David,

When I bend the arm at the elbow the wrist fan rotates...

Before:
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Click to view attachment

After:
Click to view attachment

Any ideas on this?

Thanks,
Rusty

It makes me think that one of the constraints on the "right_wrist_fan_geom" bone doesn't have any enforcement applied. Check that bone in the "Rig_Components/arm_constraints_folder/arm_constraints" Pose. There should be a "Roll like right_forearm_bow_3_geom" constraint set at 100% in there. Also check to make sure that the two "Orient like" constraints are set at 50% and that "Store roll" is turned of on them.

I checked Squetchy Sam, he didn't have the problem. Does it do that on both wrists? I'll take a look at the installation rigs later tonight.

If that doesn't fix the problem, I can take a look at it, Rusty.

Hi David,

Yes it is the same on both arms.

Confusing stuff here... in the arm_constraints pose, the for left_wrist_fan_geom, Orient Like left_hand_geom and Orient Like left_forearm_3 were both set to 50% -- in 'Sam' they were at 100%. I have no idea how these could have gotten changed. I set them both to 100% but... but it did not fix the problem.

More weird stuff... Scale Like wrist_left/right_bicep_flexor constraints were set to 10% in my model but 100% in "Sam". Again no idea how this changed!! Set mine to 100% but again, did not fix.

I reset compensates on all the above as well as Aim At left/right_wrist_bicep_flexor_target.

Hope this didn't hurt anything with my changes.

Bottom line, I can't seem to fix it. And its a mystery how the enforcements changed.

I can send model if you want.

Thanks,
Rusty

Check your weighting.

Also, make sure you check the enforcement when you are in an action or editing the relationship. Sam has a 100% enforcement in the modeling window, but in an action it is 50%. So if you are comparing constraints, make sure you are in an action with both models.

I can take a look if you want.

Hi Mark!

Re Weighting: I haven't done any weighting around the wrist yet, this spline is 100% to the wrist fan.

A good point on checking the enforcement... I'll look again.

That's a very kind offer and I may take you up on that. I want to check out all that I can myself before I do that though and that will be tomorrow as we're getting ready to go out tonight.

Thanks!
Rusty

No sir, on the Squetchy Sam I have, they are both set to 50%...did you open the Pose? If you just look at the constraint without opening the Pose, it will say 100% even if it's not. The only accurate way to check is to open the Pose.



Same thing with this one, 10% is correct...that's what is on my version of Sam. You need to open the Pose to check the percentages.



I don't think that one is on the compensates list, is it? If it isn't, then don't reset its' compensate.



Shoot it at me and I'll take a look late tonight, Rusty.

David/Mark,

Here's the model -- hopefully one of you can find what's wrong with it. If it's a mistake I made please let me know what it was so I an avoid it next timel

Thanks,
Rusty

Click to view attachment

This can be fixed with weighting. You'll notice that this will happen when rotating the hand on the Z axis, weighting will minimize it.

I'll look to see if there is changes that could be made to the constraints. I remember setting this up for the twisting forearm fans, it was a nightmare. Trying to find the right combination of enforcements was a pain, don't forget, you can rotate the forearm on the Z axis for twisting the forearm and hand, which made this more difficult. As I said, weighting will help.

There is something going on in there that I haven't identified yet...it doesn't happen on Squetchy Sam or any other setup I've tested yet, but there is some rotation ('Z' axis) on the wrist fan bones in this model that I can't explain yet. I'm doing some more tests...hopefully, I'll have an answer soon.

David, Mark-

I greatly appreciate your efforts and suggestions. One difference between 'Sam' and this model is that the elbow was modeled slightly bent and therefore I followed the 'reset compensates' instructions for this -- not at all sure how this might relate but I keep coming back to this.

My wife and I and the 'kids' (our two dogs) are leaving for our Big Bear cabin today for a week. I should have modem access (we rough it up there LOL) and I'll also be bringing this model up there to work on 'now and then' (mostly I'll be taking a break from it all or so the theory goes). I tell you this in case I can't reply right away to developments -- don't think that this is not important to me.

You guys are the greatest -- thanks for your help!

Cheers,
Rusty

Mark/David,

While you guys have the model, I discovered another problem if you'd be kind enough to take a look. We're packing getting ready to leave but while eating lunch I saw Dhar's problem and brought my model up to see if I had the same problem. I didn't but... If you put the model in a new action and pull down on the hips null so that the model bends its knees you'll see that both knees twist and untwist (that's twist completely around). Any ideas?

Thanks,
Rusty

I'll look at that as well, Rusty.

Here's the action.

Click to view attachment

Yikes! No progress on the knees yet?

I'll keep checking.

rusty

Actually, there is...I just wanted to finish it up before I let you know, Rusty. It'll be an hour or two unless I run into something else.

Okay, sorry this took so long, Rusty. The problem with the knees was that the legs were ever so slightly bent backwards...it wasn't "operator error", it was just something that hasn't come up yet. What happened is that as the leg gets resized, the angles change minutely and, in this case, rotated the calf in relation to the thigh backwards by a few tenths of a degree.

The solution, when doing an installation bend the knee a degree or two just as a precaution.

While working on this, I also fixed a problem that I found with the toes when switching from IK to FK and back...it's fixed in your model, Rusty. I'll post a temporary fix in the Squetch Rig downloads thread a little later tonight, the next release will have the fix in it.

I'll PM you telling you where to get the updated model, Rusty.

You're the BEST! THANKS!
Rusty