Rotoscope for Stian

Character Design

Just one question before I start. What kind of style is preferred? beveled edges or more "loose" splining?

ehh. one more. is the heart on the chest a door or is it going to be a decal?

The heart is a door. I picture "hidden hinges" on the inside, like a cabinet.

Use your own discretion on beveling--some places will need a "rolled edge", since he is fabricated from tin. but based on Alain's designs for Kuklips workshop, he may have some cast metal parts as well. We are rendering in HD resolution, so I'm thinking that the detail should be there for close-ups.

Here comes the first wip image. what I have done so far

btw on this project I have started to track the progress. I think it would be cool to se the splining from start to end

Cool movie. How is that done? Just a suggestion....probably too late now....but you might consider doing it with a "better" lighting/background setup. It would be great to show it on any website for TWO.

I'm guessing that he is screen capturing a choreography window (on one monitor) while modeling in a modeling window on another monitor.

That (or however you are doing it) is rather ingenious.

In other words: Too Cool!

Rodney

Put some spheres in place where those ball joints are, so that you can make the parts fit more tightly.
The armpit opening would be a circle, no gap between the thorax and that ball joint (well, a tiny gap for clearance). The torso/thorax piece will rotate from the center of the spherical joint at the abdomen, so the bottom edge should conform to that surface.
Without putting in those ball joints first, it will be next to impossible to get the other parts to fit.

Looking at my rotoscope, I see I didn't draw it as I envision it. I made this change in Photoshop:

Wow. The Tin Man certainly has, um... Oh, those are the hip sockets? Never mind.

Well, he did have a say in the proportions of his body. Ku Klip was a good friend. Ahem...back to the modeling.

update. The balls are dummies
Two questions:
-Are the arms going to be "human" shaped or just "cylindrical"?
-Sharpen (bevel) the edge around the shoulder?

The cylinder around the ball joint for the neck is a short collar, so it will only be as thick as the metal not solid.
Hard to tell from the angle, but the centerline of the chest looks like it needs to curve outward more coming into the belly.

I think rather than a bevel at the socket joint, a rolled edge might look better. It is hard to say at this point, just keep going with the basic form and we can figure it out later.

New update

and the progression video Thanks to Ken Heslip for the choreography

Is he going to be able to rotate his wrist?

yes

some updates

and some more

Will, I would like some reference drawings of the jaw, especially with the mouth open if that is possible. I'm also not sure how to deal with the wrist, should I separate the hand right behind the henge to make some sort of rotatable plate? Or will the wrist become more human (eg "movable flesh"?)

The wrist can stick out of the "sleeve" of the forearm, so that the wrist hinge is out of the cuff, with the hand. then the other end is inserted down the sleeve( where it would be concentric).

The holes that are modeled in the hinges--do you need that? Since the rivet fills that space, it seems that you only need to make those"disks" with the head of the rivet on the sides.
Right now the joints seem "loose", but I would like the fit to be tighter like a well engineered machine with clearances in the .000ths of an inch (not really that precise, but to LOOK that precise..)

The model looks good.

In principle, the wrist should also be able to tilt sideways. Right now, given the hinge placement, it will only be able to tilt forward and backward. That would require a universal joint.

Same thing with the ankle. It should also be able to tilt sideways and rotate around the leg axis.

And the shoulder joint, as it is now will be very limited in its movements. It would normally also require a universal joint or a ball joint plus be able to rotate around the arm axis. But in the case of the shoulder joint, since it is covered by a shell, it's movements can be better cheated.

But don't take my observations as directives. Will is the only art director on this model.

The arm is connected to a giant ball-joint, Yves. So I think that, although unconventional, it will have a full range of movement.
The wrist will be limited to 1-axis at the hand + 1-axis (Z axis of the forearm, as it rotates), unless as you suggest we put a ball-joint at the wrist. That might look better--to just have a sphere at the base of the hand, inserted into the end of the sleeve.

The limitations of movement at the foot joint...hmmm. personally I think that as long as the leg can rotate at the hip (which it can), that we can plant the foot on the ground. We can add some looseness to that joint to give it a little bit of play--as though Nick Chopper has just "worked it loose" over the years, by trying to move as he used to when made of flesh. But I feel that being made of tin and manufactured, he may have to live with some limitations....

you're welcome to ;P

I did use the ball joint principe on my robot Johnny6 go to the thread to see an animation, and that worked very well, and that was without applying rotation on the ball

btw. I've just made this universal joint. Use it as the wrist, and perhaps as the ankle?

No, I don't like that joint...I don't like all that open air, I want the pieces to fit tightly as I said before.

I would like to have this as the model that gets my John rig in it if that is OK.

Nice work by the way Agep.

In the design sketch it looks like a fat "piano" hinge. That is what I have in mind. Like the hinges on a door in your house, like that with a pin/rivet running through the axis.

The hinge you are showing is loose like a U-joint under your car

I don't really have any crits to give, I just want to tell you that I enjoy looking at the progress you're making, it just keeps getting better. Keep it up!

Just a thought... please ignore me as I am CRAZY....

The heart door on the chest is a fantastic idea... however... I am assuming this was an upgrade or customization. (like Chip Foose kidnapped him and fixed him up for a reality show or something)

Since when he was originally built... before meeting the wizard... he didn't have a heart... so... there wouldn't have been a heart shaped door...

Sorry for the interruption... I tend to analyze this stuff too much.

Great job so far!

Vernon "!" Zehr

I was just being sarcastic, Yves. It will work, trust me.

Latest update

and the wire. I'm not happy with the look of the feet for the moment, some tweaking to do I guess

Lovely door!

An observation: the upper leg looks much longer than the lower leg. It might be the angle or intended.

Looking good.

The heart-door should bow outwards more. with the sides curved steeply away, as though there was a large fillet around the edge going back to where the door meets the body.

The shapes of the metal at the joints seems a little soft looking--do you think you should peak the CPs running to the edges to make it sharper?

new update. Have started on the hand

On the original design image, it looks like one hand has a hint of 4 fingers (and thumb) while the other has 3 fingers. Three would be preferable from an animation and rigging standpoint.

I see a few rigging problems. There's no first knuckle on the hand (where the finger attaches) no side to side or up and down movement, ball joint perhaps. The other knuckles may prove difficult to rotate without hitting the other parts of the joint.

The hips will have limited movement (lifting the legs to the sides) the point of the thigh will hit the pelvis area (less angle on thigh, giving more of a V shape inbetween them). May not be too much of a problem.

The foot has no way to roll. You will not be able to keep the foot flat on a surface. Maybe the way you handled the wrist. Keep up the good work, it looks great.