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#1 RU2D4

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:19 PM

I think this image works to sell a bottle of something, what do you think? If you stare at it for more than 5 seconds, it might work in advertising?

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#2 robcat2075

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:45 PM

My next step would be to make a more meaningful pose on the character. What's in the bottle, and what is the character's relationship to it?

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#3 RU2D4

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:04 PM

The bottle is just there to show the image as a possible advertisement for a beverage, it can be replaced easily and was just thrown in at the end. I've got to do better bones on the lady model.

#4 Gerry

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:17 PM

I really like the look and the stylization! My main suggestion would be to either put a nicely modeled bottle of something 'real' in there, or a made-up product. Finish it! Imagine it's really a print ad for something. Then, the model needs a better pose, more involving, less manikin-like, but nothing hard-sell, just more evocative. It's a great start. That's my "go for it!" list. If you're not that motivated, shape the bottle better and call it done. But I could imagine a whole portfolio of pieces with this look. Depends on how motivated you are.
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#5 RU2D4

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:35 PM

Gerry, Thank you for the advice. Hopefully there can be a real product label on there someday.

#6 Rodney

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:58 PM

Nice WIP! There are a few obstacles that keep me from enjoying the image as much as believe I could: - Need a label on the bottle even if a made up brand (especially if you are selling something..... gotta have name recognition with that something) - Need a bit more contrast in the depth. The bottle appears to on a table but there is no clear indication of where that table ends. It can be assumed that it ends where the girls legs are cut off. - Symmetry. There is a lot of (too much?) symmetry in this image. While this could be transformed into an artistic strength it's got a little ways to go. If the theme is 'symmetry' then a lot of this will not apply but consider; symmetrical bottle, symmetrical room (slightly turned which is good!), symmetrical girl (her features are mirror images of each other), symmetrical pose. - Parallel lines should be avoided where possible. Unless you are going for 'tranquil' which is quite possible but the colors work against that somewhat. Parallel lines in man made things is the exception that is the rule but you want to avoid camera angles that accentuate those. - Constrast I. This equates to the idea of not knowing where the table ends. When all areas of an image present the same general contrast its hard to get any depth cues. There needs to be more contrast in order to understand what is in the front, middle and back of the image too. You do gain some of this through overlapping but this is a trick on the eye in a 2D image. We assume that with overlapping objects the one not obstructed is the one closer to you. Overlap is one of your strengths in this image. Nice work! - Contrast II. If everything is shiny its works against us in the audience and we lose focus. This appears to be an artistic choice so that's your choice to make so I won't speculate further. - Focus. I assume that the primary focus of the image is the bottle. As such all other parts of the image should be complementary to it. You are close here... so very close. Perhaps if everything wasn't equally shiny? Other thoughts: - The girls breasts seem to defy gravity. (look, I don't know the girl, you talk to her) - Crotch shot is not a recommended pose. (unless you are specifically going for that) - It would be nice to see (at least a little) through the bottle (not too much though or we lose a depth cue). All in all. Very nice image and my comments should not in any way detract from the enjoyment of it. I love the over all colors... they -almost- give us a sense of looking -through- a bottle. Added: In looking again something does occur to me. In a scene with so many reflective surfaces there is a distinct lack of reflections on those surfaces. For instance, shouldn't we be able to see the girl at least in a reflection on the table and in the bottle? I think I see some a reflection of the couch she is sitting on in the table but it can't be the couch because then we'd also see her.
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#7 RU2D4

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 12:36 PM

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll see if I can make some adjustments to show more contrast, get a better pose, avoid the "crotch shot", etc., and find a label... I suppose something gold that comes in a bottle? That would make the color scheme look more meaningful perhaps.

#8 John Bigboote

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 04:28 PM

Don't find a label... make your own label!

#9 RU2D4

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 05:56 PM

I like the way you think Bigboote, but I don't have a product to sell.

#10 robcat2075

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 10:08 PM

Other thoughts:
- The girls breasts seem to defy gravity. (look, I don't know the girl, you talk to her)

You mean this isn't natural?

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#11 John Bigboote

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 06:29 AM

Rob- I don't know what's projecting more... the Bell and Howell or the.... RU2D4- You have a degree in Civil Engineering?... doesn't EVERY city on Earth need Civil Engineers? (I thought so.) Sounds like you need a change of scenery- get to a new town- bring the stripper!

#12 RU2D4

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

For the last 3 years being a Civil Engineer is worse than trying to make it as an Underwater Basketweaver. I would like to help design a change of scenery!

#13 RU2D4

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 04:41 PM

Has anybody here done a comic book yet?

#14 RU2D4

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:03 PM

Here's another WIP that may be practical. The pneumatic train, the walkable city, etc., etc. Some of my ideas for the future.

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#15 robcat2075

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:52 PM

Has anybody here done a comic book yet?


Mark Largent (largento) has been doing a long running 3D comic strip but he says getting an audience to it has been very tough.

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#16 RU2D4

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 06:42 PM

I know this has to be as simple as flipping normals or something, but I'm getting a blemish when I render in real-time that disappears when I render in final mode.

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#17 robcat2075

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:12 PM

I know this has to be as simple as flipping normals or something, but I'm getting a blemish when I render in real-time that disappears when I render in final mode.


That is a normals thing.

SHIFT 1 will turn the normal pointers on and off so you can see.

Or you can turn off "Show back-facing patches" in your render options for shaded mode and see which ones are not pointing out.

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#18 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:20 PM

I think this image works to sell a bottle of something, what do you think? If you stare at it for more than 5 seconds, it must work in advertising, no? But where do you go from there?



Pardon me as I've joined this a bit late in the proceedings. I used to teach Art and Design up to degree level but please take any suggestions with the proverbial bag of salt.



If you want to develop the image to try for possible advertising work the questions are,

Are you showing your ability to generate your own concepts or your ability to produce towards those generated by the client. If you were applying to work at an agency you might want to show the former. If working for that agency then the latter. Are you generating the brief or working to it basically.

A project we used in the past was for the brand of Scotch Whiskey called "Black and Whyte". A brand that has not be seen ,at least over here in the UK, for some time.
Using the catchline "Only the name is Black and White"
The name implies clearcut valiues and tastes yet the product is more reknown for the suntleties of its taste.
If you were to illustrate that, how would you do it ?

How could your composition be adapted to fit that campaign? Would you want to illustrate the product in the foreground as with your image or in a setting to fit with the campaign theme. If you go with the theme how could you adapt it to different settings and what type of colour schemes would you employ? If you look at advertising critically, especially drinks advertising, you will notice that the choices of colour are very deliberate and subtle to fit the product brief. It might pay to try to replicate an example of that in your own use of colour ?

I haven't used it personally but, I understand that, there is a feature in Photoshop which allows you to match the colours of a source image into your own image ? If so, you could use that feature to analyse source material and then replicate those colours into your models then manipulate the material properties and the lighting in the choreograhphy to achieve the lighting look you require.

If you used a standard composition it would show your skills as an illustrator and master of your software, to then alter the mood and feel of it by manipulating the colour, lighting and textures in the scene?

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#19 RU2D4

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:04 PM

Thank you Simon, I copied your inquiry and will put consideration into it for a good response tomorrow. My initial reaction (just to be honest) is "I don't know", "whatever works", and things of that sort. After 15 years hobbying with A:M, I threw that choreography together and rendered it in about 45 minutes using models I already had developed. I found the fix to my real-time rendering blotches: R-click in model space... Refind Normals. Now she renders well enough in real-time to look interesting. Are Quicktime files allowed?

#20 Rodney

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

Are Quicktime files allowed?


Yes, Qucktime files are allowed/preferred.
You could upload an AVI if compressed as a .ZIP file (that'd be an extra step that might prevent some from accessing).

As for why AVIs are not accepted... I dunno. Perhaps they don't stream online very well.
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#21 RU2D4

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

"Are you showing your ability to generate your own concepts or your ability to produce towards those generated by the client. If you were applying to work at an agency you might want to show the former. If working for that agency then the latter. Are you generating the brief or working to it basically." I was thinking if a company wanted to use the image for a magazine ad, I could just put an image of their product in place of the existing bottle, and it wouldn't take long to finish, then if I could continue to produce images. I don't think an agency would hire me with my civil engineering background and no exprience with Adobe suite (that's all I ever see as a requirement for those jobs). My thought was "here it is" they can use it if you want to right away, and I'll keep trying to create more images that can sell for them. "A project we used in the past was for the brand of Scotch Whiskey called "Black and Whyte". A brand that has not be seen ,at least over here in the UK, for some time. Using the catchline "Only the name is Black and White" The name implies clearcut valiues and tastes yet the product is more reknown for the suntleties of its taste. If you were to illustrate that, how would you do it ?" I would need help with the other marketing aspects and such. "How could your composition be adapted to fit that campaign? Would you want to illustrate the product in the foreground as with your image or in a setting to fit with the campaign theme. If you go with the theme how could you adapt it to different settings and what type of colour schemes would you employ? If you look at advertising critically, especially drinks advertising, you will notice that the choices of colour are very deliberate and subtle to fit the product brief. It might pay to try to replicate an example of that in your own use of colour ?" Again, this is something I'd need help with, but if someone had suggestions I'd be open to try to accomplish them. "I haven't used it personally but, I understand that, there is a feature in Photoshop which allows you to match the colours of a source image into your own image ? If so, you could use that feature to analyse source material and then replicate those colours into your models then manipulate the material properties and the lighting in the choreograhphy to achieve the lighting look you require." For now I'd just be happy to see something get started, and I don't care about what gets done with work I've already done on my own accord in an attempt to see if it is marketable, so I suppose I'm selling on potential. "If you used a standard composition it would show your skills as an illustrator and master of your software, to then alter the mood and feel of it by manipulating the colour, lighting and textures in the scene?" I'm not sure what you mean by standard composition. I was thinking of using the same settings for reflectivity, diffuse, etc. I'm trying to find out if there's an interest first.

#22 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:32 AM

If you want to approach an agency to try for work as an a illustrator the question is usually, do you want to work in a particular style or across a range of styles. Most illustration is fairly anonymous. You can think of particular illustrators but that is not common, it is usually about the product being shown rather than the way it is being shown. Thats a bit of an over simplification but a general guide. If you want to do product illustration it might work to pick a couple of products and prepare models of those in a range of styles or high quality photo realistic renders. The image you posted might work in the classic print ad that shows the product and the scene depicts it in use. The sort of ad that used to be a staple of drink and cigarette adverts (?). In the example mentioned before, a standard composition might be the bottle in front, as with your image, and Vera in the scene enjoying its pleasures. The composition might stay the same but the individual details would vary with each ad. The clothes worn, the colours used, the lighhting, the furniture, the decor. Such ads tend to be aspirational in that they depict settings which people would want to be in with the product. The living room would be up market, comfortable rather than trailer home crowded to use an extreme contrast. The clothes too would reflect that style. Designer labels rather than the chain store stuff I wear. If you want to use Vera, could you kit her out in those kind of clothes to fit with the illustrations of the product ? If you are going to use a drinks related theme it would be as well to use a second character, simply because of the connotations of the lone drinker. ? regards simon
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#23 RU2D4

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:16 PM

This took only a few seconds to render and I'm not putting it up as something to show as a final product. Just to show whats coming out in real-time shaded mode. Simon, thank you for the input. I know if I were to find a career as an illustrator, it wouldn't be so glamorous as first thought. Now it sounds like work :o . I never used A:M with a career in mind, it was a hobby and an outlet.

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#24 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:21 AM

I guess I never asked the question on here: does it look good enough that it's worth pursuing? I know if I were to find a career as an illustrator, it wouldn't be so glamorous as first thought. Now it sounds like work << I don't want to sound trite here but, whatever you do its going to be work. I know nothing about civil engineering, the closest I get to it is insulating the garden shed so I can work in it. My guess would be that you went into that area because you enjoyed it and it was interesting to you but, it was still work and you had to apply yourself to it ? The same applies in Animation or illustration, or any other subject area. The old cliche/equation of 99% perspiration to 1% inspiration oversells the inspiration a bit but is a good guide. I would not try to discourage you or anyone else from pursuing it as an option, quite the opposite in fact but, to do it well and get paid for it is a LOT of work. I play the guitar and am moderately competent at it. If I'd put the work in years ago I might have been reasonable at it and even able to earn a little. However, its my hobby and I derive a great deal of pleasure from it, in my case the artwork takes precedence and thats were most of the time and effort goes. ( theres 10 guitars trying to distract me though ! ). regards simon Ps Have you seen the Pes animations on Youtube that he did for Bacardi ? Done with stop frame ( unless very much mistaken ). I don't know if he approached them or the other way around having seen his other work (?). My guess would be that it started off as a hobby for him but has developed into far more than that?
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#25 RU2D4

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

Yes, it's a different perspective if I try to find a job. I think I'll try to put together a better portfolio using some of the suggestions for an ad image you gave to show the ability to create something by a set of guidelines and instruction (work). Without Adobe experience, or any experience in advertising, I need something to show I think, and it has to be good enough to get them interested I'm thinking. The dancing and flashing color show with shiny spinning things and Vera dancing would probably remain the hobby, but then again, that might be what someone wants to see. I appreciate your input, it's given me a better idea of what to expect if I try to find work (in a different field). I'll look for the Pes animation on Youtube.

#26 John Bigboote

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:52 PM

RU2D4... you live in Vegas, right? Aren't there companies there that make the video slot machines? Seems like that would be a great place to look for work... I cruise the casinos and look for slot machines that feature cool animations... and then I look over whoevers shoulder that is playing the game until security arrives!

#27 RU2D4

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:48 PM

RU2D4... you live in Vegas, right? Aren't there companies there that make the video slot machines? Seems like that would be a great place to look for work... I cruise the casinos and look for slot machines that feature cool animations... and then I look over whoevers shoulder that is playing the game until security arrives!


I did 3 years ago but when the work slowed, I left. I'm near Cleveland, Ohio now. I think Vera dancing is the way to go. I see a lot of animation, but it's always light on the dancing. I was thinking similarly to your thoughts when I was living in Las Vegas.

#28 John Bigboote

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:59 AM

You have a point on the dancing. I did a sample for TrueBones using a BVH action they gave me... (WARNING:Adult Content)

#29 RU2D4

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:50 AM

You have a point on the dancing. I did a sample for TrueBones using a BVH action they gave me... (WARNING:Adult Content)

That looks really good. Did you do the Nice Rack video also? I can't believe it's not getting more views.

#30 John Bigboote

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:37 PM

Yes, I did... I don't have it 'public' on Youtube because... alas, I never finished it. (shame!)

#31 RU2D4

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

I was going for something more like this. Funny thing is, I'm thinking it looks better in just flat shaded mode.

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#32 RU2D4

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

She's trying for the worm, now. Some breakdancing, the robot, etc. I suppose next. Then refinement, and... I'll probably find myself taking some dancing lessons. Actions are coming out in a couple of hours... no constraints, and no muscle action.

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#33 RU2D4

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:17 PM

Yes, I did... I don't have it 'public' on Youtube because... alas, I never finished it. (shame!)

Well,it looks worth finishing to me. I noticed a message at the end about ideas for the finish. I guess I would do more dancing.

#34 RU2D4

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

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#35 RU2D4

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:52 PM

I got an extra dot! :yay:

#36 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:52 AM

In the words of the song, "don't get me wrong"... I wasn't trying to give you the silent treatment. I just didn't think I had much else to say. I wish you well with your efforts. I would suggest avoiding the dancing for a bit but, simply because its easy to get it wrong and very very difficult to get it right and you want your show reel to really sell you to prospective employers ? regards simon
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#37 robcat2075

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:29 AM

To be honest , I'm not exactly sure what you are asking sometimes. :unsure: However, if you ask specific A:M questions someone around here will usually have an answer.

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#38 RU2D4

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:00 PM

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll keep at it and try to improve on my portfolio. I think I'm over the initial excitement which sometimes makes me nuts and some dumb posts come out. Thankfully there is the edit button.

#39 RU2D4

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:33 PM

Got a rain day today, so I went back to work on the image. Does this fix some or most of the suggestions?

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#40 RU2D4

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

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#41 RU2D4

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:32 PM

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#42 RU2D4

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 06:30 PM

Vera's got a gig that "sucks" and I know it sucks, but she thinks she's gonna be famous or something, and I keep telling her she'll be lucky to find a gig at the local candy shop. Then I tell her to live life as if she's already famous, but that doesn't work well either.

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