If you would like to participate in the TWO movie project in a substanial way, then here's an opportunity.
We (the Art Directors) are looking for modelers to create plants, such as ivy, ferns, saplings, trees (maple, oak, etc.), tree stumps, flowers, and so on.
We are also looking for non-plant landscape elements, like boulders, rocks, groups of stones, etc.
We want to keep the style of the landscape fairly realistic, like in Shrek. That way many people can contribute without a clash in stylization of the models.
It would be best if this thread was only posted to when you have a sample to show, so viewing all the submissions would be easier. We would ask that you post an image of your model, instead of the actual model, for quicker review.
Thanks!
Looking forward to your creations,
Jim
Full Version: Call for Models....Plants/Landscape items
Hash, Inc. Forums > Featured > Feature Films: Tin Woodman of Oz - Scarecrow of Oz > Tin Woodman of Oz > TWO Modeling
Is there a weight limit on the geometry?
Cheers
Cheers
No hard rules, but try to keep it economical while still looking good.
Also, it might be best to leave the models untextured for now. We haven't even thought about how they will be textured. And we want the textures to look consistent, too.
Thanks,
Jim
Also, it might be best to leave the models untextured for now. We haven't even thought about how they will be textured. And we want the textures to look consistent, too.
Thanks,
Jim
You could always texture using the "Shrek" level of realism as a guide. We could always tweak the maps later, if needed.
You could use Hair to make leaves. We will probably use hair to create grass, and distant trees and bushes...
You could use Hair to make leaves. We will probably use hair to create grass, and distant trees and bushes...
Whoohoo! The wheels are starting to turn!
I'm going to start with a tulip plant. I'll put an image in this post when I'm done.
Is it alright to put in bones so that a pose can scale the leaves (and the leaves can blow in the wind) and maybe a pose to change the flower colour etc? Or would that use too much resources?
I'm going to start with a tulip plant. I'll put an image in this post when I'm done.
Is it alright to put in bones so that a pose can scale the leaves (and the leaves can blow in the wind) and maybe a pose to change the flower colour etc? Or would that use too much resources?
Those sound like good ideas Ken. Since the individual plants will be shortcuts in the choreography, it would probably conserve resources to have ways to make variations on the same plant.
This is the first I have heard of this TWO MOVIE deal with two of our big hitters of AM. Is this the first posting on this or is there another thread going into more detail on the projects?
Never mind I have found it. I have just started to read all that is on the board for OZ. Looks like a lot of idea people are jumping on board.
Depending on how you model them, trees could be a challenge to texture because of the number of branches and joints. I'd recommend making each "stick" of a branch a separate tube, and then assemble them to make complex branches simply by intersecting the butt end with the mesh of the part it branches from. No need to connect the meshes. The joints won't be perfectly natural, but by using similar texture at the joint it can look rather good. The texturing is much easer to handle this way, since the fundamental geometry is a simple cylinder.
This approach also has the advantage of letting you start with a hand full off basic elements you can then replicate (trunk, large branch, medium size branch, small branch, etc.). Very important if you want to build a realistic full grown tree in a reasonable amount of without a plug-in utility to do the work for you.
Leaves are another challenge if you want something realistic, though hair should make it much easier. The trick is that the leaf clusters are several layers thick...more like a cloud of particles. Two or three separate overlapping surfaces might do the trick, with the leaves just sparse enough on each layer for the lower layers to peek through. This will take a few tries perhaps to get it right.
Bill Gaylord
This approach also has the advantage of letting you start with a hand full off basic elements you can then replicate (trunk, large branch, medium size branch, small branch, etc.). Very important if you want to build a realistic full grown tree in a reasonable amount of without a plug-in utility to do the work for you.
Leaves are another challenge if you want something realistic, though hair should make it much easier. The trick is that the leaf clusters are several layers thick...more like a cloud of particles. Two or three separate overlapping surfaces might do the trick, with the leaves just sparse enough on each layer for the lower layers to peek through. This will take a few tries perhaps to get it right.
Bill Gaylord
Thanks Rodger! I'll be using that.
PS Anyone know a good "hair leaf" tutorial?
PS Anyone know a good "hair leaf" tutorial?
Don't forget to model to scale!
Absolutely! Model items in real-world diminsions, so that everything works together in production.
Here's my "Uber Tulip" 
It scales/bows/angles each individual leaves....changes colours....opens bud etc. There aren't any materials on it(except for roughness and others in the groups). It might need some. But I'd like to pose transparency so that leaves and petals can disappear. Can't get it working though.
Now if we could only get a plugin that would automatically randomly adjust all the sliders on the shortcuts to the model we'd be set.
It scales/bows/angles each individual leaves....changes colours....opens bud etc. There aren't any materials on it(except for roughness and others in the groups). It might need some. But I'd like to pose transparency so that leaves and petals can disappear. Can't get it working though.Now if we could only get a plugin that would automatically randomly adjust all the sliders on the shortcuts to the model we'd be set.
Very nice, Ken! Good animation, too. One thing - it didn't look like there were any stamens in the center of the tulip. Maybe you could add some. Otherwise, it looked great!
| QUOTE (PixelDust @ Jun 27 2005, 08:47 PM) |
| Maybe you could add some. Otherwise, it looked great! |
Thanks Cindy. I don't have any pictures of an open tulip!
Stamens...they're those long things in the middle right? I can add them no problem. Good spot.
Yep, that's correct - stamens are the long things in the middle. I think I have a photo of an open tulip at home - I'll check on that later and post it if you need it for reference.
| QUOTE |
| Now if we could only get a plugin that would automatically randomly adjust all the sliders on the shortcuts to the model we'd be set. wink.gif |
Seems like that could be accomplished with an expression. The trick would be insuring that it only placed the objects in the first frame and they stayed in place thereafter. I do stuff like this all the time in After effects. I'll take a crack at it in Hash if I get the chance.
Cool flower.
C
Thanks Cindy. If you have it handy it would be great. 
That would be cool if you could manage that Colin! I think it would save a lot of modeling! Thanks.
That would be cool if you could manage that Colin! I think it would save a lot of modeling! Thanks.
Colin, here's a model of that tulip in case you decide to get your programing hat on.
If I get time (going on tour with a drum corps - may or may not have a lot of free time), I may try using something from the silk tree trade. Ficus sets could be cut and fixed to do a lot. Similar to the linked tutorial. The leaves were in sets of three 'glued' to a plastic connector. The connectors were then snapped onto the branch sets.
When I would make trees, I would cut the sets into three for end branches and use the whole set for some main connectors (also used real trees that I shaped before starting.) Plug and play, baby!
I attached a rough diagram of what they look like (sort of)
OT - Secret tricks, bonsai tools for hidden cuts, a Dremel with a drill bit, glue all the sets to the sockets (they don't fall off), and use decorative rocks.
When I would make trees, I would cut the sets into three for end branches and use the whole set for some main connectors (also used real trees that I shaped before starting.) Plug and play, baby!
I attached a rough diagram of what they look like (sort of)
OT - Secret tricks, bonsai tools for hidden cuts, a Dremel with a drill bit, glue all the sets to the sockets (they don't fall off), and use decorative rocks.
Here is a first cut at using hair for leaf clusters. I layered three transparent curved surfaces and used a mint leaf image on the hair. The surfaces are spaced apart to lend depth to the cluster. Combed the hair to get the leaves to follow the surface more closely. Needs a bit of tweaking to get a more realistic look to it, but not a bad start. Long render times though!
Bill Gaylord
Bill Gaylord
Here is how I make leaf clusters for my growing tree animations. The leaves are simple 4 patch surfaces and the leaf stems are splines rendered as lines. This geometry allows you to give a nice 3D shape to the leaf. You can decal the surface with any leaf image (adjusting the width of the surface of course). Seems to render much faster than hair, but then, I haven't matched the total number of leaves yet to be sure.
Either way, we have at least two workable methods for building lush, realistic foliage we can use.
Bill Gaylord
Either way, we have at least two workable methods for building lush, realistic foliage we can use.
Bill Gaylord
Sweet work Bill. Any chance of posting a model so we can play and adapt it?
Nice work, Bill. I've got some very similar looking trees going on over here.
I'll probably be using some in my Oz image but will offer them all to the community project in a couple of weeks.
I'll probably be using some in my Oz image but will offer them all to the community project in a couple of weeks.
Well I took a stab at the expression. I could get the random position over time that was easy, but I cant get it to hold at the last position once the plants are moved. Anyone have ideas about this?
Expressions seem to be geared toward constant movement. I might be wrong about that, but I cant find a primer that covers the complete syntax for them.
Are therer storage variables availabe in expressions? if thats the case it would be the solution.
Any ideas guys?
C
Expressions seem to be geared toward constant movement. I might be wrong about that, but I cant find a primer that covers the complete syntax for them.
Are therer storage variables availabe in expressions? if thats the case it would be the solution.
Any ideas guys?
C
| QUOTE |
| ...Any chance of posting a model so we can play and adapt it? |
Yes. I'll package it as a project, so you can see the how the light settings and the hair settings relate. Paul will obviously have some similar contributions available soon.
If you can't wait, here is a basic recipe:
Make some meshes you can layer (in the geometric sense). Make them roughly dish or shield shaped with a gentle curvature. Use a fair number of patches, though, on each, since Paul discovered that too few patches amplifies the hair's sensitivity to the curvature of the surface. If a patch is too sharply curved the hair behaves oddly.
Make images: One for the meshes as a decal in "cookie cut" mode to make the mesh invisible and a leaf image with an alpha channel for the hair. The cookie cut image I used is a square (maybe 100x100pixels) Targa (tga) image, painted all white, with an all black alpha channel (a 32bit image). Select the whole mesh, right click (PC), and "Apply image". This will apply the image to each patch. Then in the PWS under the corresponding mesh click on the image shortcut and change the "type" to "cookie cutter". Turn off the property that adds the decal's color to the shadow...I can't remember what it's called.
Make your Hair material: Under Material create a new material and select Hair. You apply the leaf image to your Hair material. Adjust the hair width and length to match the proportions of the image (I used 10cm long by 5cm wide). I leave a little bow (~20% or less).
Apply the hair to your mesh and then tweak the settings in the original material under the Materials folder. Set the Face Camera to 0% (this does not completely turn it off for some reason in V11.1). Use the "hair brush" to brush the hair fairly flat against the mesh. Set the "cast shadows" on in the hair's properties.
Once you've prepared all three or so meshes, overlap them and space them out a bit from each other so you will have three or so layers of leaves.
Make sure you key light is set to cast shadows.
BTW, sometimes if you move or rotate a mesh with the hair applied the ends will stay stuck in place so the hair stretches in a wierd and alarming fashion. Hitting the space bar after you move or rotate it should clear the problem.
I've left out some of the details, but you'll probably figure them out by the time I check back in...Have fun!!
Bill Gaylord
When I modeled a tree a few months back, I created a NAMED GROUP called "buds" that was modeled at the end of each branch. This group is where I put my hair material, so that my leaves sprouted from the buds (as leaves do).
I think that where the tree is far enough away that you could get away with a cookie-cut canopy, you could more easily get away with a hair emitter that emits the entire tree. You just make the Length and thickness appropriate to your alpha-mapped tree image, and set the density VERY LOW... The "face camera" property in this case ensures that those distant trees look nice from every directon. This type of hair system could be applied to a terrain mesh and generate--instantly--a forest with various trees, shrubs, flowers, ground covers, etc.
So then you only need actual models of the plants that appear up close with the characters. The rest can be generated with the above method. You could even generate the images from renders of the tree models.
I think that where the tree is far enough away that you could get away with a cookie-cut canopy, you could more easily get away with a hair emitter that emits the entire tree. You just make the Length and thickness appropriate to your alpha-mapped tree image, and set the density VERY LOW... The "face camera" property in this case ensures that those distant trees look nice from every directon. This type of hair system could be applied to a terrain mesh and generate--instantly--a forest with various trees, shrubs, flowers, ground covers, etc.
So then you only need actual models of the plants that appear up close with the characters. The rest can be generated with the above method. You could even generate the images from renders of the tree models.
Actually to get realistically lush foliage up close, you'll need an awfull lot of twigs with emitters. Dense leaf clusters hide almost all of the twigs, even in fairly close up views, so I think this "dome" emitter approach might actually work well in both cases, and will likely save a lot of construction time.
Even better--use the emitter twigs where the coverage is sparse and the twigs are clearly visible and use the "dome" approach for the really dense areas where the twigs are not visible. That will probably be the optimum approach.
I'll make one that can be checked out from any view as an example. I'll set up photos of real trees for reference on one of my web sites.
Bill Gaylord
Even better--use the emitter twigs where the coverage is sparse and the twigs are clearly visible and use the "dome" approach for the really dense areas where the twigs are not visible. That will probably be the optimum approach.
I'll make one that can be checked out from any view as an example. I'll set up photos of real trees for reference on one of my web sites.
Bill Gaylord
Ken, here's that tulip pic I promised. Sorry I couldn't post it last night due to phone problems. (Still on cruddy dial-up...)
Thanks Cindy. I'll make the relevant adjustments.
The "Face Camera" property does not turn off at 0% as it should. The leaves twist to follow the camera, which looks rather bizzar when in a close view as you pass by a branch or tree. I've posted this issue on AM Reports. If it is not fixed, it could preclude using hair for foliage in scenes where the camera tracks. Bummer, man! Hope the Hash folks can fix this soon.
Anybody trying this in v12?
Bill Gaylord
Anybody trying this in v12?
Bill Gaylord
Here's an example of attempting to make my tree in "YAT" thread more realistic (had to really restrain myself here). I changed the emitters, and the decals driving the diffuse colors to somewhat more natural tones...
compare this image to curlie-q purple emitters in :
http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...indpost&p=81489
(I prefer the purple tones - I would think Oz would have more fantasy landscapes)
compare this image to curlie-q purple emitters in :
http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showt...indpost&p=81489
(I prefer the purple tones - I would think Oz would have more fantasy landscapes)
flyaround tree
http://www.intercad-inc.com/nancy/Tinman/treefly.wmv
or for QT mov
http://www.intercad-inc.com/nancy/tree.htm
http://www.intercad-inc.com/nancy/Tinman/treefly.wmv
or for QT mov
http://www.intercad-inc.com/nancy/tree.htm
leaf emitter - density .01, length 10", width 10" , with shadows - render times 2:30 mins/frame for 320 x 240 (no dynamics)
Nice Nancy. I'm not sure I want to post this after yours.
The flowers are the same model with sliders. Trees can be set up with sliders also, but these aren't. I also have more.
The flowers are the same model with sliders. Trees can be set up with sliders also, but these aren't. I also have more.
Here's a movie of the flower.
They all look excellent. Nice work guys! I'm going to tackle a fern next. Should be easy.
Mark: Is that a material bark on the pine tree? It looks great. Also, how are the petals done in the movie one? Very realistic texture.
PS I looked at the Shrek DVD and apparently all those trees were "procedurally grown"! All 27,000 of them.
Mark: Is that a material bark on the pine tree? It looks great. Also, how are the petals done in the movie one? Very realistic texture.
PS I looked at the Shrek DVD and apparently all those trees were "procedurally grown"! All 27,000 of them.
Nice work everyone! they are looking good
One 'Cookie-cut' fern.
An assortment of stones:
One Birch tree:
Hmm. Too smooth.
Hmm. Too smooth.
Maybe you could make a few more smaller"canopy" shapes, rather than trying to cover too much with one shape. 
Here's a (bit too green) hedgerow. It can morph into a longer/higher one and also a rounder type. I'd have done an animation, but even this little thing took ages to render. Not sure why.
Nice work guys!
Those are excellent stones, by the way.
One suggestion would be to not use saturated strong colors for things in nature. Try more muted subdues colors. In the movie they will be brought to life with the lighting.
Thanks for your speedy work!
Jim
Those are excellent stones, by the way.
One suggestion would be to not use saturated strong colors for things in nature. Try more muted subdues colors. In the movie they will be brought to life with the lighting.
Thanks for your speedy work!
Jim
Thanks Ken. Yes the bark is a material. If I add it a second time, I can use it as a bump material, I don't think I have it set this way for the image. The petals on the flower is hair with an image. All four of them have it, it's the same model. The model has a set of sliders to control length, thickness and color (have to add an attribute to the hair material to animate color of the petals) and growth. The flower is rigged and it follows a path to grow, so you could create poses for the path to get different shapes of the stem. The opening and closing of the petals is a pose of the hair guides.
Just as Jim says not too saturated.... 
I'll keep it in mind in future. This is a fly...not for close up....that could be buzzing round scarecrow. I hope it's ok to start doing the wildlife. I plan on doing:
Wasps/bees/nests
worms
Moths/butterflys/catterpillers
CROWS!!!!
beatles
Spiders/webs
etc.
I assume Oz has similar animals to earth....
BTW if anyone needs leaf images, I took a load of them today. Big images on an orange background for easy cut out.
I'll keep it in mind in future. This is a fly...not for close up....that could be buzzing round scarecrow. I hope it's ok to start doing the wildlife. I plan on doing:Wasps/bees/nests
worms
Moths/butterflys/catterpillers
CROWS!!!!
beatles
Spiders/webs
etc.
I assume Oz has similar animals to earth....
BTW if anyone needs leaf images, I took a load of them today. Big images on an orange background for easy cut out.
Hey Paul,
Fern looks cookie cut. Can you make each leaf on each frond different lengths so that each frond doesn't have such an even 'cut' outline.
Cheers
Fern looks cookie cut. Can you make each leaf on each frond different lengths so that each frond doesn't have such an even 'cut' outline.
Cheers
Here's an image I saw in AM:Stills. They'd be great in Klips workshop. There must be thousands of models out there ready made for the movie. I'm sure people would donate them if they knew about the project....
http://www.hash.com/stills/displayimage.ph...bum=22&pos=-732
http://www.hash.com/stills/displayimage.ph...bum=22&pos=-732
| QUOTE |
| Maybe you could make a few more smaller"canopy" shapes |
The attached example shows three canopies but it needs more and I think that they should all be closed shapes too.
| QUOTE |
| Can you make each leaf on each frond different lengths so that each frond doesn't have such an even 'cut' outline |
Well, the map needs some tweaking alright but I think I need more geometry. Personally, I feel that anything that will be shown in a close-up should be properly modelled and textured. I don't think that any of these examples of mine are suitable for close-ups. It depends on the shot though.
| QUOTE |
| Those are excellent stones, by the way. |
Thanks, Jim! The stones are simply decalled and a little roughness applied. They all have a thinnly disguised seam problem so you need to ensure that the seam is hidden from the camera. In most cases the seam is either at the bottom or not too obvious.
Ken, that's a cool looking fly.
Attached file : Silver Birch with three canopies. QT,(388 Kb), Sorenson 3.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.