Since someone is handling the Hyppogyraf I thought I'd tackle a generic Loon. This is where I am so far.

to critique these things, it is more important that you post shaded-wireframe. I see only ONE loon model as the template for all of them. Add head dress, feathers, different tatoos...

Man, it's been a couple months since I modeled a character. Starting with a totally round character shows me how rusty I am.

I know it's a little spline heavy, but I figure they are going to be deflated so it might be alright. I will be redoing the spline-heavy nose at some point though. And I'm not sure about the spline right in front of the arm hole.

Let me hear it.

Can you make those eyes distortable shapes that sit on the surface of the face, rather than being eyeballs? If you have seen the eyes on Victor Navones "Big bang" character, that is what I'm thinking of.
The surface properties of the Loons will be slightly transparent, like a balloon, so I don't think it would be good to have working eyeballs and eyelids. I think that we could get the expressiveness out of the shapes of the eyes.

Mouth a bit rounder, less like a normal mouth. Nose should be small diameter where it is attached to the head. Top of head should look like the end of a balloon where it is tied in a knot, but more oversized.

Be sure you model the arms and feet sticking out--more like the "King Bal" sketch. I'm not sure if we will use two bones for the legs--the "thigh" would originate closed to the middle, so It may be we just use a shinbone with the feet and toes attached.

I was wondering what was going to happen with those eyes, I'll get rid of the holes and make some eyes.

I made the mouth that large for generic purposes, but I'll make it smaller.

Yeah, I was pretty sure the nose wasn't going to be good. I'll change that.

The rest was planned on, just wanted to get your opinion so far on what I had .

Thanks.

Looking good so far--I just wanted to clarify what wouldn't be clear from the sketch

Yes, thanks. I have a feeling I'll be asking for your opinion alot. Clarify away.

Because I don't have the eyes attached anymore I re-did the head splinage to save on patches. Still haven't done the nose because I'm having a little trouble wit hit. I always suck at noses, no matter how simple .

A few questions:

1: Since the eyes are not attatched anymore should they have eyelids, or should a make them just black objects?

2: How many joints do you think I should put into the fingers? According to the picture it looks two at the most, but that doesn't make them very flexible.

3: Should I make the arms the length of the King's or of a generic Loon? Either way I'll make sure they're bendable .

As of this post, this is where I am. Wire-frames will be in the post below this one.

And here are the wires...

Jeff,
here are some alterations. The nose doesn't have to stitch into the face, the join will be covered in a "maori" tattoo. The eyes won't have lids, they will just distort to make the right shapes--see V. Navone's "Big Bang" character's eyes.
http://www.hash.com/users/navone/Media/Big...antHeadTest.mov

Legs shorter. You are looking essentially at the knee down--not the whole leg.
No chin, just fat round head.

Nice work so far!

The reason I gave him a chin was because by the the look of the King Bal's sketch, he has a chin. I thought I would make it with a chin and then for generic loons we could reshape it to get rid of it.

Either way I'm fine, just let me know again for sure before I get rid of that chin (of course I'll have back-ups ). I'll get working on it again. You ref should definately help with the nose. Thanks for the pointers.

that is supposed to be his "jowls", essentially the curve of his head where it meets the body. sorry it wasn't clear.

Ok, here's the newest version of the Loon. I modeled the nose as part of the face. I just like having things connected, but if you don't think it works let me know.

And here are the wires...

EDIT: You never answered two of my questions.

2: How many joints do you think I should put into the fingers? According to the picture it looks two at the most, but that doesn't make them very flexible.

3: Should I make the arms the length of the King's or of a generic Loon? Either way I'll make sure they're bendable .

Thanks

I'd say 3 bones in the finger, but we will weight them so that they bend like a balloon--not like a finger with knuckles. similar to the toes you have.
Can you make the lower leg a little more "swollen" looking. Keep in mind that these guys are just inflated characters.
I'm feeling that the legs need to be wider apart. I kind of picture their locomotion as bouncing and rolling, kicking their feet and arms, but that "walking" is not how they will move. So that standing might have to be as we might stand with our legs spread wide (wider than the doodle of the loons, more like the King Bal sketch).

I think the arms should be shorter, like the King Bal sketch. Maybe a compromise length between the two. What is important is that they aren't long enough to reach each other These are going to be some funny characters.

That's exactly how I pictured him moving, haha. They are going to be great when animated.

For now I will model the finger joints with only one spline (usually I would use three) we'll see if that look workable.

I'll see what I can do about the legs. It shouldn't be a problem, but it might be harder to keep the integrity of the "baloon" roundness. We'll see .

Ok. I Shortened the legs more, brought them closer to the sides, turned them some more, and thickened them.

Also added the beginnings of arms. I don't know if I should put any resolution to them, so left them like that.

And, once again, here are the wires...

nice work Jeff

Are they going to have a tied-off "outie" like a real balloon would have?

Not sure where it would go...

Thanks John.

The "tied- off outie", haha, is on top of the head in Will's designs so that's where is is on the model. I think putting in the bottom would be a little vulgar . Might have been hard to notice it on the top there.

Could be on the tummy where the belly button is.

He's coming on great. Good work!
In the book, there are "outies" all over their bodies where they have fallen and repaired themselves. If you're putting these in they'll probably have to be unconnected parts.

As Far as I know I am only making a generic Loon. So I am trying to keep it as round as possible with basic sizes. I was thinking of adding poses to it to change sizes of parts of it, but I think that will be the rigger's job. Will will have to let me know on that one .

My pc just crashed today and I had to go all the way back to hardware specs. I am now reloading all my programs so don't know if I'll be getting at the loon for today, or even tomorrow *sigh*.

Thanks for the comments Ken.

Looks great!
The variations between loons will be in size, facial tattoo, and feathers/accessories. So all of the loons will come from this one.

The only thing that I think bothers me right now is the size/shape of the eye. I think it might need to be a little smaller, and more neutral shape--less elongated, as though that sketch shows "angry" eyes. But the eyes could also angle up in the other direction and be "happy" eyes. So we may need to have the default in the model be more neutral (just a slight downward angle).

The "warts" described in the book(from previous perforation wounds), would be in the bump/normal map, not modeled.

Thanks WIll. I'll put some plain "circle" type eyes, lathed with 8 cps. I'll stretch them a little horizontally.

A couple more questions:

1: What should I do for the inside of the mouth? Right now I have it ending with just the lips.

2: So the total roundnedd is OK? Should I keep him totally round, or do you want him looking more like the profile of the warrior Loon?

Should be starting the hand -- and hopefully finishing it -- sometime today. Then it will be down to tweaks .

I like it the way you have it--the sketch was just a doodle on scratch paper (at work).

Ok, let me know what else needs to be done .

Here's the wires...

Great work, let's pass him to the riggers.
Meanwhile you can model King Bals head dress and 2 or 3 variations on feathers to hang from the topknot of the other loons. And Stick/spears with thorns lashed to the ends of them.

Great!

A few Questions:

1: Where do I send the file?

2: Should I send the mdl file or the prj file?

3: Should the feathers be hair or decaled?

I don't know the answer to the "where to send it" question. Maybe just post the model file here. Martin discussed getting some of the riggers that have been posting new rigs and setups involved with these characters to give them an opportunituy to "champion" their rig.

As for the feathers, I want to have them modeled with dynamic constraints to animate them.

double post

Just wondering....do these guys have teeth? They're going to have tongues though right? Helps with the speech and all.

Yeah, I was wondering that too. I think that was a question I asked awhile ago and forgot about. Right now he has nother on the inside of the mouth.

What to do, Will?

leave as is. just a mouth opening--keep in mind that these guys are going to be semi transparent... No insides to the mouth

Ok a few questions, again:

1: Do the feathers go all the way around the circlet? Are they of verying sizes, with the one in the middle being the largest?

2: Are these diamond shapes actual jewels or just a design in the circlet? If a design, should I model them in as flat pieces or will they be textured? Do these go all the way around the circlet?

3: Is the circlet of a uniform shape, or does it curve upwards in the middle?

I think that's about it for now.

How's this for a cookie-cut feather?

EDIT: Another Question; How are the feathers tied around the tie-off of the warrior loons?

Probably varying lengths of feathers, variable cookie-cuts, variable widths...
they go all the way around. patterns on circlet can be textures. Circlet higher in front.
Feathers lashed to topknot with string(vine?)

Jeff, can you post the .mdl file here? The riggers are standing by

Sorry for taking so long to post this. Posted as a zip file with porcelain material, because it definately needs it.

Edit: Am I going to be applying the cookie-cut maps? I thought that would be the texturers?

Right, sorry. that will be the texturers. just vary the sizes.

Perhaps feathers could even be made out of hair? Coincidentally I've been playing with feathers for a character I'm making - so here's a stylized example of feathers: (I'll remove this post if it's inappropriate)

Here's the circlet so far. I didn't do anything with the feathes, but stick them in there. I figured if they were going to be posed that would be the riggers and animators jobs.

Questions:

1: Too many feathers?

2: Should I model something that the feathers are actually sticking intoon the backside of the circlet?

Wire...

Just thinking aloud....if these are going to be cookie cut images, it would probably be easier to duplicate them after the map is applied. In other words, it's going to be tedious to cookie cut them all like that. It's coming on great btw.

I was thinking that myself, but if Will says that's too many feathers it might be alright to just copy them and decal later. Also, he wants all the feathers to look totally different. Of course you could always replace the image...

Here's a pic of the Feather tie-on. Pretty simple as of now. Just a "bead" with a piece of "twine" put into and around the baloon outie. THe twine is just a simple tube. If you need it fancier, let me know.