So, you've participated in making a movie now. What have you learned and observed? Do you have any ideas on how you think we could improve the workflow and/or quality of the finished product? If so, let us all know. If you do, say why you think it's a good idea. Here's some of mine:

1) In svn, make a "movies" folder outside the act folders. For cleaning up shots, I have to download whole sequence folders and that includes movies which really increase the download time. I think it would be helpful to have the preview movies in their own folder (and subfolders) so that we have a choice whether to donload.

2) Only create a new shot folder if the camera angle changes. I appreciate it's difficult to know what the camera angles will be in the early stages, but the problem with having the same camera angle in several shot projects is that you have to match up the poses exactly from one shot to the next.

3) Assignments should be given out in batches of sequences to minimize different animation style switches.

4) Cycles for each character should be made first so that each character walks/runs the same through out the movie.

Have people specialize in a character. So people would only animate one character in a shot rather than all of them.

This way you can get distinct characteristics of how someone walks, limps, twitches, etc.

So you set up a 'storyboard' / 'bible', for each character, with animated examples of special features for that character.

I agree with Caroline each charactor should have a "personality" profile

Sorry I have to disagree a little....... Note that this vehicle is a training ground. Even the big animation houses don't have all the animators specialising in a character. yes, ideally you'll have a senior animator 'owning' a character but there is no reason why and animation sheet (like a modelling sheet) can't define the animation characteristics for you.

I think the production went well although the start was a little chaotic (but we won't go there - lessons learnt).

I think SVN has been a spectacular success but I do believe we need a better people management process/system - not in the allocation of work (I think dotProject is a great tool - if only everyone used it properly....) but in the mentoring process. ie when I started in TWO I could anaimate a walk cycle and I could move a character around fairly well but I had never animated the character with a prop or interacted with other characters - TWO has used a sink or swim approach which, perhaps, is not condusive to encouraging people to join in - it's not for the faint of heart.

Perhaps another think that could be considered is to throw people through cycles. That is, a cycle of blocking a scene, a cycle of rough animation, a cycle of clean up animation and a cycle of dialogue then a cycle of do it all yourself. Let people do enough work in one area to build that skill then move on. What we have in TWO are a lot of 'underanimated' or 'unpolished' scenes likely because the person allocated to the scene has to do it all. They might be good at some aspects but not at others.

When asking for advice we got a lot of individual opinions and it was left to the animator to make up their own mind. There needs to be a creative director/director who becomes the arbitor of what shoudl or should not happen. As it is we are all left to do our own thing and use our own judegment trying to provide a flow from one sceen to the next. Perhaps it would be more advisable to assign blocks of scenes to animators rather than individual scenes (or blocks of scenes to a small unit of animators who can work things out amoungst them selves)

Scenes should be worked through to completion. At the moment they are signed off at a certain level and just stored and someone may fix them/look at them later. I think the scenes need to be finished at a much higher level - even if it means it needs to be allcoated to someone else to finish them.

Shots need to run together better. There should be work allcoations that are dedicated to making scenes/shots run together better (after a directr has made comment about the content, camera angle etc and those are fixed first)

There's probably more but that's all that comes to mind for now.

Cheers

I agree with Mr. Higgins on this topic. This is an experiment that has never been tried before. At the onset my expectations were that of a regular studio workflow. However, within the first year of production, it became painfully clear that that is not how its going to be. I'm glad Martin has the flexibility to change the way things are done and keep the pipeline pumping. The expectations may have been lowered, but the goal of producing this thing remained.

All of the above observations/recommendations are valid. I think Animation Boot Camp should be the minimum standard to go thru before animating TWO. I've alrady voiced that opinion to Martin only to find out that many people quit half way thru which is why Martin had to let people in after "The Door is Stuck" excercise - or at least that's my understanding.

The workflow as it is works fine, if only more people were committed to this project to the end.

I agree with Dave and Dhar in what they are saying about a better workflow.
In my opinion the most important thing is to keep this experiment ongoing
even after the end of TWO ( only 33 weeks left )
in order to steadily refine this workflow.
So I would think it it advisable to start now with the planning and development of a follow-up project.
( I know, this has been discuessed at another place allready and the majority voted for another smaller project )

But I think for perfectioning the workflow, it would be better to be able to take the majority of the modells we allready have,
build a follow- up story for them and concentrate on perfectioning the animationskills, the collaboration-workflow and the
rendering and finishing of a movie-project along the advises that Dave and others here gave.

I don`t want to offend all the very good modellers and texturers here, but I think what most of us really lack are animation skills
wheras most of us are able to modell quite decently .
So the trainings main aim should be animation.
There should be still left enoughto modell anyhow.

;>) Jake

All of you who have worked on this, and especially Martin, deserve much praise. Martin for his steadfast belief that it would all come together, and hardwork and dedication making sure that it did--scripting,blocking,animating,lighting,project managing, therapist, producer!!! (he is the most amazing guy I know). You should all feel very proud.

I think it is a good idea to analyze the whole process and experience, prior to jumping to the next project.

Aren't those lessons exactly what you want to discuss prior to setting off again? In addition to the issues you've run into during the production phase, which is the main question posed in this thread...

There are many lessons to learn from the making of TWO and I agree with much of what has been said above.

The major thing that kept hitting me was that there was never a clear, unified website that presented the project to those working on the movie and kept things in order. There seemed to be a lack of care for the quality of the content and for the wellbeing of those who participated.

I wanted to see the project layed out in one location rather than having to go searching through several locations to find the direction, assets, etc. The way that it was set up using dot project, A:M forums, TWO Wiki, SVN, etc was just too much of a shambles for me. A website could have formed the nucleus of this whole project with links to everything that anyone working on the movie needed to handle each assignment.

I would have liked to see assignments managed in such a way that when a user logs on to the production site that he/she can view details of each sequence which would include a jpg image of the first and last frames in the sequence, director's notes, script extract, etc. The whole movie could have been layed out in this manner so that reviewing production would be more intuitive and people would not have to spend time searching for clues to maintain continuity.

To my mind the characters were never developed enough before production began and with little or no direction there was little chance of focusing the production crew on the same vision.

To me one of the greatest satisfactions in this project has been seeing the Hash team, particularly Martin, getting first hand experience of using A:M in production. I am sure that this has made a huge contribution towards the much improved stability of A:M and must have given Martin a hard lesson in the importance of having everything working together rather than just those parts that happened to be in the limelight this month. Much praise to Martin and the Hash team for all the hard work and dedication that you have put into TWO. I would have liked to have seen more care and passion in the early stages though.

I have made notes over the past couple of years that will throw more light on some of the major problems encountered and will be of some value to anyone planning a similar project but I'm too busy to sort through all of that right now.

Well done to all of you who managed to stay for the whole journey and to all those who had to leave for whatever reasons!

I joined TWO within a couple of months of when the call went out for Animation to begin. I did the entireTAoAM and all of boot camp and I can not think of how I would have fared if all I had was exe 1 ->6 I will always remember Robert Taylor telling me I was the 12th or 13th Animator accepted into the project and I was by far the worst Animator in the group

I have seen how things were intended to be and I worked in that manor for a short time tell that system broke down with 1st Robert Taylor leaving then after that the appointed AD's were supposed to take over but that didn't seem to happen for reason I do not know.

Any ways I like to say that higginsdj and Paul has made some good points but I feel my experience of TWO is a bit unique in the way that after going from Robert Taylors guidance into the sink or swim system and especially being a beginner AM user I feel for the new comers and I understand why people drooped out after one attempt at a scene. Trying to figure every thing out and teaching your self how to animate is a huge task! It's not a part time hobby kind of thing you really have to want it bad. So after months of stumbling around I ended up getting 2_01 assigned to me as an experiment. I tried my best and worked hard but it was frustrating difficult not having someone guide me. I had Rhet and the AM community which help but yes you do need someone assigned to you to help you through this IMHO.

Now another thing which happened to me is I was lucky and Martin assigned me to work with Robert Holmen in Kuklip B sequence. This is were I was under Robert training and guidance and he was my Director. So I had everything that David stated was laking in TWO and I was amazed on the difference it made! Many others have joined on these Directed sections of TWO and I have not seen one time were people were not thankful for the help and guidance provided by Robert Holmen.

I personally believe that the AD system which was intended from the beginning was the best way. I believe this system should be tired again I know for some unknown reasons things did not work out but maybe either the timing was bad for some people or maybe the people that were chosen were not ready or right for the job? But after making TWO I think out of the group of us that have seen it through there might be some future AD's for the next Project?

The one thing that is on my mind right now is if I can commit to another Project like this? TWO has been an obsession of mine for going on for 2 years now. I have worked harder on this than I do at me real job (I hope my boss is not reading this ) I have other matters in my life that needs attention and I am not sure if I can do this in a scaled down fashion either? I guess I need to see what the final ver. of TWO is going to look like and as well IF there is any chance of making this a paying job? I can see myself doing this full time in my day dreaming I can not seem to stay away from it that is for sure.

But for now I still have Alot of work still to do before I think more about the Next Project I still have a larger number of scenes left to Animate in 2_01 Sequence so if anyone is sitting around wondering what to do with them selfs now that TWO is done I have news for you. It's still not done. Anyone wanting to help post in the "Were off were gone" thread and Maybe you too can see if you really want a Director to work under?

Hi Will,

What I speak of can be best summed up, I think, as "politics". There can only be one person in charge and you either put up or shut up (or don't participate) - there's no real point in arguing. (bat and ball thing)

I think early on, Martin wanted to step back and watch what happened but perhaps thats not how it really worked behind the scenes. The Internet and Forum are a big buffer that can both hide and confuse "situations". Bob Taylor was in charge one day then the next day no-one was in charge - then Martin took over. There was name calling and ugly emails all just about "Politics".

In the end someone had to take control and once control was firmly and *publiclly* established things came back into line - though I think it contributed to a lot of wasted time in Pre-Production.

Lesson.... Avoid Confusion - someone take and maintain charge and set the ground rules from the outset.

Cheers

To be honest, if there was one person everyone had to clear everything (should he blink here?) with I don't think we'd be anywhere near the end of TWO by now. I think Martin wanted self direction all along but Bob maybe got a different impression. A mis-understanding.

How that impacts on quality (acting, continuity etc) we can only judge after watching the finished movie. But I think TWO has come close to it's life cycle......much longer and participation might have waned more.....resulting perhaps in no movie ever.

That's not to under-estimate Bobs input.....without him we wouldn't have got started at all.

While cleaning up shots, I find I have to do several basic things:

1) Close the eye lids of characters abit to get rid of the glassy eyed manequin look.
2) Lower the hips so they're knees aren't so ridgid straight.
3) Curl the thumb and fingers so they look more natural.
4) Turn on eye targets to give the eyes more life.

This may just be because we we're learning on TWO, but either way, I think the characters should have all these things built into a pose already and defaulted to ON. The characters will look natural from the start and it would cut down on cleaning this kind of thing up.

I got one, noone should be changing the camera settings in the chor. You should test render from the dialog box. Camera are set to do final rendering.

Just thought I'd add my quick 2 cents...
I was asked to animate on TWO after completing the door's stuck and I was so ecstatic!
I however, was new to the A:M software, new to animation, and was super confused by all of the different locations and tortoise svn thing...
It was very overwhelming, it's not that I was lacking the drive...it was a lacking of the basics and being handed too much too fast.
I don't feel that completion of the door's stuck is enough preparation for TWO. I know that the only reason I completed that tutorial was because it had great directions, I really didn't understand the underlaying principles of animation. I think that in order to have greater success with the animation...the Animation Boot Camp requirements would definitely be a step in the right direction. I feel that it is imperative that learning animation begins with simple rigs and simple exercises...
In order for animators to not get overwhelmed in a project like TWO, I think that they need to first of all...know the A:M software much better than I did, and secondly have a good grasp of the principles of animation! (stressing the principles here)
From my experience...I now feel much more confident as an animator after establishing a workflow and knowing the basics.

I think that it's important for animators coming into TWO to have a workflow method down
-plan out the shot (pre-planning is essential in animation)
this includes video reference, thumbnails, etc.
-block the shot
-then move on to refining

Hmm, anyways, I don't really know where I'm going with this... I just thought that it might be helpful to get an opinion from one who was overwhelmed and left...
Hope it helps!

Teresa, so good to hear from you

I don't consider you "left", right maybe but not left Everytime Woot talks there's Teresa, so you haven't really left. I do agree with you, however, about how overwhelming TWO can be, especially when the basics of animation were lacking. The Animation Boot Camp had a great start, but the mentor left to be mentored himself, and the rest of the people lost interest. Still, this has been a learning experience for all of us. I don't think anyone regrets being part of it no matter how much or how little the contribution.

Things that make cleanup easier:

1) Have dialog animation in a separate action. It makes it easier to modify (pick out the appropriate keys) later.

2) Keep emotion animation and blinks etc out of that dialog action. Again, it reduces the clutter in the action but also it means it's easier to have emotion outside the length of the dialog action in the chor.

While cleaning up, I've noticed that quite a few people are using the synNull to open the mouth for dialog.....but they're also using the phoneme poses. The phoneme poses use the syncNull to make their mouth shapes, so if the syncNull is used with them, then alot of counter animation needs to be done.
It's alot simpler to use one or the other.

Another time saver would be to use a Master Camera that's write protected and saved externally. Then this can be changed by certain people to effect all cameras in all chors. Obviously the render range and path would be altered locally in each chor.