can anyone say what's gong wrong here?

load up chor 2_01_50-V20-TS-elbowtest.cho from the SVN

the elbow is positioned to point away from the body and with no further keyframes I'd expect it to pretty much stay out side the body, but instead it goes thru some bad contortions. counter-animating it to keep it out of the body is not working welll since it requires many keyframes to counter the constant motion of the elbow bone.


I tried the solution from our previous thread on this but it doesn't seem to have any effect in this case.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28359

Deleting the keys on the "Right shoulder control" seems to bring it more under control.

That's better although there still seems to be unintended motion. is the wrist location a main influence on how the elbow is pointed?

I'm not sure how the IK elbow rotation is deduced by the rig.

I'll take a look at it late tonight.

I looked at the file and I didn't see anything. I did noticed the right shoulder control pointing backwards, is there a reason that is necessary? It's putting the shoulder pad in a strange position.

Like Mark said, the shoulder is rotated backward...I think it's the result of having the "right_arm_maintain_orientation_shoulder" turned on. Then, it looks like you're fighting against the shoulder movement that is caused by having that Pose on.

What I did was to delete the "on/off" keys for the "right_arm_maintain_orientation_shoulder" Pose, delete the "right_shoulder_control" keys, deleted the "right_hand_controller" keys, deleted the "right_forearm" keys, deleted the "right_bicep" keys, deleted the "right_elbow_controller" keys and deleted the "right_arm_FKIK" keys. Then, I turned the "right_arm_FKIK" Pose "on" at the beginning of the scene and re-did an approximation of the movement all in IK...it seemed to work fine.

That's the way I would fix it...but that's me. The FK corrections that were made to compensate for the shoulder rotation were just easier for me to throw out than to wrestle with. Also, the hand was originally in an awkward position...that would probably do better if it were pulled away from the face some at the wrist.

Hope that helps.

How is it that "right_arm_maintain_orientation_shoulder" is affecting the shoulder bone? I thought it was intended to allow the arm to maintain it's position regardless of how the shoulder is positioned?

That's what it does, Robert...I mis-spoke/typed. Sorry about that. When I was typing I was thinking about the "right_arm_maintain_orientation_chest_controller" Pose for some reason. It was the rotation of the shoulder with the "right_arm_maintain_orientation_shoulder" Pose on and the attempt to compensate for it that was the problem.

The shoulder controller was rotated toward the back, the arm maintained it's position. This put the arm in an awkward position to touch the chin. The only shoulder movement on the right shoulder appeared to be unwanted (of course, I could be wrong), the arm movement appeared to be fighting it throughout the scene. It was just easier for me to clean out all of the FK and go with what was already there in IK (since keeping the hand on the chin was a necessary component), making adjustments to get back what had been in the FK movement.

I'm sure there are other solutions, but I went with the fastest, easiest method for me.


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I'm thinking I should set the shoulder controllers' manipulators to "rotate only" in the next rig update. That might help some.

If you lock the hand down to the face and rotate the shoulder, you are defeating the purpose of maintaining the right arm position. (It doesn't matter in this shot, since the pose was keyed out of play range).

I was able to fix it by deleting the shoulder keys (or you could just reposition it) and reducing/adjusting keys on the elbow controller, bicep, forearm and hand.

Thanks yet again David for helping me I was wondering if you can save what you did to fix this as V21 and commit it incase I have trouble retracing these steps to fix the problem.

Again thanks to all for helping me out yet again.

I'll have to clean it up, but I'll post it late tonight in the folder if it will help, Mark. My animating isn't world class and it was extremely rough even then.

Ok I was thinking the deleting you mentioned was to get ride of the elbow problem and the animation was still intact sorry. Don't clean it up I just wanted to have it so I can animate it without the shoulder problem please.

I think I got it David I went through your instruction and I check the result of each deletion and I think I have this too the point were my animation or most is still intake but the shoulder is behaving correctly now Thanks agian for your help I Apreciate it. To let everyone know I think my misstake was that I copied this pose from another scene and I selected pose model with the shift I would define my poses and I think this was adding more keyframes then what was needed seeing when I copied it a had pose filter on so alot of stuff I was not needing was creating keyframes that were messing me up? I am not sure just my guess of what I did wrong.


Thanks for everyones help!

Cool, I'm glad you got it worked out, Mark.