A tuba? That's over the line. [unless you're Bugs.] We suffer from being too close to the action, and we'll be at this for a year or more. Which can make for too much thinking time. The audience will only experience it for 90 minutes. If it takes a person seven viewings before he twigs to the fact that nobodys pockets could hold all those bisquits, then so be it. If he notices on the first time around, then it's because we've failed to present an engaging story. If we create a lavish Oz/Jinxland, a fast-paced plotline, with some witty dialog, it will cover a multitude of 'logic' sins.
That way would certainly work, and it's probably how SO is going to be.
Another way is to celebrate the fact that Capn Bill has all this stuff crammed into some seemingly infinitely large pockets even though they appear to be quite small. Trot is always asking him to pull something out of his pocket. When the group is in a jam, Bill could reach in there and pull something out, and sometimes it would be useful and sometimes it would just be funny because the thing he pulls out is so UN-useful in their present predicament. But that would require a different script. Still, I'm glad to be having this discussion because I'm learning something about believability.
Another way is to celebrate the fact that Capn Bill has all this stuff crammed into some seemingly infinitely large pockets even though they appear to be quite small. Trot is always asking him to pull something out of his pocket. When the group is in a jam, Bill could reach in there and pull something out, and sometimes it would be useful and sometimes it would just be funny because the thing he pulls out is so UN-useful in their present predicament. But that would require a different script. Still, I'm glad to be having this discussion because I'm learning something about believability.
QUOTE(HomeSlice @ Jan 15 2008, 02:58 PM)
Trot is always asking him to pull something out of his pocket. When the group is in a jam, Bill could reach in there and pull something out, and sometimes it would be useful and sometimes it would just be funny because the thing he pulls out is so UN-useful in their present predicament.
Right on the money. And...it only requires a few lines of dialog here and there. Nothing major. It doesn't affect the action.
I draw your attention to "Charlie Wilson's War'...a very, very funny movie. Not because the situation was comedic, [it wasn't] but because as they did very serious things, they said witty things to each other.
Something like your suggestion about Trot and Bill's pockets [expanded to include others, like Googly-Goo's bufoonish little 'Minions'] could add another whole level to this film.
QUOTE(Kelley @ Jan 15 2008, 07:36 PM)
Right on the money. And...it only requires a few lines of dialog here and there. Nothing major. It doesn't affect the action.
I love all these suggestions and ideas about perpheral activities and ticks in the character's acting - I think they are great - but alas, unless they get included in the script or directed by the pretend-make-believe director - they have the potential to fall off the earth.
QUOTE(NancyGormezano @ Jan 15 2008, 09:24 PM)
- they have the potential to fall off the earth.
Ah, but they have the potential to fly.
Is anyone doing this model yet? If not, I'd like it.
QUOTE(KenH @ Jan 17 2008, 08:02 PM)
Is anyone doing this model yet? If not, I'd like it.
I'm for it!
Here's what I got for Bill. Unless there's any suggestions/corrections, I've just got the belt and and shoe buckle to do.
Does anyone know why my hair materials don't have the "Face camera" and "Bow" options anymore? Do they go away when you have another option on?
Does anyone know why my hair materials don't have the "Face camera" and "Bow" options anymore? Do they go away when you have another option on?
Wow! Best one yet.
QUOTE(KenH @ Jan 21 2008, 02:10 PM)
Does anyone know why my hair materials don't have the "Face camera" and "Bow" options anymore? Do they go away when you have another option on?
He looks good. Somehow I think he needs a captains hat, but it's a pity to cover up the bald head.
I think those options for hair go away if you've chosen muhair ? not sure if I'm remembering correctly
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Somehow I think he needs a captains hat, but it's a pity to cover up the bald head.
He's not an acting Captain, so he doesn't need it. I also think he wouldn't look as good with a hat.
Ah....it must be muhair then. The hairs look very flat looking up close though.....could use some bow adjustment.
Edit: Attached Bills model.
Capt'n Bill looks good Ken!
Ken
Wow, you are awesome. Man you can turn those things out
Steve
Wow, you are awesome. Man you can turn those things out
Steve
Shucks thanks. It was Roberts great design too. It gives me something to aim for.
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