I have just started to play with the FACE rig and I am having some problems:

I have started to test lip synching and facial expressions, which I am doing in an action. Everything looks as I expect in the action but when I drop the action onto the character in a choreography the "Master Eye Target" loses it's animation. I have not set any key poses in the choreography, just in the action.

Any clues?

I've tried all the things like closing other windows, reloading, rebooting,... but the problem persists.

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On another note: I notice that Tinman's eyelids are very restricted. He cannot blink fully if the eye target is not directly in front of his face. I don't know if it's possible with this rig but I think that the corners of the upper eyelids need to be prevented from rotating around the Z axis, or just prevented from moving at all with blink poses.

The Master Eye Target worked fine for me with all versions of Tinman, Paul...I'm not sure why it's not working for you. We have had some strange Choreographies lately, have you tried just loading Tinman, making an Action and then putting that into a new Choreography?

I fixed the eye constraints, they should work fine now...give him a test drive and see if there is still an issue somewhere that I missed, Paul.

On a side note, I noticed that there are some added pupil/iris poses in the "User Properties"....so there are now two sets of controls...the original poses appear to have been wiped clean somewhere along the way. The original poses (now they are empty place holders) are in the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface" section of the pose sliders, they are the "BothEyesDilate" and in the "IndividualEyesDilate" folder, the "RightEyeDilate" and "LeftEyeDilate" poses. That is very frustrating, I spent a lot of time on him...I'm just going to leave it like it is.

David, if you <right click> on the TINWOODSMAN.MDL file and pick <TortoiseSVN><Show Log>, you can be your own history detective. For example, I see "updated eye constrainst" by "David Simmons" on June 20th of last year. You can recover your version with the original set-up, and you can track down who changed it and why? Maybe it was accidental? Maybe there's a good reason? Maybe we need to go back?

Thanks, David. I'll see how it goes.

Cheers.

Well, I updated the Tinman models from the SVN and opened my test project again, which is using "Colin's Tinwoodsman". (Really nice work, Colin!).

The problem still remains though. The eyes are permanently pointing off to the character's extreme right. There are no keyframes visible in the choreography. There are signs that the animation is there, slight movements of the eyes, but it is as if something is constraining them to the right side of his head when in the choreography.
I haven't tried a new choreography yet. I'll try that when I finish rendering, in about half and hour.

The eye blinks look much better now though! Thanks, David!
Don't worry about the Master Eye Target issue, it is probably something in the choreography, as you mentioned.
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Edit:
The new choreography worked! Thanks, David!

After some thought, I know why it happened...Colin's Uber Eyes were put in. I just didn't notice it when it happened. I was also having a rough evening yesterday.

Not sure why you are using that version, nor why it is still in the svn. Originally that was there so that Noel could resolve conflicts. The tinwoodsman model currently there should have all the latest changes, plus some (e.g. fixed the "line" on his chest).

I will be working more on him (to fix other stuff) when David's changes settle down.

If you are doing lighting stuff (or whatever) - it would be really helpful if you could use the current version - so that I can get visual feedback on problems that might show up & need to change. Unless someone else is doing this?

So - is there a reason for those extra models currently in the svn (other than the proxy)?

I didn't know if I could delete them yet. If so, delete away.

Sorry! I beg your pardon, Nancy. It is in fact your Tinman. Well, it's got your textures on it. I must have swapped them over at some point.

Hang on. I'll post something in a few minutes and you can tell me. Who ever textured this amazing model has done a great job. My favourite so far. The metalic blue eyelids really help and the crown even looks better to me. I think what was bothering me about the crown was that it made Tinman's very long, pale face look even longer and more haunted. After removing the crown, and trying a couple of test renders, I don't think that removing the crown helps.

David, the problem that I am experiencing with the eye target persists. It may just be that I am not accustomed to the rig yet. It is as if the eye target gets keyed when I move Tinman in the choreography and that overrides the eye target animation from the lip synch action.
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(Example removed for copyright reasons).

I'll take a look at your example tonight, Paul, once it is posted. I'm sure there are a few more tests that I'll need to run to make sure.

Beard grooming decal by Mr. Will Sassy Sutton; Pink bolts fashioned by Yves St. Poissant; Clothing design, decals, color scheme by Nancy "Excess is Never Enough" Gormezano; Specularity, reflectivity property tweaks & irridescent blue moon eyeshadow by Colin Cosmetics of Beverly Hillbillies.

Having only one model (plus proxy) reduces the possibility of David doing unnecessary rigging tasks.

I guess whenever anyone needs to add a temporary model to the svn (and I've been known to do it also) - we should label it tempblahblah.mdl, then David won't go doing extra rigging work, and others wouldn't use it - also might be a signal that something is in flux and possibly being resolved.

Fun movie Paul - don't take it down

I'll leave it until tomorrow but this silent version illustrates the point better.

[attachmentid=23238]

Anyone think Tinman's nose is going to be a problem? One for the lighting crew I guess.
I can see him doing a "follow the bouncing ball" song with the dot at the end of his hooter.

I couldn't re-create the problem...it works fine for me, Paul. It's either the Choreography or I'm missing something. Could you send me (or point me at the file on SVN) an Action that shows the problem? I'll PM you my e-mail address.

You think there's too much movement on the nose, Paul? It would be easy to tone it down if necessary.

Thanks, David. I will get an example off to you.

Regarding Tinman's nose: I was only refering to the bright circle of light that the end of his nose makes on the screen when the camera is near to perpendicular to his face. In high contrast scenes that dot of light will be fighting with the action, for the audiences attention, something that the lighters will have to watch carefully.

Makeup!

Okay. It was me again! Well, sort of.

Being my first attempt at using the FACE rig I was a little unsure of the correct way to use the eye target and so I just used it in it's default position and through the FACE interface. This meant that the eye target was too close to the eyes and, for some strange reason, even though it worked in the action, when dropped into a choreography the eye target is set so far back inside the head that it causes the eyes to point in the wrong direction. To overcome this all that I had to do was to move the eye target away from the head in the action, just as I would normally do with any other rig.

Thanks for looking into this, David, and I hope that I didn't waste too much of your time.

Not a problem, Paul. That makes sense...if you are doing just facial animation in an Action, there is no movement of the character. Since the master eye target is outside of the rig, it will just stay in the default location no matter where you move the character.

Ahh! I see. Yes, I should have looked at the hierarchy. I just assumed that the eye target would be parented to the head bone and so follow the head movement. (That is just my personal preference).

Thanks again!

There are several different ways you can position the eyes, the master eye target is independent of the head, the methods that are not independent of the head would be using the eye aimer bone that is on top of the head when you unhide the FACE controls or using the individual eye targets that you can unhide in the FACE controls (they are also parented to the head).

Hope that helps.