I have changed this thread so that it only pertains to props for the workshop. I will be starting a new thread to cover the actual workshop modeling and review.

Send models to this email address:

kuklip-props@lowrestv.com


Howdy kids!

I don't know how this happened... I must have been drunk... or sleepy... or... Could it be all those image contest entries with a bazillion gizmos? Who knows.... anyway

Somehow I volunteered to do Ku-Klip's workshop for the TWO project last night.

So I immediately had a heart attack thinking about all the widgets that will need to be created.

That is where the wonderful, helpful and generous AM community will come in.

I have put together a rough batch of tool, gizmo, and widget images for reference that I found on the web that could be modeled and used in the workshop as set dressing. These models will not have to be...

...how do I put this without frightening the AD's on this project?...

...These models do not have to "perfect".... they should be low patch as possible since I expect there will eventually be a ton of stuff in this set... but... most of these items will not be prominent in the scene and most likely will not be directly interacted with.

This is a great opportunity to practice your mechanical modeling skills... AND possibly get to pause the DVD with friends and family and say...

"Look! Look! Right there! On the table... in the corner! I MADE THAT!"

Check out this link:

http://lowrestv.com/workshop_ref/

There are 3 sets of images. I would be requiring help with the two "tools" categories.

Most of these items relate to horological tools (clock, clock making and repair) but there are also tools for tinsmithing.

Take a look, let me know if you want to take a stab at something. Maybe you already have a poising tool, mandrel or a fusee cutter that you modeled and would like to share.

We need... anything and everything... pliers... tweezers... drill bits... things made of tin... anything that might be in a tinsmith or metal workers workshop environment.

If you make it... I can almost guarantee it will find a place somewhere in this set... can't say ALL the items will be seen... but I am sure I can stick some of the items in a drawer... or something... maybe in his pockets.



Vernon "!" Zehr

Great approach Vern. I might just make me one of those. I think people should say in this thread before they do start making anything.

Can you make use of this, Vern? I haven't modelled the sliding gear or the exterior door handle because there is an issue with the design which I was going to raise with Will. (Oops, that should be Alain). Currently the handle would prevent the door from opening fully as it would jam on the stone doorframe.

Oh, by the way, Vern, that is one very impressive reference site that you have put together and some of those tools take me back to my 'smithing' days.

Maybe Ku-Klip might find a set of calipers handy? They are nothing fancy.

Great calipers Hutch!

Doors
Yes... I was having some thoughts about the door myself.

I was thinking... the door on front should be... elaborate and fancy... really cool with wood and iron scroll work... maybe inlaid metal or tin... I have some pictures of several door styles with beautiful hinges and iron grates... and wood... the two styles combined would be very exciting.

The sliding "sub" door with the gears, I was thinking would still be used... but it could be used later when entering the actual foundry or work area.

I would think that Ku-Klip would not want such an intimidating door at the front of his house.

These are just some ideas. I could go either way.

Hold on to the door for now.
I need to figure out where all this stuff gets sent so I can use it... I have truckloads of mail space but just need to make a special mailbox account for delivery.... in the meantime...

...To anyone joining in the madness, post here what kind of thing you would like to make from the list... or something you thought up... or if you just want to make a gear... or a clock wheel.

Although... I am not concerned about duplication TOO much... except for some of those complex items...

You know... there are like 50 different designs for a lot of that stuff... crazy clock makers would build their own tools... so... feel free to be creative in the interpretation.

Even making gears or those clock wheels with an interesting internal structure.... little knobs and handles...

All of those little things could be "Frankensteined" together to make other things.

If we get a collection of wheels gears handles etc... like tinker-toys.

Going to need furniture too I suppose. Found a roll top clock makers bench... very fancy.

----------------

Modeling gears

Uh... considering the patch count on a gear with small teeth... will patch count be a problem?

I was thinking of modeling gears in "two" parts. Just the teeth... then a low patch disk. The teeth just sort of fit around it on the outer edge. Just an idea. It could be that the patch count won't be a problem... doesn't hurt to keep it in mind.

I suppose a displacement map might work for gear teeth... even a simple bump or alpha map would give the right effect on small stuff.

-------------

I am starting to really like the idea of a bunch of parts... and using these in an AM library so they can be used to build other things. When things get going.. I can zip up some gears and gizmos for everyone to use...

Vernon "!" Zehr

here are the original sketches... I couldn't find them on the forum... they seem to be missing. I also "shrunk" them a tad.
(I didn't do the sketches. Just to be clear.)

House Exterior
[attachmentid=9399]

House Interior
[attachmentid=9400]

Workshop Interior
Check out these photos for comparison to the sketch...
Photo of old foundry interior
Foundry interior with stairs
[attachmentid=9401]

Vern - 1 word:

Amazing !

The chair outside the house could be a rocking chair.

Vern,
Man, you must be a glutton for punishment.

I would like to volunteer to make the tinsmith's hammer. I will also take a pass at a ballpeen hammer and a regular claw hammer. I'll use the picture from your website as a model for the tinsmith's hammer and I will use hammers from home as references for the other two types.

I just thought of another item. I have a scratch awl at home that looks like it would be useful in a tinsmiths shop, I'll model that up as well.

Basic question, do you want them full scale? I will go on that basis and use my home hammers as references. Also, do you want progress posted to this thread or to new threads?

At your service!

Scott

Thanks dude! A new victim volunteer!

Scale doesn't matter. These things will not be rigged... they can be easily scaled for whatever use is needed. Some of the more complex items... I don't know yet how big they really are... so... it would be a guess anyway... I don't know exactly how "big" Ku-Klip is so.. scale not an issue... Ku-Klip only has a head at this point I think... so... he won't be using these tools for a while.

No textures are needed!

If you want to use simple surface attributes or groups for a visual reference... that would be fine. No need to create any metal... or rust materials or textures. I would expect that will happen later.

If you could just post a simple render and description in this thread... I have one place to go for updates and one place to see all the stuff. I will be providing a special email address shortly for sending model files to me.

--------------

Just a heads up... the workshop is HUGE. All you little helpers will save me from having to model all the details needed. I will be building the actual interior and exterior. It is those little gizmos I love to do so much that can take up the time.

I am sketching some ideas for my own reference and need to review the script again so I know how much needs to be done...

Vernon "!" Zehr

Send models to this email address:

kuklip-props@lowrestv.com

Vernon "!" Zehr

Hi, I would like to volunteer to help in mechanical modeling. I have not read the script and have only looked through the TWO threads a bit trying to figure out where I could help out.

My mechanical modeling examples can be seen on my web site gallery: Modeling Gallery. I would love to participate in this wonderful project.

Please advise.

Woohoo! Holy cow!

Wow! Nice examples on your site! You could probably handle anything needed. How much would you like to tackle?

Would you like to do a simple tool?

tongs

Or maybe.... something more complex like this:

Depthing tool jpeg

Anything you want.

Check the tool images at this link:

http://www.lowrestv.com/workshop_ref/

If anything strikes your fancy just let me know. I can almost guarantee that anything made and submitted will be used somewhere in the workshop set... I mean... this guy built the Tinman so we know he is a tinkerer. I want to have stuff all over the place... make it look like it is used.

Think of these as... non-speaking extras in the background of a movie... one of the orcs from LOTR... a stormtrooper from Star Wars... they aren't going to have "starring" rolls... but they will aid in creating a rich atmosphere.

These are going to be props... and this set needs a lot of unique items. Anything to do with antique clock making or repair...or metal working... tools whatever. Most of the examples I found probably just scratched the surface.

-------------------------
Also... any models that might be made of tin or iron or metal... that would be lying about in his workshop... a bicycle... iron grates... buckets... simple tin toys... lanterns... fences...

He works for a living and would have these things lying about. There is the big "reveal" as the characters walk through his shop... having a lot of these items would add reality to the set.

If you have anymore questions don't hesitate to ask here.

Vernon "!" Zehr

I bags this "rounding up tool".

Edit: Also, this guy needs a big magnifying glass on a stand. It would be a nice homage to Rustboy too.

".....Would you like to do a simple tool?
tongs
Or maybe.... something more complex like this:
Depthing tool jpeg
Anything you want....."



Ok Vern, I will take those on for starters!



I assume to build them at full scale (actual size) But if no dimensions are available, do I just approximate the scale? Do we need to texture map them, or just model them? I also assume that we want to keep the patch count low.
Thanks, This is going to be fun. I should have something posted soon.

Model at ACTUAL size--or as close as you can guess
Great start Vern, I like the ideas you have and the references. I'm glad everyone will have a chance to get involved.

Regarding front door, please stay with Alain's idea of a metal hatch, not a different type of door.

But Will! I already designed like... 50 new doors and they look so cool...

Just kidding... one metal hatch door on gear runners coming up... think I have one already...

Yo! Paul! I love that door!

No textures are needed at this point. I would assume this could become a bit of a nightmare down the road trying to keep track of all the different styles of materials for metal and stuff... from 50 different people...

Textures and materials will probably be specifically designed and adjusted for the lighting of any scene. I am sure that having a "signed off" batch of materials when the time comes would be more efficient.

So... no textures.

Low patch as possible... without... looking icky. I would prefer there not be any razor sharp corners... that always looks icky to me.

Vernon "!" Zehr

Hey Vern....here's my donation.

Cheers,

Eugene [attachmentid=9447]

Thanks Gene! You won't mind if I change the rubber on the handles?

If anyone plans to do anything from scratch keep in mind the residents of OZ probably wouldn't use rubber or plastic... of course... wood... ivory... bone... jade... ruby... leather... all could be imagined as a substitute. Most of this would be achieved during texturing and materials.

Here is something fascinating...

This poising tool uses RUBY on the clamps!!! Ruby! Just like.... the slippers!


Vernon "!" Zehr

I just found a prop I did a while back for a project I was working on.

All looking good so far. Good to see stuff being recycled too. I imagine Klu-Klip would use plain old screwdrivers and spanners too, no?

A very premature suggestion as to how you might manage the scene Vern:

Group the interior and exterior into seperate groups so that they can be easily turned off. If you're dealing with the inside, there's no reason to have the outside showing too. They could then be copy and pasted in to seperate chors if needed.

This is worth saying again:

No razor sharp/square/unrounded edges!

Here's a tutorial to help you quickly achieve good looking edges. It's all in the bias.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17593


PS Vern. There's a cool gem project on this very forum. Should be easy to find with a search.

As art director, Let me say that I do not agree with all of this beveling just for the rasterbating hell of it.
If a surface should BE sharp, then it is not going to be modeled soft. Tin, and sheet metal--sharp. you can cut yourself easily.
Economy of splines is something people get a feel for...sometimes too economical can create limitations when animating. Jim Talbot and I are going to review things, and make suggestions. Sometimes too much geometry and bevels make what SHOULD be a sharp edge, look like lumpy clay...

So If I tell you it looks too soft, lose the bevels. If someone other than the art director tells you to bevel everything in sight, then take it as a suggestion (like "go jump off that bridge!"), not as gospel.

I thought it went without saying that things that don't need to be bevelled shouldn't be bevelled. A bevel of 10% magnitude bias isn't quite "lumpy clay".

But for tools, I agree with Vern that when I see sharp edge in 3D it generally smacks of amature/couldn't be bothered.

I hate peaked corners and always bevel.... ALWAYS. I don't always add splinage to achieve this but at a minimum I lower the mag on the bias of a CP. I don't like to peak unless it is the inside of a corner... like ridges on a knob.

A cutting tool blade or the edge of some tin... yeah... horse of a different color...

I will of course look at each model provided here before I use it and make any changes that I feel are necessary.

I do have to push this around on my computer so....

Low splinage is critical!

I plan to create the scene of a busy hardworking tinsmith/clockmaker. There will be stuff everywhere.

When this is all done I assure you every prop in the scene will meet my standards first... then you can make changes. This is just to get a stockpile of interesting eye-candy to fill the scene... for when I get to that point. Most of these things will be small and not even seen close up... set dressing.

So... no bevels? Some bevels? Or should we wait and see how it actually looks first before deciding?

I've never heard of the "lumpy clay" associated with edge bevels. Can you explain?

What does "rasterbating" mean? Is this a technical term? Does it involve... looking at 3D magazines with a flashlight?

Vernon "!' Zehr

I understand, Ken. But there is a tendency to bevel the hell out of everything... I agree that a tiny magnitude is often the best way to get a softer edge, without increasing the amount of geometry. But I don't agree that not beveling is "amatuerish". It depends on how close you are going to get to the object in question, which in this case are background objects.

Trust me Will... when you see the results neither of us will complain too much, I promise. I will be "cutting corners" to get all the stuff in there I want to I am sure.

I would imagine also creating actions or poses for one type of simple tool so it could be reused without looking the same. I don't expect to have that many to choose from at the end of the day.

Early days yet.

I won't bevel the sub-atomic structure of the screws like I did in my DANDY DNA image... promise! That was really hard since AM only zooms in 1600%.

Okay volunteers! Be reasonable when considering the mighty bevel. Don't go overboard.... but don't cut your hands on those peaked edges either. Find a happy middle ground.



Vernon "!" Zehr

Do I need to get permission to work on the film? If so, who do I contact? Sorry for such a basic question. In another post it appeared that I needed an Art Director or Martin's seal of approval.

More "stuff" for the workshop...

Download zip file



Cutters

Small Roller

Small Sledgehammer

Tongs.



http://www.be3d.org/two_project/tongs.zip

jfirestine--consider yourself enslave..--hired! David Higgins is the project manager, and has a thread where you should list your props, so that you get your "props" when we're done.

Nice work Joseph! Keep it up. I'm working away on my monstrocity.

Thanks Ken! Thanks William! I will let David Higgins know asap.

Vern: Are we going so far as to not allow certain screw/bolt head types? Can we use phillips head screws or allen key type ones? Which I don't think were available in the early 1900's.

Also, I'm grouping my parts into groups such as Steel, Copper, Brass etc. That'll make it handy to just drop the appropriate material into them when the look of them are finalised.

Ken,

I don't think anything will be seen close enough to determine screw types.

One of my cousins is an "actress" in... Hollywood... I think I have seen the back of her head in Sister Act 2... and possibly she walked past real fast in an episode of Sienfeld... she may have been a nurse.

Anyway the point is... screw heads are up to you. Use whatever you like. I would even say only a suggestion of a screw head is necessary to keep patch count low lowish. I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about creating anything fancy in that respect.

The metal type organization is a good idea. That would be helpful. Although I suppose at the end of the day... picking the materials would be governed by the director's vision and how the shot is laid out...

...They moved my brother to the front row of the theater for Lincoln's murder scene in "Of Gods and Generals" because he had a better beard than then another unpaid extra...

... I think I saw the back of his head...

...uh... no... that scene was cut... or... it might have been Lincoln's wife...

Vernon "!" Zehr

Tin funnel


Oil Can 1


Updated link to all my model downloads and thumbnails

Joseph!

Yeeehaaa... mechanical model generator.

This is great.

I just created a HUGE "box" set to determine the "LOTR" scale of Ku-Klip's foundry... I put a teeny tiny man sized camera in there... good lord... need to find me some Orcs to make more stuff!

Vernon "!" Zehr

A rounding up tool.

Holy crap Ken, you whipped that sucker out pretty fast! It looks really good. How long did you spend on it?

Ken... that is so beautiful... it would have taken me a week to do that... more even...

Now imagine that siting amongst all the clutter of Ku-Klip's workshop... I get a little shiver.

When I started doing research on this... I realized these tools built by the craftsmen themselves were like small kinetic sculptures... form and function as art. I actually found a site that sells antique tools like this as art.


Vernon "!" Zehr

I'd say it took about 4-5 hours on and off (with a corrupted base I had to remake before Hash salvaged it). There's quite abit of repitition in it so that helped.....

I hope you're not expecting just me and Joseph to model all that clutter Vern!

If you have any preference on what to model next, let me know. I realize you're trying to put together an inventry of reusable parts....


Edit: Hmm....I just noticed some creasing on the back of the knobs. You might have a look at that Vern.

Vern it might be helpful it you would list the "clutter" you need. I could take on a couple of models. I would take me more than 4-5 hours but I could contribute here and there.

*edit - D'oh I just read your first post and see that you've covered this already. I guess I'll pick something and model it then.

..d

I dont mind being the "clutter modeler" I just want to be part of the project.

I have been Googling "blacksmiths" there is some cool equipment that they use too that would almost fit in with Ku-Klip's workshop. I'm still just modeling simple stuff to pepper the set with. I will start some larger more complicated equiment very soon...

Sweet model KEN!!!!! Come on man, we can tackle this!

I would like to help making some clutter

Just remember, before you build something let me know (it may have already been built). I'll try to publish a list of the props we have already.

Cheers

Review this thread. Anything built will be here. So far... we got an oil can funnel pliers hammers... uh... awl...rollers... rounding up tool... yes you read that right... a rounding up thingy...

A rounding up tool "squeezes" the outer "ring" of a clock by clamping it... whacking with a hammer... then rotating slightly... whacking again... until the gear has a larger diameter...

Those crazy clock makers...


There is other stuff needed that isn't really listed. I will create another list with suggestions for things like....

Bicycle
Lantern
Tin... Junk...
Interesting iron grates or doors.
etc...

Basically anything that might be made of metal or tin that could be lying about in a foundry or tinsmith.

be creative... artistic... it may be "junk" and only seen for a second or two, but it adds to the setting.

Vernon "!" Zehr

Here is a vise that attaches to the edge of a table.



zip file here

Poker anyone?



download zip

Tin Cup



Download zip file

Wow! Good work Joe. I haven't had a chance to do anything since. Keep it up. I'll join in again soon hopefully.

This is working better than I thought it would....


p.s. I need a new tin cup... I fell on it trying to avoid knocking over the rounding up tool after I tripped over the poker. I have stuff everywhere.



Vernon "!" Zehr