Ok just blocking of main poses done so far.

2_01_51 2.5megs

Here are some notes, Mark. Thanks!

2_01_51_take01_commentsmp4.mov

Sorry this is taking so long Robert I had a week off on Vacation then due to a stat holiday I have a short week then I celebrated my mother's 83rd Birthday with her now I am off again for another week of holidays so I will not be back tell Aug 20th.

I wanted to post something and seeing I am having trouble getting the walking of tinman to look right I thought I would ask you for some help. I have never Animated a charater walking that I am happy with yet so hopefully you can help me with that. Now tinservant I did not even try to animate the feet I thought I see what you have to say about tinman first. Not my best work but I thought we could start from this and build from it.

2_01_51 take2 size 3 megs

Get the vacationing in before the ice cap returns at the end of August.



Hey, that got better! That's actually withing striking distance. I'll study that while you're off and we'll work on it when you get back.

I am back

Here you go, Mark!

2_01_51take2commentsmp4.mov

Ok this is not done yet but I have addressed the points you made and I started polishing here and there I am still not sure on tinman's walk? But I feel I better get your thoughts before I polish any more

2_01_51 take 3

Hi Mark, I just looked at it, the tinman is just about right but now I'm thinking he may be running off too fast.

We'll defintely need to carve out some more time for the TinServant to react and do his thing.

Let me ponder this a bit more before you hit it again...

After a skype talk with Robert have have slowed down tinmans walk and I have added alot more time to the tinman's motion and added another pose to him. This is still in the rough stage but I need some ideas about what I have done so far.

2_01_51 take 4 6 Megs

Tinwoodsman is working well now.

The Tinservant's shrug and eye roll should be a reaction to what Tinwoodsman has said... so Servant doesn't go into that until he has heard everything the tinwoodsman says. You really have to wait for Tinwoodsman to get off the screen, because while he's the most moving object, he will get all the audience's attention. we need a moment for the audience to reset their attention back to Tinservant. While Tinwoodsman is moving, the Tinservant just needs to keep his attention on him.

for the down pose, try to get those arms to look like they fall down and hang by his sides rather than being held by his sides.

Thank you so much Robert this is were pose to pose with breakdowns with all keyframes lined up shines through for getting this stuff worked out before reall polishing starts. Since I started to help Roger out I have been going through all this in my head lately and it's amazing just how easy adding in almost 2 seconds and changing one held pose is! and having nothing meshed up by doing it.

Ok here it is

2_01_51

That timing of events looks much better!

Now we gotta get that shrug working... it still seems like several unrelated body movements...

(this is practically live, you got the last rays of daylight here)

2_01_51_shrugAmp4.mov

2_01_51_shrugBmp4.mov

one more possibility... what if he tossed the can and cloth out of his hands on the up swing?

2_01_51 Blocking

Ok I worked and work on this and work some more. I sleeped after each attempt and reviewed my work just to find more and more problems or should I say I had found that I had failed to get the one problemed fixed. So after alot of hard work and long hours I have what I think should be a timed out blocking pass completed.

I'm lookin at it... we seem to have two shrugs now where before there was one ... lemme cogitate on this...

Its the anticaption that looks like another shrug I think yes I think the breath in and Anticapation has a time ussue or that is just too much for this scene? I forgot to adjust camera after elongating TS motion as well so now that is out of Sync to TS

ok, i think i see what you're going for... lemme think some more...

After talking to Robert on skype I have deleted to poses that were making this scene to completicated and we are going with teh less is more and I am trying to get the Concentina motion it match the scaling it does at the end I have increased the end pose and started the motion slowly and speed it up near the end. Or should I day I tried.

2_01_51

here's some more notes on the movement:

IMAG0004_concertinaReveal.mov

well, I can't spot the threads to 48,49 and 50 right now so I'll plop the vids for them here also

IMAG0005_sc48motion_mp4.mov

IMAG0006_sc49motion_mp4.mov

IMAG0008_sc50motion_mp4.mov

Ok so explain what is going on incase anyone is following this Robert and I spent about an hour on skype last night talking about these scenes 48,49,50,51 these are leading into the "were off were gone" and one major problem is that tinservant is spending to much time with his face too close to Tinman but . Then in scene 50 we wanted a close up of TS looking at his refletion in TM polished back but another problem is due to geometer of TM chest plate I have to get TM lower than TS to pull that shot off as well. The Problem is we both like the set there is a small 2 step platform infront of mirror which raises TM up and he is already taller than TS. Even if you remove the platform there is still this problem. So I came up with this solution and if I can pull this off without missing with my already long hours into2_01_51 chair removing test 1 this shot this might solve your problem. If I can get this chair out of the way without missing this scene up we will have the TM sitting in this chair for scenes 48,49,50

that could work. He's flicking the chair away too easily and his left arm and hand look very weirdly twisted, but i think that can be solved.

the way he's pushing away from the chair while he's turning to the Servant is effective.

The chair doesn't have to be turned 180° to get it out of the way. 90° would be enough and that would let him grab the chair more normally. If he grabbed it at the screen right edge rather than the middle, that would help get a better silhouette of the arm.

5 hours of none stop animating I have not even eaten dinner and now it's past midnight I will look at this again in the morning but thought I show what I have so far and then probably play with it all morning

2_01_51 refining blocking added chair and redid Concentina intro from scratch

I added an anticaption to chair movement in tm but the timing is off add that to he todo list

You kind of lost the way he was turning to Tinservant while he was pushing the chair away, That's something I really liked about your previous version. I liked the casual way he was doing it. His arm was twisted weird, and it was a bit too fast but those were smaller details.

It's natural for his torso and arm to push away from each other as he's pushing the chair. He's making too big a deal of that chair by following it with his torso, and that makes him have to turn too fast back to the tinservant. it's also odd-looking for his head to be pointing in one direction while his torso is turning under it. That's around 04:22-05:10.


I'd say get back the previous version and fix the arm and just don't fliing the chair so far. That would get you very close. YOu can probably drag the tinWoodsman from the old chor to the new one so you don't have to re-do all the fixes you did onthe TinServant.

If I have a chair like that I'll try to shoot something.


Tin Servant is better, he's still passing thru that shrug-down pose too fast

He's dropping down too fast as he's exiting out. He should be making a nice smooth arc onthe way out rather than dropping down then moving horizontally out.

moving the chair...

Click to view attachment

Ok you taught hi how to copy poses but how would I copy an entire bones timline from one chor into another? I try to see if I can figure ths out?

Ok I couldn't figure out how to copy an entire character motion from a another chor but I did get TW chair motion like your video but It seemed to work out better if I rotated it more I tried 90 and it was still in the way it just seemed to fall into place and I still added a little chair coasting after he lets go it looks more natural to me?

2_01_51 2nd chair try

Open the old chor and the new chor in your PWS. you can drag any character (or light or camera...) from one to the other and it will bring all its animation with it.


He still has an awkward halt when he stands that wasn't in the first one. Your first version was so close to nailing it! Could you commit the chor that had that first try with the chair and let me take a look at it? Don't delete this new chor, but name the first chor something like 2_01_51_firstchair.cho and commit it up to the folder.

thanks!

I committed everything the first attempt is the file 2_01_51-chair1.cho it's got a later date but I think that is why when I started this over for chair1&ts2ndtry I saved it before saving as chair1&ts2ndtry

I like to save versions frequently and I like to add notes to tag what the "big thing" I did in a version was, so later on if I decide I've gone down a blind alley that I can't animate my way out of (this happens frequently) I can identify what version preceded that detour and try again.

I'll save the bad ones too before I give up on them, just in case they have some thing useful that I might need to carry back to a previous version.

When I mark something with an x that's a flag that I'm trying something experimental that may be a bad idea.

Here i was having some sort of trouble with head motion around v25, so the next day i went back to v24 and tried something new.

Click to view attachment

That's helpfull Robert thanks when I first started AM I saved so many versions that I had no idea what was what and I found myself lost and gave up now I have only one file and I am in a BAD habbit of that now. I will try this system out and try to break those bad habbits.

Here are some notes on Tinwoodsman....

2_01_51_takeXcommentsmp4b.mov


I'm still looking at Tinservant

I have not copied the TS from the latest cho back into the one you are looking at yet should I copy or are you going to?

You can go ahead and fix the pass thrus , but don't move him to a new chor yet, I'm till looking at Tin Servant.

thanks!

Ok if you are saying you want me to fix the TW hand pass through I will as soon as you commit your changes.

Sorry, I forgot to commit it

it's called 2_01_51-chair1_rch-edit3.cho

ok, here's the TinSevant part

http://www.hash.com/two/RCHolme...ommentsmp4c.mov

his chor is 2_01_51-chair1&ts_rch-edit07.cho

Ok so we now have the tinman almost done in with me just fixing the hand pass through in 2_01_51-chair1_rch-edit3.cho and the TS with me to animate his feet in 2_01_51-chair1&ts_rch-edit07.cho So I guess with all these constraints involved I should maybe finish TS then import his animation into 2_01_51-chair1_rch-edit3.cho then fix the hand pass through and rename that to 2_01_51-blockingv1? then I go on to lip sync. ?

Yes, I think dragging the TinWoodman into the Servant's chor is the most likely. Try it before you go on to animate Servant's feet. See what happens.

I hadn't even noticed the lipsynch was missing, but save that for last, when everything else is working.

all that just to get to v1.

Ok I imported the tw in the TS edit 7 file and fixed the constrants and hand pass thought and I noticed a hand pass through after letting hand go and I fixed that now I realize I should have brought over the chair or the chair null seeing you changed that as well? and I already fixed that part But I think I did a good job and this and I hope it's good. I am saving in versions and I am pressing on with TS foot animation

Ok this is my attempt at hand pass through chair fix and TS feet animation. I will start lip sync tommorow.

2_01_51 V4

The Servant feet look great! That works just right.

HOwever, we've lost the chair turn that was slower and less of a turn. Look at the chor I uploaded and compare the final position of the chair to what we have here.

Probably the animation information on the null didn't get transfered.

Also we'll need to do something about the zombie expression onthe TS at the beginning. At a minimum he'll need to be looking at the TinWoodman.

Ok chaired fixed

2_01_51 chair null updated

I tried buting a moving hold on TS and Facail animation done to him. I have tried lipsyncing TW but I need to work on that more before posting it maybe tommorow I will post that.

2_01_51 V8-TS-Facial-1

That looks much better.

It's still hard to tell where he's looking at the beginning. Here's a few ideas to try on posing the face:

2_01_51_facecommentsmp4.mov

Ok I added what you said and I made a sloopy attempted at TW lip sync seeing he is turning so much and so fast just opening and closing mouth with a few Phonemes

2_01_51-V11

If I could go back in time and change something about this movie it would be to make all the characters' eyes about twice as big. It's murder trying to get them to read in anything other than a close up.

Tservant looks cross-eyed at the start and his eyeballs are wandering for the first second or so. idea... check the individual eyetargets and see if they might be out of whack. or maybe they need to be adjusted to keep him from being cross eyed there.

At about 08:11 and 08:22 his eyes are wandering around. I 'd cover those direction changes with blinks.

Tinwoodman looks great! I think you could make the mouth motion somewhat larger so we can notice it.

Ok here are those tweaks added in 2_01_51 V12

I think that looks cool! just two little things...

-the cloth is supposed to be in his left hand with the polish, right?

- his eyes are still wandering around at the beginning. Is it possible you've changed when his eyes are shifting direction but didn't move his eye blinks to cover the new timing?

Thanks for catching that Robert it is better to have someone else look at your stuff I guess I get to much into it I do not see the forest for all tress

2_01_51 V15

ok I noticed some more things...

-the frame counter seems to be counting 30fps, did this converted to 30fps at some point? Keep an eye on it when you change it back to 24 to make sure nothing gets weird. save the 30fps version, just in case.

-when he leans back from 4:29 (that's where i noticed the counter) to 5:17 his arms are pivoting as rigid units. You might be able to loosen that up by adding a breakdown in the middle that slightly raises the forearms. (That would be making them lag the general downward motion of of the bicep bones) That would be my first tactic.

- that same lean back might be a good spot to dip the hips slightly in the middle. A pretty safe rule is to always dip the hips in the middle of a move. Dipping them will be right more often than not dipping them.

I wonder how the 24 fps got changed to 30 fps I did notice that my starting keyframes had moved to 4.05 and I really did not look into why but I noticed after I changed it back to 24 my starting key frames landed back on frame 4.04 so maybe it was for the best that I did not change that?

Anyways I added a breakdown pose and broke up hte arm and hands and dipped hte hips and I noticed alot of linear motion in hips as well and I arced that some and after I arced hte hips I got what I think was a pretty good breath inhale and I decided to animate the face as talking a long breath in which I like now I wonder if you would like this Anyways I have it not in on another ver. so let me know what you think.

2_01_51-V17