Robert I was just laying out this scene I look at your pitch video and I translated the camera around to show both TW and SC and I did not rotate the camera. Looking at the last pose of TW of Sc88 which I copied into the first pose of this scene and the height of SC I see a possible problem. In your pitch video I take it you want SC to reach up and wisper into TW ear or head area. After the scoop up of SC should I have him leaving the ground to make this reach seeing SC is so much shorter than TW with camera only show waste and up that is one possible way. Or can I have SC pull TW down when SC right hand lands on TW shoulder? Or shall I work within this limitation of the difference in height of characters and SC mouth around the top of chest area of TW and have him looking up at TW head? Layout .mov posted to show camera postion and height of characters with both feet on the ground. On thing to take note is the next scene of characters walking away if I rasie SC up too much it might not match when we have them walking away.

A combination of these two will work. You won't have to get scarcrow all the way up to TMs ear, in fact it's better that you don't.

Just have the TM lean slightly over to hear the SC when SC gets his attention by putting his hand on his shoulder and have the SC rise up slightly as if he were getting on tip toe.

If the TM's eyes are directed to SC then we'll know he's hearing SC and if SC's eyes are directed to TM we'll know that's who he's speaking to. They don't aim their faces at each other, their faces remain aimed at the crowd.

Ok Thanks I think this will work Great

BTW, This shot is a lot like the shot John did in our Tinhead sequence where the SC is talking to the TM... "Maybe we shouldn't...."

I will take another look at that for reference maybe we should make it simalar but I don't think we want to make it too close?

It's like it in that the scarecrow is having to get the tinman's attention and speak to him from a position slightly behind and below him, but it's not identical. It's just "similar".

Ok the dir was made and on SVN and there is an wave file but it's not right too me I think you are saying "pit torges and pit forks are a bad sign" I like the way you siad it in your pitch video better "I'm pretty sure that torges and pit forks are a bad sign"

Anyways in the pitch you asked for just one pose but I got caried away experimenting as usaul so here what I have so far.

ok, I committed an alternate take. Any better?




Take a look at just the main pose with an eye out for "tangents" and see if you can eliminate those. Also, lets have the Tinwoodman posed with his arms already down at the start.

thanks!

No I have updated and I still have a file dated 10/26/2007?

Ok I fixed the tangents and I added a another start pose to TW with arms down I am wondering if I really should have copied these pose from 88 there is a scene between I an guess he wouldn;t freeze still during scene 89 but I am sure I will change this enough as to not be too simalar of a pose.

I show a file 2_01_90alternate.wav that I committed yesterday. Not there?



much better!



I should have explained it better. His arms will be down at the beginning and stay down. His alarmed reaction was in shot 88 and he's pretty much done with that by the time we see him again in ths shot.

Ok now the file is there thanks SVN Lag?

Ok arms stay down So the next stage is for me to go for it? I am going to try to amaze you with all that you tought me in what has it been a year now? it's getting close to me being a TWO animators for 2 years. So I amgoing to nail this scence with the next take! .

ok, here are some notes...

in this shot the tinman will pretty much be passively listening to the Scarecrow. His body will be pulled around a little as the SC pulls him closer, but it will be slight because he's heavier than SC.

Have TM's eyes shift to the SC when the SC starts talking.

The SC will deliver his line in about two poses. He pulls up to the TM (to the pose you just de-tangented) but his eye stay on the crowd for "I'm pretty sure the torches and pitchforks are..."

then he pulls even closer and shifts his eyes to TM for "...a bad sign"

Ok Robert I made this up then i read your instruction just now. I will change this to what you just said but I thought I might as well post this anyways it's not what hour describing I have 4 mini poses and I have TW doing some acting with his right hand which I was going to ask you if this was too much which I was pretty sure you say it was but after that last post I know you do not want his. Like I said I will change this maybe tonight I am trying to get a long weekend if work agrees

After I switched wave files I decided to add some poses and repost a posing take this is not me going for it

Your conception will work too, if you'd like to go with that. It's a little bit more work becaue it's more poses. The only big change I'd make is keep the idea of SC drawing up very close for the last few words.

Be careful of doing blocking posing with the proxy because his eyes don't seem to keyframe the same way as the full model.

I'd make the scoop up to TM slower. And less arm movement inthe TM. I think the small hand gestures in SC will be the trickiest part of all to polish. we'll work on that.

My theory is that the "cooler" we keep this shot the funnier it will be. It will be unexpected, since we've just had three big and loud shots just before this.

More like this then? If yes then tell me what the next stage you want is breakdowns? only or shall I go for gold?

Hi Mark, here are some notes...

http://www.hash.com/two/RCHolmen/2_01_90_v11commentsMP4.mov

Ok he TW has totally recovered from the worried action of SC88 but what would his facial expression be for 1st pose. Should he have a smile on his face? nutral expression or slightly concerned?

SC I was thinking of starting him off with a smiling happy expression and then changing that into the 2nd pose.

smiles probably won't work here. I'm thinking they are apprehensive in this shot

Ok I added Breakdowns and I added facial expressions to main poses. I broke up the timing so things don't land in the same place so I kinda meshed up there but it just happened I kinda broke down each item seperatley so it looks better and I hope I can easily make some timing issue changes with what I have done

Hi Mark,

I have good news and bad news...

2_01_90_v31commentsMP4.mov

Thanks for the Comments on my body machanics improving Robert that helps me. I have tried to clam down sarecrow and Tinmans reactions as well but still trying to keep some of what I had before. You stated to just block it out so I have not really refined this. I am thinking that I might have changes that 8 into a 4 maybe a 3 lets see if we can polish this smaller

Way to go Mark. I love those facial expressions. Nice to see how far you've come along.

Yes, that's much better!

Now, there are still a number odd jerks and pops there (particularly the way the Tinman is moved about) , I'll presume those are just left-overs you'll polish out so we get to that "Don't anybody move..." sort of feel.

For example the Sc begins to draw TM closer on "pitchforks" but then TM darts away again suddenly.


I like the way SC tilts his head in on "pitchforks".

The severe frown around 5:17 doesn't seem tied to anything he's saying. Is that a left-over or do you have a plan for that?

Ok yes I had some stuff stell in from before and wanted to know if I was on the right track before going any farther. I was debating on whether to start over but from your last comments I think this route will work. So a carried on making smaller and your comments helped I think if I will go ahead and start facial animation on SC that's going to be the heart of this scene and getting him talking from the corner of his mouth is going to be a challange but it feels like it will be FUN!

Ok this is still really rough but the kinda the idea if have for lip sync

yeah, the jolt in the middle is buggin me...

You're on the right track with some of the mouth shapes, but lets concentrate on SC's "body-synch" first.
2_01_90_v50commentsMP4.mov

Ok I did all that you asked for I hope I have tried something different for bad sign I thought while I was working on this that bad sign was a long motion compared to the others then I thought while testing some things out if I did the motion up on bad and arced back down on sign. I do not have the timing perfect thought I see what you thought of this idea first.

I am off to block out scene 91 which is the last scene and is also the last scene left to do and I find it fitting that I have done both the 1st and last scenes of this song It's been a wonderfull learning experinece Robert I owe you a great deal my friend

Robert we talked on skype and you said this was still to big and you wanted to put some note together on this take and we widdle this down. Do you still want to do that or should I just widdle away myself and re-post?

Yeah, I need to get a free moment to examine it closely. Are you out of other things to work on?

Unless I have forgotten something I believe I am out of things to Animate. What that's the frist time this has happend in about 2 years

Hi Mark,

I had to think about this one, but maybe I've got some ideas now...

http://www.hash.com/two/RCHolmen/2_01_90_v60commentsMP4.mov

thanks!

How is this for the beginning?

Just an idea of the end just roughed in

Ok just breakdowns of major joints I start working on facial and a little hand stuff if you like this Robert

Ok I still need to nail the timing but this is what I have in mind for the motion

Incase anyone is wondering Robert And I are skyp calling about these takes. Ok Robert how does this look?

Ok I Reduced the amount of motion in beginning this hand grab happens in 5 key frames so unless you want to stretch that out more?

Ok

some thoughts about the approach

2_01_91_approachCommentsMP4.mov

it's really 90 not 91.


Alternate confusing explanation:

2_01_90hipmoveMP4.mov

Ok how does this look I thinking once we get into facial stuff I have his eye look at TM at ending motion

Ok from the shores of Colpoy's Bay from my cottage in a winter wonderland and I great March break with my family I present to you the TM body (only of facial yet) Animation attempt # 1

Ok lip sync is not my strong point that is for sure but we have to start some were I guess

Ok I made a mistake and I think I fixed it and keeped alot of my refinement I meshed up TM reaction timing to SC by draging all keyframes around for facial timing but I think I got it back take a close look if not I can go back to V111 but I got lazy and saved all the lip sync refinement along with this mistake

That's better! Lipsynch look tighter now.

The one tinman reaction that is still coming too soon is his grimace at the end. It should wait until after "Bad sign"

here are some other notes:

-SC's smile at the end seems out of place. can you un-smile him?
-TMs eye direction at around 6:22 and 8:02 looks more like he looking into the air rather than down the road at the crowd
- do his eyedarts in 3 frames or less. 5 is too relaxed looking.
-Sc's whisper hand is still gesturing too much. Part of it is that the anticipation it does at ~8:05 is too big, overlapping the head too much, and then it sails out too far at 8:15 The way it darts in about 8:20 almost looks like he's going for a salute. I think that hand should stay down more by his mouth.

Ok all that list plus I added 2 more things I moved the last eye change in TM to before the grimish look. By the way do we want to change that look or is that what we want? 2nd I had to move SC hat it was penitrating TM head so I rotated the hat back

Ok Arcing of Sc improved