Yes. I've started.

I've downloaded the latest Scarecrow off the svn and I'm starting to texture Scarecrow.

It will probably take about a week or so. This is thanksgiving week.

So in the event that someone needs to modify Scarecrow while I'm working on him, let me know & we can coordinate our efforts.

Do it for Noel, who will get stuck with having to resolve the SVN conflicts.

That is, of course, unless you like to see him suffer.

Have fun with him.

May god bless Scarecrow. *waving-handsign*

I thought he's already final?

David

Anytime you are assigned something, especially something that affects multiple scenes. You should make sure you have a dotproject task for it in your dotproject todo list.

That way if someone else decides to change something that may effect what you are doing they can look in dotproject without having to search the forum.

This reduces the chance of conflicts, and confusion.

Thanks for looking out for me Nancy. You didn't do anything wrong, just a heads up for everyone.
I made sure the task is assigned to you in dotproject now.

Have a happy holiday everyone.

Time has run out for the ScareCrowster.

What I have done: removed most darktree materials & replaced with decals, added painted eyelashes, blush to skin, changed straw hair material to use an image emitter, added straw hair to scalp. And of course experimented with potential outfits.

I felt compelled to coordinate. Since both Tinny & Wooty are dressed predominantly in green, I thought it wouldn't work well if Scarey wasn't also greenified at some level. Otherwise I would be inclined to re-do Wooty in some other color, so that each could have their own color theme. But for now - It's Emerald City Haute Couture or Enchilada Verde. I've also included an example of the 3 where they are not constrained to being green.

I tried to choose patterns for Scarey that reflect his background in agricultural field work, that are updated to reflect his new found intellect and his association with royalty. His clothes are supposed to be representative of patchy type sewing with fancy fabrics, and his burlap face is hand-but-not-too-crafty painted.

I'm curious as to which outfit people prefer & also how they feel about the face painting. Too crude? Ditch the blush, Ditch the eyelashes? Ditch the Gormezano?

Fabulous!!! Cirque D'Oziteers is stunning!

My vote (just one vote here - not overriding anything) is #4, and keep both blush and eyeshadow.

Superb work Nancy.

Now for the tough part, choosing favorites.

#3 is my first choice because it is closest to having all primary colors. I like to destinguish those three characters by color as well as by personality.

#2 is my second choice for the same reason above except for Scary's hat I thought was a little to wild for me.

Cirque D'Oziteers is fabulous, just too much red.

Adding blush to Scary is a stroke of genius and I like the painted eyelashes which seems to fit a scarecrow perfectly.

I never thought I'd use "Tammy Faye Baker" and "Clockwork Orange" in the same sentence but... that's what the painted-on eyelashes do for me.

I think the painted-on eyelashes will get inthe way of making expressions on Scarecrow's face.

Nancy,
I want to challenge you to think even more boldly.

If Scarecrow is to have such colorful clothes perhaps he should have different clothes entirely? (yup... that'd mean some modeling)

On one end of the spectrum might be a suit and tie to fit with the image of Scarecrows intelligent introspection. At the other might be the pajamas someone gifted him and he wears for no particular reason.
Now that I think about it the face of a Mime would probably be the other extreme.

Personality really needs to drive the choices the characters make including the clothes they wear right?
Who are they? How do they complement each other? How do they contrast?

Tin Woodman seems to play the straight man a lot in our script.
That he is the Emporer really seems to fit into the colorful adornments he dresses himself in.

Scarecrow on the other hand... Who the heck does he think he is anyway?
The answer to that question should reveal what could be found in his wardrobe.

I'm finding myself strangely attracted to the painted version.
There is something about the painted on features I like (it hints back at classic Oz elements).
Perhaps more pronounced circles on the cheeks?

Take this for what its worth... I'm just exploring the possibilities.
Think boldly Nancy... but not too busy.
Tin Woodman has plenty of that to draw our eye toward.

In other words, Keep it up!

They all seem a bit too fancy for a scarecrow.

<pops out of cave>
Hello.

After holding back from saying anything after Nancy's first postings of the TinWoodsman, I just have to say this after seeing her Cirque D'Oziteers.

Turn Nancy loose to do whatever the heck she wants with the artistic direction of this movie! The characters are SO much more vibrant and visually interesting in her most outrageous versions. She understands how to use colors to effect our perceptions and emotions, use this talent.

Many forms of entertainment go to great lengths to make the performers visually stand out to the audience. Storys are told daily on the stage by artists in outrageous outfits, while careful lighting and costume changes/modifications are used to manipulate the audiences perception of the artist to fit the moment.

Why not do the same here? I get the sense that Nancy is trying to do the "right thing" of keeping the style within a level that will be exceptable to everyone raised on the "Toy Story" visual style. Screw that! if this movie has a chance of grabbing attention it will need to stand out, and here is the way to make it do so.

Great job Nancy!

</Back to cave>
Phil L

I agree with Phil, don't hold back, Nancy!

I love these. They really take the movie to a different level.
I can see the reviews in three years
gushing over the beauty and visual stimulation in the movie.

My two biggest concerns with making Scarecrow 'fancy'.

Does it fit his character.
Does it work with/against Tin Woodman.

In the 'it doesn't really matter' column:
There is somewhere outside the movie the character known as the Patchwork Girl of Oz.
She could easily look as fancy and made of all manner of interesting color.
Scarecrow... I'm not so sure.

Can he have both fancy and plain adventuring clothes too?

I agree with letting Nancy really cut loose. Keep on experimenting Nancy!
Your talent is really going to make this movie shine.

Scarecrow scares me!

Sorry, the old fashioned guy again. Just an opinion...don't boo me;)
The texturing of tinman, woot, and now scarecrow are really creative and unique. Everyone seem to love them. Maybe I just need more convincing, see a shot all completed. But ... right now, I really don't like them for the movie. They are too busy and distracting and to me, don't fit the characters. These look like outfits of someone trying too hard to stand out and be different.
To me, Tinman and Scarecrow look great almost as they are in the October image contest winner

http://www.hash.com/imagecontest/oct06/21.jpg

and this is how I see them in the movie. Maybe just because I saw this take first and it stuck in my mind.
Sorry Nancy. I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. You've done/do great work. It is just personal taste. It worked comically for me with the Tinmans dream/rememberance sequence (loved it) but doesn't for the whole movie.

Scarecrow scares me!

Sorry, the old fashioned guy ...
...
... same as above ...
...
... for me with the Tinmans dream/rememberance sequence (loved it) but doesn't for the whole movie.

Once again, fantastic, Nancyesque magical, superb texturing job.

My prefered one is #7 although I would see the hat as somewhere between #7 and #4. I like the tiled black & white shirt. It is distinct from the other characters.

I also love the eyelashed face. Brilliant!

I'd like to mention a technical advise: Take care not to use colors where any of the R, G, B channels have 0 values. I know this desaturates colors but it can make lighting and later color correction difficult. I would advise having at least 5 (out of 255) values in each channels. That also means that pure black is a no-no. I did not really check the colors you used on the other characters but I thought I'd mention that while it crossed my mind.

Have to join the old fashioned guy gang.

I have to agree with the old fashion guy. Sorry Nancy.

Thanks for all the comments.

Even from all the old guys...er...I mean the old fashioned-don't-move-my-cheese guys. Unfortunately, I don't think my style would ever be able to suit you.

The positive feedback, of course is really appreciated. It lets me know that I'm not totally off base for others.

I've uploaded Scarecrow, with poses that allow for a costume change. The standard outfit for Senior VerdeVille is a variation on #7, and he can also switch to Cirque d'Oziteer.

Unfortunately it appears that Scarecrow got changed on the svn since I started modifying. So I've uploaded my version - called ScarecrowNancy.mdl. I'll PM Noel to resolve the conflict.

I guess posting a notice & assigning me a task for texturing Scarecrow in dotproject didn't work. Maybe the "lock" feature of the svn would be a better solution?

Oh well...

I thought that's a funny paradox. Scarecrow is made up to scare. He scares you and this does not fit the character? We might have a truely winner texture on Scarecrow then.

Yep, I had the same thoughts when I first saw the new designs.
Unfortunately I was not able to type these words 'cause of my spasmic attacks that had beset my fingers.

BTW it's great how you're able to polarize this forum.

I did try to make the paradox/joke even more obvious with "Scarecrow scares me"

But that is not what I meant . I just thought the characters were "...busy and distracting and to me, don't fit the characters..."
But that is the thing with quotes. Kinda like when a movie quotes a reviewer and quotes him as saying the movie is "absolutely great..." when what the reviewer really wrote was "absolutely great waste of time". As long as they put in (...) there OK. I hope the stuff in the middle explained where I was coming from.

Of course you explained yur point quite well. I just thought the paradox was funny and I tried to be funny with it too. Sorry it didn't work.

As long as you can still animate.

Whatever people may say about TWO, they'll have to admit it's BOLD. This ain't your daddy's Tin Woodman of Oz.

Honestly, your initial surprise is one of the advantages we have - both in the making and the watching. We WANT you to be surprised because that means our audience will be surprised. We don't have many options to get attention...

(1) Script: I love our script... I think it's original and unpredictable.
(2) Look: we got Nancy.
(3) Music: our songs cross many genres.
(4) Newsworthy: The difficulties of getting this movie distributed are going to be overwhelming! We need "hooks." For example:

A. The first volunteer collaborative feature length 3D animated movie created entirely over the Internet.
B. Bold, outrageous designs that only computer animation can offer.
C. A compelling story suitable for children but not dumb.

In the making of this movie, we've got a great human interest story. It might attract press. If we can get press, we can get distribution: NetFlix? YouTube? Mail Order? Movie tradeshows? We hope to get buzz from the things I listed above. Anyway, that's the plan.

(Us old white guys sure are a tough crowd.)

Actually, scarecrows aren't meant to scare humans....but birds. I think some of the colors may attract some.....magpie's like shiny things right?

Seriously though. The impression I have of scarecrow's personality is that he's an earthy sort of guy. Being born in a farm tends to have that effect. Also, he's got a superior brain and looks down on such grandure and fuss in the clothes displayed above. No, just give him an 'ol sackcloth and he'll be happy.....well as happy as scarecrow ever gets.

Character is King....not Tinman.

I have a different take on Scarecrow.

Yes, he comes from a poor background, neglected & left to languish in the field, with never enough straw, his clothes becoming more & more faded & threadbare, year by year, covered in pigeon poop. A very sad sight, indeed ... Until....

Yes - He's off to see the Wizard! To get a brain! So that he can improve his sorry lot in life. Find a better job. Break free from those days of servitude, travel the world, find a sugar-momma (ok, so maybe not the sugar-momma part)

And so now he finds himself part of the "Nouveau Riche", living in an outrageous palace. Surrounded by luxury & abundance, with piles & piles of elegant fabrics in his wardrobe closet & plenty of fresh clean straw daily.

Life is good.

But Scarecrow is not from "old money", and thus he doesn't have their tweedy, conservative sensibilities.

The old adage is true. Brains & money does not mean good taste.

No, No. Even with his new found intellect, he hasn't yet developed a sophistication in fashion.

At long last, he's living large...And perhaps over-indulging himself in riotous patterns and color, to compensate for his deprived childhood.

I'm sure each one of us could come up with some back story that is equally plausible.

Dear "old fashioned guys": I like to see, hear, taste, & do new things every chance I get. That is just who I am. I will choose that over "familiar or expected or same old" most any day. It feels more interesting & alive to me.

Maybe I really am the devil incarnate? Nyah. Must be I'm channeling Mrs. Yoop once again.

This makes me laugh

Dad: Hey kids, can I make a suggestion?

Kids: Shut up, dad!

Why not? Go for it Nancy! Your style is awesome. I've never seen Tim Burton loop-de-loops with "She-Ra" colors and I don't think the average movie goer has either. This is something we have going for us and we should use it. People will love it or hate it, but at least it will catch someone's attention.

Lee

One good thing about scarecrows outfit.....it makes tinman's get up look tame in comparison.

Nancy, you're right about each one of us able to come up with a different backstoy. At times like this, it's necessary to delve into the script. Does scarecrow say anything that would conflict with his desire to wear such lavish clothes.....these are things we should watch out for.

Love them all Nancy. I'd echo what Yves said about the saturated colors. My least favorite tend to be the darker ones. the black and whites. All of the colore ones are superb. The reason I don't likethe dark ones is that they'd be hard to light in dark settings ;-)

I also think theres to much green.. how about a purple scarecrow hat? or orange? kinda fall like.

I agree you should be let go to do as you wish. You've proven yourself capable and I'd like to see what you could do when you cut loose

Keep up the excellent work.

In case there's any confusion, these designs are all excellent in their own right. I especially like the face work (minus the lashes). I'm only trying to get us thinking about the "overall perspective".
So, thanks for your hard work Nancy.

Uh-huh. So far, I haven't heard or seen anything to that effect.

And if it does show up in some place, I could also make a case for cognitive dissonance on Scarecrow's behalf. Scarecrow's, not mine. Who among us hasn't exhibited inconsistent behavior?

The main thing I would be concerned about is disruption of readabilty of the animation. And that, I feel can be tweaked.

The goal is such that eventually the unsuspecting viewer will stop noticing the outfits and get entwined in the story and the other elements.

I would want to entice and stimulate the viewer's sensations, feelings in every way possible. Hit them on every level. Sight & sound & feeling.

I like # 4 but I don't like the eye lid painting I agree with Robert it might make him harder to animate In 2_01 he is sleepy/anger and annoyed with that eye painting I don't think I have enough talent hay I have none at all to make that come accross with that happy almost feminate makeup.

But I love the clothes and the rest Nancy you have done a great job!

I checked on the colors - I usually make sure that the colors are not pure. I think this is the case here. And Scarecrow is all decal. The black and the white check RGB values in the tga are 250, 250, 250 and 5,5,5.

And funny you should suggest an orange hat.

Before I uploaded Scarecrow last night - I made a pose to change his hat color to an orange print (from his default green/black). And of course there is an additional pose to switch his clothes to the Cirque d'oziteer red shirt, yellow print pants from his standard outfit. These are found under animation controls. Just like Woot & Tinman. Scarecrow comes with options.

I also tried out facial expressions with Scarecrow's eyes before uploading. I didn't think the lashes got in the way. They seemed to enhance & exaggerate it. But there was some stretching, so we'll see.

Also, there is a problem with the rigging of his left eyelid - which I did not want to monkey with and was going to say something after Noel gets the commit conflict resolved. I haven't heard back from Noel, so I don't know when he will get around to it. My scarecrow model is in the svn scarecrow folder called surprisingly ScarecrowNancy.mdl

And I also want to say - it's a real treat for me to "color" these beautifully designed, modeled & rigged models, despite dreading reading some of these reactions. I understand it will not suit everyone's taste. And I am truly flattered by the supportive reactions.

Thanks again to all for your feedback.

But keep in mind (I think Nancy mentioned it above):
At the moment we're talking about pictures, not animations!
This means we have lots of time to sit back, look here and there, investigating things/clothes/textures for minutes. The audience will only have seconds for this!

So please take a picture from Nancy and watch it only for some seconds. Are you capable of getting the structure / form of the objects? I think it's damn hard! I bet you'll get confused. It's even hard enough to get the models "as they are", but with motion in it ...

We're still NOT talking about the final chor! So there'll be much more for the audience to have a look at.

As I said: Keep this in mind.

Cheers,
David

actually Deejay, motion will help the characters pop more since they'll be one of the few things moving in the scene. The colors help to make the characters stand out IMHO I've lit scenes with both types and the new tinman is much better in terms of lighting and foreground background seperation.

Its a balancing act, but I think Nancy is on the right track.

I like all of them nancy... I believe there are good reasons for your choices... these characters are not meant to be the ones from the past... they have moved on to a new quest! They must have new cloths/look so that TWO is TWO not The Wizard of Oz (also TWO).
Scare crow's face should have something done to the lips too... I mean, not lipstick or color, but wear and tear - worn out spots... looking like his head has been through some useage a little (just the suggestion of it). What do you think?

Nancy,
I hope you see all this feedback as positive, even those you don't agree with or find agreeable.
The importance of resistance cannot be overstated. It hopefully reenforces and validates and gives you the impetus to press on!

If all you got was a lot of "Oooo that's perty!" then you'd have something to worry about.

You're doing magnificent work.

I'm sorry but I need to add my 2 cents.

(Old guy steps into the room)

Nancy, you are a very talented, artistic person and you do incredible work but when I picture the Wizard of OZ's main characters or more appropriately, the Tin Woodman of OZ's characters, I don't see Cirque De Soleil. Yes the costumes are bright and colorful but I agree with one of the other old guys in that it's too distracting.

It actually (IMHO) could take away from the story because I could easily see myself (as a first time viewer of the movie) watching the movie and being more focused on trying to figure out why Scarecrow and Tin man look so ahhh...different.

I think the original concept for the characters is more aligned to what most people relate to for OZ characters.

Even Cirque De Soleil realizes the difference of their performance. Their costumes appear to be more in line with a ballet performance which makes sense.

If the movie was in a ballet format I think the costumes would be perfectly but in an acting "Pixar" type of movie, (to me) it doesn't work.

Last point,

The painted on eyelashes give the impression Scarecrow is female. From all the cartoons and drawings I've seen, over extended eyelashes symbolize femininity.

Because Scarecrow's character has already been established to be male, they don't work for me unless were showing scarecrow is a cross dresser which I'm severely hoping is not the case.

Nancy, I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way. You are an extremely talented artist.

George

I think Nancy's interpretation fits perfectly. It is a unique style, and we are a unique bunch. It's a match made in heaven.

And I respect your opinion Dhar. Nancy's interpretation is very creative and shows awesome talent but I don't agree with you that it fits perfectly. I do agree when you say we are a unique bunch though.

One of the greatest things about a forum like this is that we can give our opinions (respectfully) and agree to disagree.

I can't believe all the civility and maturity we're getting around here lately.

Agree to disagree?.....I don't know about that........I disagree

Coming from a guy with an avatar of two guys kicking the shit out of each other, I think you're right on character ;-) for you! But who's to say what is normal in OZ.. who says Scarecrow has to be a guy, what if as a kid he felt like he was a girl in a man's/scarecrow's body?

The point is that all of this stuff is up for interpretation, there is no bible of OZ. Nancy's take is as valid as anybody elses. I would argue more valid than a bland one since we are talking about a magical country with witches and wizards.

I'd like to push every possible boundary with the preconceptions people have, but thats just me. We'll all meet in the middle at some point, but I hope that middle is square in Nancy's comfort zone, otherwise this movie will lose alot of heart.

one last thought. Its better to push the limits on the front side and come back later and say, "no, that is to distracting or doesn't work, than to assume something won't work before you've even tried it". To assume that a blander take on Oz is the most appropriate take before you've even seen a movie with some flare seems like a recipe for making a very bland movie.

I'm sorry you lack the ability to allow people to voice their opinion Dhar. I though this was an open forum where we can exchange our ideas and feelings. I was respectfully responding to how I felt about the possible changes. I did not mean to upset anyone.

Just like you agree that the costumes are good and work well and would be good for the movie, I respect YOUR opinion. I don't see why you can't respect that I disagree with them. If I'm asked what I think I'll tell you.

The comment that I think you misunderstood is agree to disagree. All I meant by that is you agree with the colorful look and I don't. So what if I don't? It's only MY opinion. I could be wrong here but I thought the community was a place to voice everyone's opinions.

I did not mean to anger you Dhar.


George

He's joking George.

Look for the emotion in his post... like this. >

Its hard to convey humor in type isn't it?

Just an aside here, Colin mentioned my avatar LOL.

I've been practicing my martial art style on and off for about 25 years. The style is Bruce Lee's martial art "Jeet Kune Do" thus the name "Jeetman".

I don't know why but I felt I should clarify that .

I idolize Bruce Lee for his amazing level of skill he acquired in his short life. For those who may not know, the Avatar is from the movie "Return of the Dragon" where Bruce Lee takes out Bob Wall who plays a thug.


George




I'm sorry, I couldn't tell. I thought he was truely angry with me. I have to look at the emotes more closely.

Sorry Dhar.

Look at my face, do I look like someone who gets angry? Sorry you didn't get my joke.

I love you man

So it's copyright protected material. You naughty robber!!!



Well, THAT would be fun!!
A gay-drama, about a tin-emperor (who not dares to do his coming out because he's king!) and his secret boy-friend, the scarecrow (who puts on female clothings while they're on their own) and their BIIIG which to adopt a little boy (gues who?).

Why not? Suddenly all the clothings & songs make sense ...