I've done some tests with the new normal map feature in A:M v12.
To make my life a little bit easier, I have programmed a very simple texture plugin that produces Normal Maps from A:M geometry.
This clip shows some of the capabilities of normal maps: (Note. The only geometry in this clip is a four point patch)
Full Version: Normal Map Experiments
Hash, Inc. Forums > Technical Direction and Development (Learning Animation:Master) > A:M Rendering, Compositing and Special Effects > Materials Laboratory
If anyone wants to play with normal maps, this plugin might be useful 
As always with your stuff.. WOW!
Phil
Phil
This looks great aaver. Can you explain a little on how to setup and use it?
Ok, I'm stupid..
How do you use this?
<edit> Ahh, helps to put it in the correct folder..
Phil
How do you use this?
<edit> Ahh, helps to put it in the correct folder..
Phil
Is that an animated normal map?
| QUOTE (robcat2075 @ Jul 30 2005, 09:07 PM) |
| Is that an animated normal map? |
Yes, it is.
And sorry for not explaining more. I'm on the run
Later though...
Aha! Now we're sucking diesel! This is going to be perfect for my next TWO prop....as soon as I get v12. Thanks Anders!
This is great! Normal Maps are huge now in video games and film work. It's great to see it working in Animation Master. Kudos Aaver! This will open up a whole new world of detail we can now add to our characters and environments.
Frank Silas
http://www.franksilas.com
Frank Silas
http://www.franksilas.com
Awesome!
I am stupid, I admit!
how do you use this?
Drvarceto
how do you use this?
Drvarceto
How to us it - the very short version:
Building a Normal Map Image
*Default settings:
Note. This plugin works in v11.1 and v12.0, but the normal maps can only be used in v12.0
Building a Normal Map Image
- Download & Install
- Download MakeNormalMap001.zip to your computer and unzip it
- Place the MakeNormalMap001.atx file in the Textures directory (e.g. C:\Program Files\Hash Inc\V11.1\Textures\)
- Start A:M
- Build a Model
- Build a Normal Map Material
- Right-click the Materials Folder..
- .. and select New | Material
- Right-click the Attribute icon..
- .. and select Change Type To | Plugin | aaver | MakeNormalMap(v0.0.1)
- Keep the default settings* (This may be subject to change in future A:M versions)
- Drag & drop the new material on your Model
- Render the Normal Map Image to a file (e.g. NM01.tga)
- Open A:M v12.0 (If you have not already)
- Build a simple four patch model
- Apply a Normal Map Decal
- Right-click the Images Folder,..
- .. select Import | Image/Animation..
- .. and locate your Normal Map Image(e.g. NM01.tga)
- Drag & drop the Image on your simple model..
- ..select (o)Decal and click [OK]
- Position the decal..
- Right-click the Decal and select Apply
- Right-click the Decal again and select Stop Positioning
- Under your Model in PWS..
- ..go to Decals | NM011 | Images | NM01 and change type from Color to Normal
- Set up Lighting
- Render!
*Default settings:
- Positive X axis: ON
- Positive Y axis: OFF
- Positive Z axis: ON
- Using Z axis: OFF
Note. This plugin works in v11.1 and v12.0, but the normal maps can only be used in v12.0
Thanks Aaver for the explanation.
Aaver,
Wow love the plug in! Thanks i rendered this out out on v12 net render and it works perfectly. This took less than 10 minutes to do.
normal plug in test
Do you have any rendered samples of this plug in at work on complex 3d surface models that you could show us?
Wow love the plug in! Thanks i rendered this out out on v12 net render and it works perfectly. This took less than 10 minutes to do.
normal plug in test
Do you have any rendered samples of this plug in at work on complex 3d surface models that you could show us?
Great Job Aaver! As always!
Just my first contribution to the plug-in FAQ, to avoid distracted users (like me) lose so much time.
--------------------FAQ:
Q. My model is not rendering as a normal map! Is it Aaver's fault?
A. No, it's YOUR fault. Remove all material settings and decals from your geometry. Leave it BLANK, you brainless.
---------------------
Thanks Aaver!
Just my first contribution to the plug-in FAQ, to avoid distracted users (like me) lose so much time.
--------------------FAQ:
Q. My model is not rendering as a normal map! Is it Aaver's fault?
A. No, it's YOUR fault. Remove all material settings and decals from your geometry. Leave it BLANK, you brainless.
---------------------
Thanks Aaver!
Hmmm - i got an idea on how could be programmed a Normal Map texture generator (to be used around an equivalent low-patch model), but I doubt I would be able to code it.
Do you think this workflow is viable for a plugin?
1. You would need a SIMPLE low patch model, and DECAL it properly with UV coords in a clean decal (with no overlapping)
2. Place another model, a HIGH patch one, positioned matching the LOW model.
3. In the decal blank image, process the image 'pixels' or 'samples', (for instance, 256x256)
- find the pixel's position in the 3D space, in the LOW model.
- find the models' normal at that point of the patch. Project the normal to HIT the closest surface from the HIGH model. (*note that it could be a little behind or in front of the LOW surface)
- find the difference between the normal and the HIGH surface normal, and paint the pixel accordingly.
Do you think this workflow is viable for a plugin?
1. You would need a SIMPLE low patch model, and DECAL it properly with UV coords in a clean decal (with no overlapping)
2. Place another model, a HIGH patch one, positioned matching the LOW model.
3. In the decal blank image, process the image 'pixels' or 'samples', (for instance, 256x256)
- find the pixel's position in the 3D space, in the LOW model.
- find the models' normal at that point of the patch. Project the normal to HIT the closest surface from the HIGH model. (*note that it could be a little behind or in front of the LOW surface)
- find the difference between the normal and the HIGH surface normal, and paint the pixel accordingly.
Is there anyway to get this to work with 11.1?
Mini tutorial: cheap bricks
1. Build some bricks
2. Apply Aaver's MakeNormalMap material to the bricks
3. Render in front view
4. Create a seamless tile in photoshop (tip: use effect->Offset)
5. Build any geometry, and Add Image to the group (patch image)
6. Some patches are textured the wrong direction. Select and correct this
with Rotate Images.
7. Change the patch image from Color to Normal,
set up lights and render.
If you want it less simple, try adding some scratches to the bricks, adding a bump map to the bricks before step 3
1. Build some bricks
2. Apply Aaver's MakeNormalMap material to the bricks
3. Render in front view
4. Create a seamless tile in photoshop (tip: use effect->Offset)
5. Build any geometry, and Add Image to the group (patch image)
6. Some patches are textured the wrong direction. Select and correct this
with Rotate Images.
7. Change the patch image from Color to Normal,
set up lights and render.
If you want it less simple, try adding some scratches to the bricks, adding a bump map to the bricks before step 3
Zaryin: Think this is V12 only 
I need to upgrade!
Nixie
I need to upgrade! Nixie
That looks great Emilio. I have to upgrade now too!!! One thing I notice is in the last image, the tops of the bricks are bright even though they "can't see" the lightsource.
I can't use it yet, but I wonder....
If you have a bump map on your model before you apply the "normal map material" will that show up in the normal render? Or does it have to be actual geometry.
If you have a bump map on your model before you apply the "normal map material" will that show up in the normal render? Or does it have to be actual geometry.
| QUOTE (KenH @ Aug 19 2005, 01:06 PM) |
| That looks great Emilio. I have to upgrade now too!!! One thing I notice is in the last image, the tops of the bricks are bright even though they "can't see" the lightsource. |
Thats by design. Normal maps doesn't add geometry. It just changes the surface normal.
Think of Normal Maps as Bump Maps on steroids.
| QUOTE (KenH @ Aug 19 2005, 01:17 PM) |
| [...]If you have a bump map on your model before you apply the "normal map material" will that show up in the normal render? Or does it have to be actual geometry. |
According to my own experience, bump map decals won't show up, but bump map materials will.
| QUOTE (aaver @ Aug 19 2005, 03:44 AM) | ||
According to my own experience, bump map decals won't show up, but bump map materials will. |
I tried adding a bump map to the bricks and it worked.
Or am i blatantly wrong?
Got it!!
Bump maps work fine with MULTIPASS! (when rendering the normal map image).
They don't work with the default ANTIALIAS. Hard to find out because I always use MP.
Bump maps work fine with MULTIPASS! (when rendering the normal map image).
They don't work with the default ANTIALIAS. Hard to find out because I always use MP.
I thought I remembered from awhile ago that Marcel posted a Projection map for Normal maps. So I looked and found it on my pc and got this to work in 11.1, hehe.
So I tested it with a pic I made with one of my characters and put it on a cube. I probably could have used a better pic and a better angle, but I can see how this could be pretty cool.
Here is the results...
Mov. is nearly a meg. Sorry about that not good with compression :S
So I tested it with a pic I made with one of my characters and put it on a cube. I probably could have used a better pic and a better angle, but I can see how this could be pretty cool.
Here is the results...
Mov. is nearly a meg. Sorry about that not good with compression :S
Can't stop screwin' around with this now, haha. Here's the same normal map used on a cylinder with the Darktree Cave Wall texture.
I could see this being used for cave walls, wood engraving, even coins. Damn, this is cool.
I could see this being used for cave walls, wood engraving, even coins. Damn, this is cool.
I wanted to see if I could create a normal map from a real object. So I found a suitable test subject, an old rusty license plate.
here is very roughly the process I used:
I took about 12 photos of the license plate with soft diffuse lighting from the front of the license plate, making sure to eliminate as many shadows as I could. In photoshop I averaged these 12 photos to produce a close approximation a colormap.
then I proceeded with a very complex process involving about 16 more photos, which I took with various lighting conditions, and combined and combobulated in photoshop to produce this: (I may go into detail about this process if asked nicely )
I create an outline of the licenseplate, which I use to color the backgrounds of each of those two previous images, and also produce an adobe illustrator file, which I then import into A:M. Then I stamp my color map on, stamp my normal map on, and I get this
and attached is an animation.
here is very roughly the process I used:
I took about 12 photos of the license plate with soft diffuse lighting from the front of the license plate, making sure to eliminate as many shadows as I could. In photoshop I averaged these 12 photos to produce a close approximation a colormap.
then I proceeded with a very complex process involving about 16 more photos, which I took with various lighting conditions, and combined and combobulated in photoshop to produce this: (I may go into detail about this process if asked nicely
)I create an outline of the licenseplate, which I use to color the backgrounds of each of those two previous images, and also produce an adobe illustrator file, which I then import into A:M. Then I stamp my color map on, stamp my normal map on, and I get this
and attached is an animation.
Great stuff going on here. Zen: I think I saw a tutorial of that process online somewhere.
| QUOTE (KenH @ Aug 20 2005, 03:43 AM) |
| Great stuff going on here. Zen: I think I saw a tutorial of that process online somewhere. |
That's somewhat surprising considering I just invented it.
It must be a different method so....or else great minds *do* think alike. I'd be interested to see how you did it.
| QUOTE (KenH @ Aug 20 2005, 04:59 AM) |
| It must be a different method so....or else great minds *do* think alike. I'd be interested to see how you did it. |
It could be the same method, it could be different, I don't know. Alls I know is that I thought of it myself.
Here's how I did it:
I saw a website about normal maps which was attached to a tutorial on how to make them from geometry in cinema 4D. It showed the different channels of a normal map, and I noticed something.
They just looked like embossed images. Red is embossed with the "light source" coming from the right, green coming from thetop, and blue had light coming from the front.
So I figured I could take photos with strong light coming from the side, top, and front of an object and achieve a similar effect. BUT! I knew it wasn't going to be nearly that simple, as surface color, and the inherent unevenness of the light would defeat such a simple solution. Since if i'm having strong light coming from the top, and side, there's going to be a bright spot of light near the top and the side with rapid falloff, and this would distort the results of the normal map, along with the surface color.
So I went back to an earlier technique I had concieved for photographing artwork such that I correct the unevveness of the lighting of the artwork in photoshop. The technique also has the added advantage of color correction. It goes like this:
Photograph the artwork, then lay a sheet of white cardboard or paper over the top of it and photograph it again (using a tripod). Then in photoshop, put the photograph of the white card as a layer above the photograph of the artwork, invert it, and set it to color dodge. What this accomplishes, is that it neutralizes whatever unevvenness there is in the lighting (Shadows get dodged, the bright spots get left alone) and you're left with a perfect photo of your artwork.
I did the same thing here, I photographed with strong lighting from the top, then photographed a white sheet of paper, then photoed from the bottom, white sheet of paper, etc.. .for all 4 directions.
I Also took photos to produce a colormap, using the technique I mentioned earlier (averaging together many photos with soft lighting from slightly different angles)
So in photoshop, I lay the white sheet (the lighting plate) on top of each photo of the license plate, invert them and set the lighting plates to color dodge- correcting the unevvennes.
Then I lay the color map ontop of each one, invert, set opacity to 50%, and mode to linear light. This neutralizes the color and value of the surface, leaving only the lighting effects!
Then I desaturate each image (convert to greyscale) then to produce the red channel for my normal map, I invert the image with stong lighting from the left, and average with the image with strong lighting from the right. Then to produce the green channel I do the same with the top/bottom images.
Then to produce the blue channel, I duplicate the red and green channels to new images, run a a curves adjustment, with a curve which looks like an upside down V, such that the highlights of each image, turn dark, and the grey values turn white. Then I average the two images together, and I have my blue channel!
I put them all together into a single image and bah.. I'm looking at a normal map!
now I just need to work out a way to produce geometry from normal maps, and I'll have myself a full on digitizer for 3D objects!
Nice tip on the cardboard! BTW I found the tut I was referring to. Similar enough method.
http://66.70.170.53/Ryan/nrmphoto/nrmphoto.html
http://66.70.170.53/Ryan/nrmphoto/nrmphoto.html
thanks for the link. Personally I think my method is better, but that's probably just because I'm biased 
But that website does contain a displacement map utility, so now it's possible to create complete photoreal 3D geometry using only household items!
But that website does contain a displacement map utility, so now it's possible to create complete photoreal 3D geometry using only household items!
K, I'm frustrated! I thought V.12 takes an image and converts it to a normal map as a decal? If that's the case, why do we need a plugin to convert an image to a normal map before using it in AM?
QUOTE(Eric2575 @ Dec 29 2005, 04:26 AM) 
K, I'm frustrated! I thought V.12 takes an image and converts it to a normal map as a decal? If that's the case, why do we need a plugin to convert an image to a normal map before using it in AM?
Because you are not understanding.
An image in a decal can be used by A:M in several different ways, depending on what you select as the image TYPE. by default an image is set to COLOR when you first apply it as a decal or ADD IMAGE to an existing decal. Normally you use greyscale images to define things like specularity, reflectivity, bump, displacement,etc. Depending on what you choose for TYPE will determine how A:M interprets that image and uses it.
A normalmap uses the RGB channels of a color image to affect how the surface appears, instead of just a single channel(greyscale) image. to make the image to be used for a normalmap takes a bit of extra work--but so does painting an image to use for bump, displacement, specularity, etc.
You can use the Nvidea plug-in (a FILTER in photoshop) to generate a normalmap from a grayscale heightmap [what is white in the image is high. what is black in the image is low]. So it isn't too much trouble, and the plug-in is free. You can use Photoshop filters in other paint programs (check yours to see if you can).
When I use the normal plugin in photoshop, it turns any image into a blue-ish 3-D picture. I used a tire tread pattern I made and converted it into a normal map. In this thread: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19297&hl=
you can see how I applied it to the tire model, but it rendered blue. Yes, I made sure the decal type is set to normal, but still I get a blue-ish render? It seems pretty straight forward, but I am missing a step somewhere?
you can see how I applied it to the tire model, but it rendered blue. Yes, I made sure the decal type is set to normal, but still I get a blue-ish render? It seems pretty straight forward, but I am missing a step somewhere?
You are using the default choreography that has an orange rimlight and bluish fill lights. that is where the color is coming from...
Then why does the tire on the left look correct (straight bump map)? There is something wrong other than the lighting. Look at what's happening when I turn the normal % up.
No worries, I'm gonna figure this out.
No worries, I'm gonna figure this out.
QUOTE(Eric2575 @ Dec 30 2005, 12:51 AM)
Then why does the tire on the left look correct (straight bump map)? There is something wrong other than the lighting. Look at what's happening when I turn the normal % up.
No worries, I'm gonna figure this out.
No worries, I'm gonna figure this out.
What does your normal map look like?
Made the first image in Photoshop and used the NVIDIA filter to turn it into a Normal map. I just repeated the tire procedure from scratch and this time it worked. Don't know exactly what I did different, but it seems to work now.
hi aaver,
i love your plugin.
do you think itīs possible to modify it, so it can also render "velocity/motion vector"-images like described in this thread?
http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20708
i love your plugin.
do you think itīs possible to modify it, so it can also render "velocity/motion vector"-images like described in this thread?
http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20708
QUOTE(Willi @ Mar 9 2006, 12:13 AM)
hi aaver,
i love your plugin.
do you think itīs possible to modify it, so it can also render "velocity/motion vector"-images like described in this thread?
http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20708
i love your plugin.
do you think itīs possible to modify it, so it can also render "velocity/motion vector"-images like described in this thread?
http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20708
I'm glad you like it, but I'm afraid what you ask for is a totally different plugin.
The normal map plugin took less than an hour to develop and if the velocity/motion information was available from the SDK, it would be very easy to modify. I don't think that's the case, though.
A velocity map plugin is still possible to write, but it will take much more than an hour.
It says that it's unable to load the plugin. I'm using 12.0v or some letter like that, but it fails to load the texture! Is that a bug?
Just thought I'd post the location of the GIMP normalmap plugin for anyone interested...it's here.
QUOTE(teh1ghool @ Jul 24 2006, 09:42 AM)
It says that it's unable to load the plugin. I'm using 12.0v or some letter like that, but it fails to load the texture! Is that a bug?
I'm on version 12.0w and the plugin works there. When does it say that it's unable to load the plugin?
QUOTE(itsjustme @ Jul 24 2006, 11:20 AM)
Just thought I'd post the location of the GIMP normalmap plugin for anyone interested...it's here.
I'm not very familiar with that plugin, but as I understand it, the GIMP plugin transforms 8 bit bump maps to normal maps. If that's the case, I would recommend using the A:M plugin when that is possible since it's much more accurate.
It says it when I open A:M when it tries to load plugins(first tihing).
QUOTE(teh1ghool @ Jul 24 2006, 09:33 PM)
It says it when I open A:M when it tries to load plugins(first tihing).
Download the latest version 12.0 if you haven't already. If it still doesn't work, what exactly does the error message say?
I said I have the latest version. Or at least I tried to. 
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