At this point I haven't done more than placed the "new" head on the"old" body and done some minor adjustments. I plan to take it from there.
Bob wants to use the new head on a body somewhere between the original
and the reproportioned one. I'm also going to simplify the joints. There is also going to be modesty plates (instead of the kilt from the original design).


The new head on the old body: Bobs modification with Pauls ps retouch (will be used as ref)
[attachmentid=11198] [attachmentid=11199]

WooHoo!

I loved that last version with the modesty plates. Nice compromise between the two extremes. I was going to root for that one before the thread got moved.



p.s. I have modesty plates... but my dish washer is broken and they aren't clean right now.

Vernon "Not wearing modesty plates" Zehr

Good luck Stian! I know it's going to be great. Love the head btw. Glad we're going with it.

Great! I look forward to your WIP thread, Stian.

If its the pic on the right.... It looks great and actually I like your ingraving!
BT

No, the image to the right is Paul's photoshop retouch, and is similar to the result he will end up like (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong)

You are not wrong. Have you done any thinking about the joints? If you can contact Mark (mtpeak2) about rigging the joints as you model, that may help smooth out the rigging process.

Thanks,
Jim

First thing I think the wrists and ankles need to be ball joints. Shoulders I need to think about.

Sounds great. Who can approve changes like that? Jim?

minor update:
[attachmentid=11246]

I approve the ball jonts!

Ball joints are nice and simple. You can look at Tingirl's joints as a starting point if that helps. But maybe Tinman can be less curvy and soft.

Jim

have made an rather simple balljoint (wrist)
[attachmentid=11255]

Hey Stian, can we see what it would look like if the ball was part of the hand instead of two separate pieces of geometry? Though, that's up tp Jim.

I like what Stian has here, but I wouldn't mind seeing what it looks like if the ball is part of the hand.

The fingers look really busy and complex, but I'll wait to see how it all looks together, before I decide if we need to simplify them.

Here's an image of Tingirl's hands, to show what it could be like.


Jim

new joint:
[attachmentid=11302]

Testrender
note: have added an ankle balljoint

[attachmentid=11308]

I'm sure you're getting round to it, but there's something different about the scale of the head relative to Jim/Paul's one.

Looks good, Stian! I like the simpler ankle area. Can you flare the wrist area like you did the ankle area?

I agree with Ken, the head seems too large for the body right now. One other thing I probably forgot to mention, is that at one point, Tinman takes off his crown (maybe in the presence of a lady?). Please make sure the funnel and crown are one piece or at least both removable from the head and that he has a top to his head underneath.

Try to make all his limbs a little bit thicker, without making his knee and elbow joints any bigger.

And I would really like to see some kind of kneecaps, too. You probably just haven't gotten to them yet.

Thanks,
Jim

Sure

Do you want me to scale it down on all the axis? or just make it more "slim". Both the crown and the funnel is separate pieces, but I'll need to close his scalp, no problem.

I'll give it a shot. Regarding the kneecaps, do you want me to make the similar to the ps retouch?

Would it be possible to get a more level shot of him (next time you post)? A similar angle to your first post. I've a feeling his neck might be shorter too.
Looking at it some more, the shoulders see to be fuller in the touched up one.....and the chest flatter.

Oh, I'll stop now!

Please scale the head in all axis.

Here's a doodle of how the kneecaps could be done. I want them to be part of the lower leg and cover a little of the upper leg so it doesn't look like the lower leg could bend forward as it does now. Hinge or ball joints are fine for the knees, I think.

Jim

New update:
whats new
-scaled down the head
-made limbs a tad thicker
-kneecap (not sure Jim will accept this version.... )

Same model, just two different chors (makes a big difference I must say!)
[attachmentid=11380] [attachmentid=11379]

I think we're close!

I'd like to see the kneecap not go as high up in front. And make the kneecap flow into the shins in a more graceful curve.

Here's a Photoshop tweak to show what I'm trying to describe. Can you also make the flares on his ankles and wrists more pronounced. (Just for visual interest, and also to portray "clothes" when he gets his engraving.)

Thanks,
Jim

Thanks Jim. Nice ps tweak, makes a huge difference. Looks much better.

Why does he look soo different??
confused Director
BT


I should have said from this one I liked...

I think in the touched up version his shoulders are lower. By that I mean the arms come out from the center of the spheres and not the top. Maybe that'll come good in rigging?

Also, his stomach area (above his hip sphere) seems more defined in it. And the feet are a little different.

Can't the shoulders be straightened out in a pose? Anyway, I'm awaiting Marks's point of view regarding the shoulderjoints. I agree about the stomack Ken, I'll take a look at it. Jim, I dont like his feet/shoes as they are now (I think they are to chubby). New update:

[attachmentid=11385]

In general, he appears slightly more elongated in Paul's sketches. He also has more neck, and a thinner face; and his feet seem flatter, (even though they are tiny sketches). As I was working on the animatics, Tin Woodman began to evolve. In the end he's a bit lankier, sorta Jimmy Stewartish, (the "never-ending love" stuff got me thinking that way). Plus, he could be powerful if needed it, (not Conanish - more like Stewart in his 50s).
Does any of this make sense or am I babbling incoherently? I have been up for months..............
BT

The major difference that I am noticing is the torso, particularly the upper chest area. Check out the distance between the top of the heart-door and the neck on the two images. Also the watch the contours. The flaring at the bottom of the chest section is not yet present in your revisions, Stian.

The crown/funnel could also be cocked slightly to one side.

If you want me to do any tweaking at any time just shout but I know that you are more than capable.

Keep up the good work.
Back to the forest for me...

I'm with you Bob. I like the image you posted more so. He's thinner, lankier. Does that include the tin etching? It looks really cool.

Frank Silas
http://www.franksilas.com

Sorry I'm late with this, but this shoulder has been driving me nuts. Ok, sleeved shoulder/bicep joint works (extra rigging). Here's an alternative, no joint at all, shoulder ball and bicep are one piece, flexible joint (should work with squetch rig). Translate the bicep to rotate the shoulder ball. Here's a pic and rigged model.

Thinking about it more, you could probably leave the joint and let it flex (with weighting), since the shoulderpad hides most of it.

I agree. Kneecap seems too high. It should not go higher than the top of the knee hinge. Do a quick test folding the leg to see what I mean.

Here's a wonderful expression montage that Bob drew for Tinman.

I like the way the jaw never really separates from the face. It will keep things from getting ugly with his lipsync.

Jim

Haha that looks like a story in itself ,great drawring

Wow! Great poses Bob. Getting them transfered to 3D is going to be a crucial part of the process of bringing Tinman to life. Imagine being able to animate with poses that look like this! Talk about more fun.

Those expressions are fantastic! Makes me excited to see them ... the Tinman's personality is now coming thru, and showing up as being quite the character - so much fun...

(and Bob, your gabazillion years of experience & talent are also shining thru - this is such a terrific learning experience for me)

I'm giving Stian a hand with Tinman...well, actually I'm working on the head of Tinman, not a hand, but you know what I mean.

Based on Bob's expression sketches.

Jim

Looks good to me, Jim. Top job!

Very nice eyes too!

And what he looks like when he removes his crown/funnel hat.

I just hid the crown and hat, so I guess that's what caused the grainyness in the one on the right.

Jim

Ha! He looks perfect to me!

What is that line that has appeared across his cheek? Is that reflection from his jaw? The grainy glitch is a bit strange. One for A:M Reports?

Superb Jim !

Al

Looking good! I'll be interested to see how you tackled the jaw. It looks like it's connected to the upper lip.

Thanks!

Yes, it is attached. The way Bob drew the poses has it that way, and I think it will help avoid a lot of strangeness when the mouth opens wide, if the lips distort with the jaw as if it were skin.

I'm using hooks in some areas along the jaw and I'm getting some weird things happening. right along the top edge of the jaw behind the corner of the mouth.

The line on the cheek is some kind of reflection. The ground plane, maybe?

Jim

Magnificent Jim!
BT

Have there been an settlement about the shoulderjoint?

Just comparing the chin in Bob's drawings and the 3D chin, they don't seem to be the same thing.

The 3D chin is almost overwhelming the face.

?

I really wanted you and Mark to come up with something for the shoulder joint. A simple ball joint going into the shoulder area is fine with me, as Mark posted above. We will have to rig it so the shoulder part of the chest can flex so he can shrug.

If that's what we end up doing, I want the shoulder joints high enough to avoid the droopy shoulder look.

Jim




Now that you mention it, I see it, too.

Thanks,
Jim

It seems to me that the bolts on the side are a bit small.
They seemed perhaps more like ears in Bob's sketches.
Anyone know what I mean?

Edit: er... looking again it doesn't look like they would need to be made much bigger.

Lookin' Good!
Rodney

I should probably wait to see him animated, since the more experienced guys haven't mentioned it, but, what the heck. In some of the poses it looks to me like he has two mouths--an organic mouth overlaid by the tin jaw hinging at the ear. Sometimes, as in the round "Oh" type poses, it doesn't look (to me) like the tin jaw is part of his mouth.

Is animation convention broad enough that these are non-issues?

Looks great and just asking,
Curtis

Here's a version with a smaller jaw and chin.

Jim