Thanks everyone, for your participation!

http://www.hash.com/imagecontest/Oct07/

Great entries! Hard to choose. Some people really have skills!

I'm just glad we get to pick 4 of them. The spikey headed dude looks super bad a$$. I still have issues judging.. base it on the Mascott itself (idea) or the awesomeness of the overall render. Tough stuff.

Most often the mascot itself is placed on the CD, not a whole environment... so I would say, the character itself counts most... Idea, creation and the look of it.
For me, the iron... aeh boy? is the winner...
*Fuchur*

Very good entries, but can A:M use copyrighted material for their Mascot?

From a copyright standpoint is that ok?
Since it would be on the CD and load screen, I thought it needed to be original.

Note: started this message before the last one appeared, didn't mean to ask same question again.

I'm just glad iron man made it in!!

Oh now you're ganna get it!






Just kidd'in

Hm, what if the image is not an exact copy of the original; what if it is just an excercise in the capabilities of the program that created it; what if there is no misrepresentation as to the origin or name of the image in question; what if...? Martin, you're the attorney around here?

I didn't actually intend to enter this contest with that model, but put a lot of work into it and toward the end figured, why not? That's also the reason why it looks too much like... well, you know. There was simply not enough time before the contest deadline to change it enough. I believe it will be a mute point though

Back to TWO

Great entries everybody, these things are always a lot of fun!



Diddo...Well said!

Lee

This is where my lack of knowledge shines.. I thought it was just a generic mascot competition, not specifically something for a CD.. So, the environment could be part of it, if the mascot was to be used for a companies commercials and it is always shown in that environment.



But, most big companies (like you mentioned) have a full time staff of lawyers as well, therefore, are paying for them either way. So, they might as well get what they are already paying for. Luckily, it is on them to prove the copyright infringement and you to counter.. aside from a direct copy, I doubt you would receive anything more than the initial Cease and Desist request if you provided your side and indicated you were willing to fight it. In most cases, it is a bully pushing around someone who can't afford to fight and must adhere to the request if it is legit or not.

Isn't this all more in the realm of trademark violation than copyright violation?

The name "Ironman" is a trademark. The model's artistic design, purpose, and idea is copyright.

Robert's right, it is a trademark issue. Marvel's trademark covers the name "Iron Man" and the "distinct likeness." Copyright would refer to a specific work, like a poster or an individual comic book.

Trademark is much more than text.

one definition:



the design of a character is very much trademark material.

Images of Ironman that appeared in a movie or comic book would be copyrighted by the owners to stop you from duplicating those. But their trademark for Ironman enables them to stop you from making your own model of Ironman and making new images.

And trademark doesn't expire like copyright does so it sounds pretty powerful.

But, you can lose the trademark if you don't enforce it.

marvel owns the trademark 'iron man' within the market of comic books and conceptually as a super hero.

you could name your new milkshake 'ironman' and not run afoul of marvel, as most folks would not confuse a milkshake with a super hero. apple computer only ran into trouble with apple records once they started selling music.

marvel does not own the concept of a super-powered exoskeleton, so the only clear violation would be in calling this creation 'iron man'.

the question of derivative works is only applied in copyright, so as long as this suit is not 'confusingly similar' to marvel's tin solider in comparison to all other metal men, all is well.

-jon

Yep, it's a trademark, just like Mickey de Mouse.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc...tate=10dil.13.1
Trademark Serial: 74002106

Maybe if he wins, Martin will let him finish modifying him into a less obvious state?

Oh, and Jon's absolutely right. Well said, man.

I should have used different different qualifiers, though I messed up twice by including "idea" on a revision (which aren't protected by copyright), but at that point the entire post was worth getting rid of due to misinformation.

This is a great discussion, but look: we'll cross that bridge when and IF we come to it. There are a lot of great entries here and this thread was created for them, and I feel a responsiblity to get the topic back on track.

It's a good discussion and an interesting one, but maybe we should see how the results come back before we worry about it!

Thanks

Lee

If I drew a logo for my company that appeared to be Mickey Mouse but I called it Rex the Rodent, I'd be in the clear? I don't think that would work out. Disney doesn't own the concept of an anthropomorphic mouse but they do own the appearance of Mickey Mouse. Even if I make a new drawing of him that is not an exact copy of one they had already done, I'd still be infringing on their trademark.

Actually if you alter the chars face which is Tony Stark like. and alter the costume color and design a tiny bit you can avoid being sued for using the trademark. Comic book companies have been doing this sort of thing for years. An considering artists and writers jump sides every few years. The concepts, Char designs, art design and style are always similar.

I still can't believe trademarks are unending. I'm pretty sure that after a few hundred years, no one would care to enforce some of the trademarks or they would eventually be forgotten.

Click to view attachment

To keep this off topic (Can a mod move this conversation to a new thread?)



That's not true. You can never avoid being sued. A lawyer just has to file the paperwork.



They might not have an end date, but they can easily be lost. Sure, it takes time, but once something because common (because you didn't enforce your trademark) you can lose it when you try to enforce it.

Perhaps you could fill me in - I thought that Ironman was the cute little guy dressed in iron, but from this thread, I'm beginning to think that it's the red dude.

(Commercial TV wasn't allowed in our house when I was growing up - my idea of a super hero was Zebedee (boingggg). Sometimes I wonder where I've been all my life.)

Ironman is the red dude holding his helmet - Erroll Flynn'esque

I didn't vote for that one before I even read this thread simply because I knew Hash could not use it.

So what if he slightly modifies it.

How about the post history that I believe is titled 'Iron Man'?

Kind of a dead give away. Interestingly enough, I am not a big comics fan. If this guy had been blue I might not have even seen the resemblance.

A great shame cause it is a fantastic image.

Wade

This post history shows that we're not interested in breaking the copyrights or trademarks. We're trying to find a fair way to be able to use the model without hurting Marvel's business. If their lawyers want to come around and get a copy of this thread, they better hope the judge they present it to is half drunk.

And they could get a copy of the "Iron Man" thread... So? Started with a copyrighted/trademarked reference, and then modified to be his own model.

If only God could sue... We've been breakin' His copyrights for years! "Sorry, Leo. That painting is of a human. You did not develop the human design, and God's lawyers have come filing suit. Have a nice day." (That last part is a joke, a quib, and solely meant to make people laugh, but has little to do with the arguement. Don't flame me. )

human is a derivative work of ape, but ape is in the public domain so we're all okay.

-jon

As I recall, website chats and forums can't be used as hard eveidence as any of ti could be forged, so whatever you talk about here can't be held against anybody in a court of law. it's like using wikipedia for a history assignment. The image you can't really tell that it's iron man until upon closer inspection. Tony Stark's face has changed so much over the decades that the 3d one here can't really be a copyright violation (or trademark or whatever). And another point, YOU"RE NOT SELLING IRON MAN!!! You're selling AM and none of the profits go towards paying for the mascot that will only last for one year. Marvel should consider it as free adverstising the same way if you see pepsi in a coca cola commercial, pepsi doesn't sue coca cola for showing the pepsi product and logo because they consider it free advertising. So as long as you don't sell the image of iron man, but only sell am with iron man on it, you should be all right. I learned most of this in media studies.

So when do we find out who got 2nd, 3rd and 4th?????

Copyright issues aside, I think the works shown in this contest are awesome!! A lot of time and effort went into each and every entry I'm sure. Every one is a winner and AM is the fantastic program that made this happen.

It is my firm belief here that the creators of these works are thinking about how can I make this corner just so; how can I bring these two planes together without creasing; how can I make this image look as great as my reference material, and how can I make this image look like something that's pleasing to anyone who may look at it. That's what we're all about, not how can I copy my reference so no one can tell the difference and now I can pass it off as the real thing.

This may be a little overboard, but geez, let's appreciate the hard work for what it is and let Martin handle the rest.

The entry that wins first place doesn't always go on the CD.
My suggestion: Trademark or not, just vote for the best entries.

PROVE it.

the only rule for these contests is vote for what you like.

when someone -- anyone -- tries to influence the vote by saying what should and shouldn't 'qualify', i remember why i keep giving up on these things.

i have my own qualifications, but it's been a while since i beat anyone over the head with em.

-jon

jz: i don't need to prove it. law has nothing to do with truth. ' ' )

Hee hee...you crack me up o' wicked jon...following along those same lines I extract from this past Saturday's calendar entry (the 365 stupidest things ever said):

"University of Pittsburgh anthropologist Jeffrey Schwartz is a long time proponent of the proposition that humans are more similar to orangutans than they are to humans" - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

And just so I sorta stay on topic, to quote from my husband; "Copyright? We don't need no stinkin copyright. It's a copy, right?"

This has been happening for years why is it an issue now?

great entires.....

Because there's an unusually large number of trademarked characters in the running for the mascot contest this year: Iron Man, the Big Daddy, Remy, and is #8 supposed to be Underdog?