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#1 zandoriastudios

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:37 AM

This world of Zandoria, with it's anthropomorphic animal characters is a big place...
As I build the characters for the story, in my mind I see an ever expanding library if sets, props, characters, backgrounds that I would like to see used for even more tales!
I am also very aware of my own limitations to bring this all to life myself... So here is what I'm thinking about:

I'm proposing the following: making these assets available to other artists/animators who would like to collaborate with me. My plan has been to distribute the Tar episodes freely on a youTube channel, and later compile them on a DVD or something...it is in my mind, a very long-term project, maybe even what may be my life's work. DVD might be obsolete--could be some other avenue...
By letting other animators or teams create stories, vignettes, etc all set in the same milieu, this "world" is something that can continue into the future. Conceivably there could be volumes of "Tar of Zandoria"-- much like the world of Robert E Howard's "Conan the Barbarian" has been continued and expanded.
I will keep creative control over the look, the designs, textures, etc and publish a Bible for the characters and world, that will help maintain cohesion between different collaborators. Since it is the same assets in Animation:Master , I believe we can make it all fit together.

Ok: so how do we get paid? I propose to sign an agreement with whoever is willing and able. 50% to Zandoria Studios, the rest split between the contributors. So like you produce a 5 minute story, and it's part of a compilation of 30 minutes you would have a 1/12th financial stake in the profits.
Or let's say you create clever T-Shirts using the characters: you pay back Zandoria Studios 1/2 of what you make.
Or you rapid-prototype collectibles and sell them , same deal.
Essentially we are co-creators.


Please post your thoughts, suggestions, concerns and level of interest in working with me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Edit 3/27/13]
Since I first posed this question, I decided to just try to raise the money for TAR on Kickstarter. On the collaboration discussion, what I'm thinking now is just making the characters and other assets available to the animation community under an open license after I am done with the stories that I want to tell.

#2 mtpeak2

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:49 AM

I could possibly help out when I can.
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#3 zandoriastudios

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:01 AM

And if 50% stake for the company is unreasonable (?) then what is reasonable? I put it out there (mainly thinking that it will help me maintain creative control) Maybe licensing % would be different for different things?

#4 Vertexspline

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:18 AM

Seems a reasonable and fair way of doing things William. And to clarify - since you seek total artistic control are you having any contributors only using your assets? I was not sure reading this and so figure any others might have similar question. Smiles
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#5 Rodney

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:22 AM

Will, You know I'm interested in working with you. I hesitate to commit because I know I will be moving back to the U.S. this year. Even if not able to commit fully I'm good for modeling props and doing the odd job here and there.
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#6 zandoriastudios

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:23 AM

I don't know how best to handle that [props, models, etc. modeled by others]...open to suggestions

#7 zandoriastudios

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:27 AM

Is the idea just crazy? I don't think I'm just the next crazy dreamer :)

#8 John Bigboote

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:35 AM

No. It's a sound idea. I hope it gathers momentum. It would be great if you gave us a glimpse into the 'crux' of the story... a little glimmer of the spark that will make Tar of Zandoria such a loveable character. I am interested.

#9 zandoriastudios

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 09:08 AM

Oh I will! But right now I'm thinking about more of a series pitch bible, with descriptions of the characters, motivations, setting to create a guide. The story I'm working on now, would serve as a model. But basically you could adapt any episodic fantasy story to the characters and milieu. Tales of Zatoichi, Conan, Kane, Kothar the Barbarian. All of those pulp novels seem to be stitched-together short stories and I have that as my inspiration. Like series television--just leave the main characters alive at the end! Maybe I will have to have two or three finished before it is clear...

#10 Vertexspline

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 10:32 AM

I would think that keeping the continuity of the look you want would get difficult with every and each contributor ----you would have to be extremely tough on ensuring folks were making models , props etc to your specifications which is going to make for some tough calls and rejections and revisions etc etc which would be needed but would make things tedious perhaps to the contributors. And what of voice etc ..the main characters would need a continuity there. Just hurdles not obstacles.
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#11 largento

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:35 PM

I hadn't really thought of it in this way, but Tar of Zandoria being anthropomorphic could tap into the large audience for that kind of thing. I don't know much about the "furry" fans, but they are a pretty large group.

#12 MMZ_TimeLord

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 12:55 PM

William, Since the original IP is yours, I would suggest that any additions to your resources are sent to you for approval. Sort of like a set director approval, etc. Once approved, then the resource could be put into the 'Bible' and others can utilize the same resources for their part of the story or side story. This will benefit those creating with you as well as you as the originator of the IP. Do you plan on keeping license of all the IP resources, yours and contributed? I would have no problem at all agreeing to that as you are offering a base for people to work in. Thoughts? By the way, I too am interested in helping with your story and props. I'm on Skype under mmz_timelord.
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#13 robcat2075

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:02 PM

I think you should get a small crew of people who know their sh*t and do a two-minute trailer. Not a ten minute trailer, a two minute trailer. Start out with that very narrow focus.

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#14 Rodney

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 03:32 PM

I think you should get a small crew of people who know their sh*t and do a two-minute trailer. Not a ten minute trailer, a two minute trailer. Start out with that very narrow focus.


This is a good suggestion. Spend as much time as needed to really work the heck out of that two minute sequence and you'll not only have you cut your teeth on a quality two minute trailer, you'll have an experienced team. The trailer could also be a good way to test out some of the highlights and settings that will be seen in the actual series. Perhaps the trailer could even be one that is shown before each episode to bring new viewers up to speed.
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#15 largento

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:50 PM

If you're going for the internet audience, I think you should keep episodes very short. Definitely less than ten minutes. I'm thinking 5-7 is a good length. Folks have short attention spans. I'd shoot for 5 minute episodes and make them episodic (to be continued!) Myself, I'm going to do five episode "seasons" or series. I'll run the episodes weekly, but then take off for a few weeks between series. My thinking is that 25 minutes is the bare minimum running time I'd feel comfortable selling as a DVD. I'm going to finish the five episodes before launch, to give me a buffer. The three weeks between series will be "bonus buffer." :-) I'm thinking of the floppies-to-trade model that comics have. Regular DVDs with the individual series on them and collection DVDs with more content (and a higher price.) Is Tar of Zandoria going to still have nudity? I hate to say it, but a few topless hyena princesses will probably guarantee you more viewers. I don't know what YouTube's policy is on animated nudity, though.

#16 Rodney

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:58 PM

Is Tar of Zandoria going to still have nudity? I hate to say it, but a few topless hyena princesses will probably guarantee you more viewers. I don't know what YouTube's policy is on animated nudity, though.


I'm glad you hate to say that. ;)

Having seen some of Will's previous Tar comics material I'm a bit apprehensive on what the final content could be.
If of that order I would respectfully decline from working on those scenes in lieu of something more agreeable to me.
My primary concern being that while adult movies may make more money they are niche products with little value to me personally.
Barring a personal story that just has to be told I don't see much sense in adversely limiting access to Tar's story.

This isn't to say content can't created for mature audiences but every time we get too graphic we limit accessibility.
As silly as it sounds, as soon as you bare one breast in a movie there is a domino effect that will play out on the whole thing.
Heck, lots of people do that to sell things.

For my part the whole idea of mature themes is of interest to me. I've delved into the idea peripherally and many years ago I thought I would specifically target it with a project I called "Graphic Violence". The project will likely never see the light of day because of how it explores these so called 'mature' themes but filtered through my own sensibilities of hyper-conservativism. This pretty much guarantees the project will not be made because it would require full attention from me to make sure it didn't escape the bounds of it's own integrity. Because of the commitment I know the project would take, it remains a very peripheral fascination for me.

I'm not suggesting "Hey Kids, it's playtime with Tar!" with all the eight year old kids grabbing their Tar action figure and stabbing teddybears with their flexi-swords... I suppose that's the other extreme. In order to get to that point Will would have to do some serious Tar revisioning. ;)

Ulimately, what is in a story should be there because it is intrinsic to the story; something important would be lost and the story wouldn't work well without it. It won't ring true (and be true to itself) if it is just a gimmick. Within that framework there is a lot of room for exploring mature themes.
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#17 zandoriastudios

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 08:53 PM

Maybe some bare-breasted birds...but don't you see the potential for satire and allegory? The style is much more funny-animal, Kung fu Panda than the earlier Heavy-Metal thing I was trying with airbrush. I am a little older now, so I think less shock value--however I think ultra-violent geysers of blood like an old samurai movie will be hilarious in this style! Jody, On the props and things like that, I will have to think about the best way. Probably that needs to be contracted out and payed for. At this point, I'm thinking about assets that I am already planning to build, and a way to open up the world to co-creators--who would share in the copyrights to the episodes they help create.

#18 largento

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 04:56 PM

So here's a case where a guy who does a "stick figure" webcomic for six years launches a Kickstarter campaign to get $58K to reprint his books and gets $238K in the first week!

That's the value in creating an audience!

Wow.

#19 Rodney

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:06 PM

So here's a case where a guy who does a "stick figure" webcomic for six years launches a Kickstarter campaign to get $58K to reprint his books and gets $238K in the first week!

That's the value in creating an audience!

Wow.


Now that is just refriggindiculous. :blink: :blink: :blink:


Sorry... back on topic.
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#20 HomeSlice

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:34 PM

I'll help.

#21 fae_alba

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

Will, how are you doing with this? I'm willing to jump in and help you out where ever I can. My strong suit is on the business management side, script writing etc. Could also do voice work in necessary. I'm willing to take the long view on compensation, looking more for creds more than anything else, though at some point cold hard cash never hurt! ;)

#22 zandoriastudios

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:21 AM

Just got back from honeymoon...Still settling in. This project is on my mind all the time, and figuring out how to break out from my day job and create an animation studio...I've seen several kickstarter campaigns that have raised enough money, that I think it could be a viable route to launch this. But that may not be the only approach to take.

#23 fae_alba

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 08:41 AM

Just got back from honeymoon...Still settling in. This project is on my mind all the time, and figuring out how to break out from my day job and create an animation studio...I've seen several kickstarter campaigns that have raised enough money, that I think it could be a viable route to launch this. But that may not be the only approach to take.


Married?? Well congratulations and welcome to the club!

I've given thought to the kickstarter idea myself, but it seems to get interest going there needs to be some niche that the project can fit into that would get it visibility. I'd love to use it to fund a pilot for tv network broadcast, that would be my end all be all.

#24 largento

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:26 PM

Congrats again, Will.

I'm sure you'll figure out a way. Pardon the pun, but you've got the will. :-)

I think sponsorship will definitely have to play a part. Tar isn't something you can knock out over a weekend. Kickstarter could definitely be one source, some local fundraising of some kind could be another. I guess the pie-in-the-sky option would be to get some sort of venture capital, but I have no idea how you go about that, and I've even heard that some of them charge *you* money to pitch ideas to them, which sounds criminal.

#25 MMZ_TimeLord

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

Yes, Congratulations William!! Noelle and I wish you two all the best. We are quickly approaching the Nine year mark! YAHOOO!!!! :D You just let me know how I can help and I'll do my best. Props, set modeling, animate scenes, etc. I may be able to write some, but I'd have to know the existing story setting to that point in order to take it somewhere. Unless you are doing a bunch of parallel story lines. Anyhoo... welcome back!
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#26 fae_alba

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

Noelle and I wish you two all the best. We are quickly approaching the Nine year mark! YAHOOO!!!! :D


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#27 TheSpleen

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:01 AM

Congrats! Life is good!
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#28 mtpeak2

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

Congratulations Will!!
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#29 itsjustme

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:21 PM

Congrats, Will!

#30 thejobe

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:13 PM

I love this idea! i dont know how much help ill be but you can always call me on if need props modeled or something along those lines. and congrats!
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#31 Dpendleton77

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:55 AM

I agree with the other guys when I say start a kickstarter. I think people will flock to Tar, I am looking at this and loving the idea behind a Hyborian age like series. I am just starting to use AM and will gladly help out when I up my skills in this program.
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#32 zandoriastudios

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:30 AM

Thinking about this further: I think 25% reserved for Zandoriastudios, not 50% as I first suggested... The idea is to keep the franchise going, and if other creators can come up with stories set in the world, then probably need to leave a cut for story.
25% story
25% technical direction
25% animation

hmmm... music, actors, sound design.... where does that come from?

20% story
5% actors
25% technical
20% animation
5% music, sounds

What are your ideas on budget? What breakdown was proposed for TWO and SO?

This world of Zandoria, with it's anthropomorphic animal characters is a big place...
As I build the characters for the story, in my mind I see an ever expanding library if sets, props, characters, backgrounds that I would like to see used for even more tales!
I am also very aware of my own limitations to bring this all to life myself... So here is what I'm thinking about:

I'm proposing the following: making these assets available to other artists/animators who would like to collaborate with me. My plan has been to distribute the Tar episodes freely on a youTube channel, and later compile them on a DVD or something...it is in my mind, a very long-term project, maybe even what may be my life's work. DVD might be obsolete--could be some other avenue...
By letting other animators or teams create stories, vignettes, etc all set in the same milieu, this "world" is something that can continue into the future. Conceivably there could be volumes of "Tar of Zandoria"-- much like the world of Robert E Howard's "Conan the Barbarian" has been continued and expanded.
I will keep creative control over the look, the designs, textures, etc and publish a Bible for the characters and world, that will help maintain cohesion between different collaborators. Since it is the same assets in Animation:Master , I believe we can make it all fit together.

Ok: so how do we get paid? I propose to sign an agreement with whoever is willing and able. 50% to Zandoria Studios, the rest split between the contributors. So like you produce a 5 minute story, and it's part of a compilation of 30 minutes you would have a 1/12th financial stake in the profits.
Or let's say you create clever T-Shirts using the characters: you pay back Zandoria Studios 1/2 of what you make.
Or you rapid-prototype collectibles and sell them , same deal.
Essentially we are co-creators.

Please post your thoughts, suggestions, concerns and level of interest in working with me.



#33 Dpendleton77

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:43 AM

I can't see any of the more experienced Modelers and animators turning this down it seems like a win for everyone involved.
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#34 largento

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 08:15 AM

Will, have you ever considered approaching Roy Thomas with this? I want to say he lives in South Carolina or some place like that now. He might be able to connect you with some like-minded folks who'd be interested in telling these kinds of tales. Heck, Roy might even be interested and then you'd have a pretty big name to use to attract others.

He's in his early 70s now, but he still does the occasional writing gig. You might be able to contact him through Two Morrows publishing.

#35 zandoriastudios

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

Been thinking more and more about making some kind of "open source license" for these characters, props, sets. I'm planning a Kickstarter that I hope will get some attention and fund some of it. It is keeping me awake at night :yay: I think the "behind the scenes" of the DVD will be the most appealing to the people who would back it--and having Tar and other characters and production files to play with will be a good pledge reward. I'm also thinking about using the forum the way we did with the Oz stuff, but not members only, to post files and in-process stuff, storyboards, etc. That would bring all of the advantages of the open source movement into the project--people might make improvements to the models and repost them. People could contribute at what ever level of interest they had, and become part of the credits. Compensation would be a share out of the production budget, or share in profits based on percentages for type of work. If I get funding, then I can put this plan into action without feeling like I'm looking for people to work for free...

#36 largento

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:34 PM

Will, there's no question that you have enormous talent and your work stands far and above most people. I hope you go for it (even if that mostly is because *I* want to see it!) I'm honestly not sure what you should do, but reading your comments, I wonder if your Kickstarter could go towards creating the infrastructure for a community Tar web series? In other words, a central hub where those who are interested in some aspect of it, could jump on board and be part of it ...plus a render farm for the community and maybe even A:M licenses for those who qualify. I was just reading about what was said at a panel on web series at SXSW, and they said that people like anthologies, but don't want to watch episode 6 of a 152-part series. They did say, though, on the internet, comedy is king. They also said that they had all tried to go the film festival route, but described it as trying to get your film approved by a panel of five so that it can be shown to 200. They preferred the immediacy of the web and the potential to reach millions of viewers. Of course, they also gave a statistic that every MINUTE, 72 HOURS of video is uploaded to YouTube! Talk about signal-to-noise ratio! If you could find some like-minded people, you could conceivably set up a system to have several episodes being produced over-lapping to allow for an actual series release schedule. The Kickstarter would be a step forward in that direction. I gotta' think people will be blown away by what you can show them. We all are!

#37 zandoriastudios

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:31 PM

Here is a preview link for the Tar of Zandoria Kickstarter: http://www.kickstart...?token=8f2a9771

I still have to create my video, which will be a montage with concept art, test animations, turn-arounds of the models and ME being all geeky and excited about this project (I think I will have to hold my conan sword while I'm talking!)

If anyone has some feedback, it will be appreciated. I'm planning to submit by April 1

#38 John Bigboote

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:56 AM

It looks great. Where- other than the limited A:M community, do you plan your foot-traffic to derive from?

#39 zandoriastudios

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:30 AM

Well, Facebook and email--hopefully people will spread the link. I'm considering a banner ad on Cartoon Brew but don't know if it is worth it...

#40 detbear

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:38 AM

William, No matter if your Kickstarter fund comes through or not, I would encourage you to finish that work man. Even if it takes you longer. My project took a whole bunch longer than I ever planned for. I came so close to quitting it several times. Don't give up on it....You can do it.

#41 markw

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:42 AM

Here is a preview link for the Tar of Zandoria Kickstarter: http://www.kickstart...?token=8f2a9771

I still have to create my video, which will be a montage with concept art, test animations, turn-arounds of the models and ME being all geeky and excited about this project (I think I will have to hold my conan sword while I'm talking!)

If anyone has some feedback, it will be appreciated. I'm planning to submit by April 1

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That one line on its own sold it to me ;)
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#42 zandoriastudios

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 10:04 AM

Awesome! That's my "elevator pitch" :)

#43 Kamikaze

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:09 PM

Love the idea and your style ...... if it has not already been mentioned, when working with percentages of profit sharing as originator keep 51 % minimum ...... a good guideline of prop makers, have conceptual art ..... If I'm decent at anything it would be mechanical modeling. that is if your still looking for prop makers...I'm not worried about the money making, tho never turn down if it happens............. I would be the type that would have to be lead in a direction, especially on someone elses project and would Not be hurt or insulted if rejected.......that's a part of life..... regardless, I'd like to see this project happen, I'd watch and probably would buy a Tee, \ Mike Cossey
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#44 higginsdj

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

Hope stuff won't be just limited to shipping within the US only........
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#45 zandoriastudios

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:25 PM

should I add something like +$5.00 for shipping outside the US? [edit] I added additional shipping for outside of US B)

#46 nino banano

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

Hi William, I think your project is worth any sacrifice, go ahead with it as always

#47 markw

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

should I add something like +$5.00 for shipping outside the US? [edit] I added additional shipping for outside of US B)

Good man ;)
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#48 Rodney

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

should I add something like +$5.00 for shipping outside the US? [edit] I added additional shipping for outside of US


You may want to research that.
I understand some folks have lost their shirts on kickstarter due to the high cost of shipping overseas.
The primary story I recall reading involved a successful kickstarter who had to go back to their supporters and change the terms of the deal afterwards.
The contributors were understanding but the folks running the kickstarter had stress they had hoped they would have avoided.
$5.00 will likely not be enough to ship to some overseas locations.
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#49 largento

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

A lot of people do $10. It depends on what you are shipping. For DVDs, it cost me less than $6 for first class to anywhere. But then you have the mailer, address labels, making several trips to the post office. Most of that cost goes into domestic, too.

#50 fae_alba

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:28 PM

should I add something like +$5.00 for shipping outside the US? [edit] I added additional shipping for outside of US B)


research airmail rates with usps..back when I was doing my magazine I lost me shirt shipping overseas..back then it was like $11 for printed media




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