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#1 Fuchur

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 08:27 AM

I like polar bears very much and like that I started to model a male one two days ago. (these guys can be up to 3.60m from head to bottom... don't wanna fight with one ;) ) Today I am close to start texturing (he still needs claws and teeth) but before I do that, I wanted to know if someone has advises for him so I dont have to re-texture him later on. Let me know what you think :). See you *Fuchur*

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#2 Xtaz

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 08:41 AM

great model.... material ? fur ?
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#3 markw

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:23 AM

An excellent start Fuchur, I like it. :) I confess I'm not well versed in the anatomy of polar bears but do the feet need to be a little bigger? But my biggest advise to avoid retexturing any model would be to save the texturing till the very last thing. Rig it now and test how well the mesh works when moving. I've never had a model yet that didn't need some tweaking or reworking of splines around joints.
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#4 thejobe

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:39 AM

Posted Image
hes about right the fur takes up alot of the bulk
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#5 robcat2075

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:03 AM

based on thejobe's picture it looks like the rear needs to be beefed up. I'll be interested to see what you get when you put hair on that.

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#6 mtpeak2

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:05 AM

Looks great! The only thing I see is his butt seems a bit too low.
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#7 3DArtZ

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:59 AM

Don't forget the skin of a polar bear is black! Nice looking model. Mike Fitz Www.3dartz.com
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#8 Gerry

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:05 PM

Y'know Brainmuffin did a really fabulous polar bear, maybe two years ago, and really nicely rigged from what I remember, good movement in the shoulders and hips. But then I realized he doesn't come around much anymore.
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#9 Fuchur

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:54 PM

Y'know Brainmuffin did a really fabulous polar bear, maybe two years ago, and really nicely rigged from what I remember, good movement in the shoulders and hips. But then I realized he doesn't come around much anymore.


I am more into creating things by myself. That is just more fun and gives me a better feeling when working with it.
Anyway thanks... I will check it out if I can find it.

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#10 John Bigboote

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:21 PM

For some reason, after taking a good look at your polar bear- I was thirsty for a COKE! Great work... rig it with TSM2?

#11 Rodney

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:26 PM

While the perspectives of these two images are from different angles I think the difference can still be seen in the curvature of the spine. If you perfect that spine everything else should fall in line. Additional Question: Is the neck in your model too long? (In the photo think we may be seeing it foreshortened so it's longer than what that would have it appear to be by at least 2/3). Suggestion: Try a version of your polar bear with the neck about 2/3 as long. You can always stretch the neck out further but my thought is that what makes the neck appear longer (or shorter) is when the shoulders move back and forth. As your drawing indicates a normal positioning of the shoulders I'm going to guess that your current neck is too long. Looking good thus far!

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  • spines.png

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#12 Fuchur

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 03:39 AM

While the perspectives of these two images are from different angles I think the difference can still be seen in the curvature of the spine.

If you perfect that spine everything else should fall in line.

Additional Question:
Is the neck in your model too long?
(In the photo think we may be seeing it foreshortened so it's longer than what that would have it appear to be by at least 2/3).

Suggestion:
Try a version of your polar bear with the neck about 2/3 as long.
You can always stretch the neck out further but my thought is that what makes the neck appear longer (or shorter) is when the shoulders move back and forth. As your drawing indicates a normal positioning of the shoulders I'm going to guess that your current neck is too long.

Looking good thus far!


The following image was used to model him, but it is a menacing gesture he is doing there (and he is not a real polar bear but a sculpture in a museum).
Anyway I will have to look at the hair and how I can cut some of it away... the attached image was rendered with hair and took about 10h... that is a little much for my taste for one image.

I did readjust his back-height a little and think it is better now, but I did not yet change his neck-length in the rendered image.
But I think you are right... I will have a look at the length of his neck again. It is just a tiny little bit out of shape. I think the fur made his head a little too big in comparision to the body too.

And here is something heartwarming you may not have known. They can be really nice guys:
Polar Bear and Dogs

See you
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#13 mtpeak2

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 07:47 AM

Anyway I will have to look at the hair and how I can cut some of it away... the attached image was rendered with hair and took about 10h... that is a little much for my taste for one image.

You could try decaling your model or using a patch image for the fur, then you can lower the density of the hair material. Then add a second image to the decal container or patch image to drive the color of the hair.
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#14 NancyGormezano

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 12:24 PM

Yes, hair is quite intensive render wise especially if you do AO. Try fakeao? He/she is looking good.

Perhaps your original model with the sloping back combined with adding a back hump would get you closer to the shape of a polar bear?

And here is something hardwarming you may not have known. They can be really nice guys:
Polar Bear and Dogs


I loved this video! Made me smile! AND fortunately at around 5 secs there was a small side view of a polar bear shape - so here is a rough outline of that polar bear with your model (not exactly side view). Maybe this helps get closer to the shape?

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  • polarbearcomposite.jpg


#15 Fuchur

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 01:38 PM

Yes, hair is quite intensive render wise especially if you do AO. Try fakeao? He/she is looking good.

Perhaps your original model with the sloping back combined with adding a back hump would get you closer to the shape of a polar bear?

And here is something heartwarming you may not have known. They can be really nice guys:
Polar Bear and Dogs


I loved this video! Made me smile! AND fortunately at around 5 secs there was a small side view of a polar bear shape - so here is a rough outline of that polar bear with your model (not exactly side view). Maybe this helps get closer to the shape?


Hi Nancy...

thank you very much :) The outlined version you provided brought me much closer to the shape!
That is a good trick to simplify the image before trying to do the modelling. It helps to focus on what you want to create and not getting distracted by any details you don't need to focus on in the earlier stages :).

I cutted the renderingtime to 1/3 till now by just lowering the density and readjusting a few settings... next I will try an hair-image which will represent several hairs, so that I can multiple it without a much bigger rendertimehit. Maybe I can lower it again with that.

Thank you all for your very helpful responses :).

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#16 Fuchur

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:07 AM

Another update... now with hair... it is a little too bright, but other than that I like it quite much. I have gone a little back like Nancy suggested and tried to reconfigure him to have a higher back, etc. See you *Fuchur*

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#17 mtpeak2

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:23 AM

Looking good. Are you using one of the hair shaders?
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#18 Fuchur

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:44 AM

Looking good.

Are you using one of the hair shaders?


Yes I am using the Hair-Shaders... the first image was created using Kajiya Ka.

The second one was created using Muh hair... I had to make quite many adjustments, but it looks very well...
I am coming closer... a little to bright at his back, but the hair at the other parts looks much better...

See you
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#19 mtpeak2

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:52 AM

Try lowering the brightness of the hair material or lower the strength of the primary and secondary in the shader. You may want to try a darker specular color in the hair material. You could also try using a separate light for specularity at a lower setting and turn off the specular in your main light.
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#20 Fuchur

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:09 AM

Try lowering the brightness of the hair material or lower the strength of the primary and secondary in the shader. You may want to try a darker specular color in the hair material.

You could also try using a separate light for specularity at a lower setting and turn off the specular in your main light.


Got it worked out... lowering the brightness would lower the whole hair brightness too much...
I adjusted the Transulance Deviation (-30) and now it is quite nice.

The lightening is the standard-lightening of the Chor, so it should work for many situations (which I aimed for...)
I although attached an image with my settings, which worked out okay now. (some settings are changed over length, but not the once of the Shader itself.

Density is at 3 and renderingtime is okay too (about 6:15 min per frame with one core).
What do you think?

See you
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  • icebaer_27_0.jpg
  • settings_hair_shader.jpg

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#21 NancyGormezano

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 12:02 PM

The lightening is the standard-lightening of the Chor, so it should work for many situations (which I aimed for...)
I although attached an image with my settings, which worked out okay now. (some settings are changed over length, but not the once of the Shader itself.

Density is at 3 and renderingtime is okay too (about 6:15 min per frame with one core).
What do you think?


Shape, hair looks good!

Hair still looks a bit blown out for the standard A:M lighting. I have found (in the past A:M versions, not sure about this one) that turning down the Primary Strength property of the Muhair specular shader usually had more effect than tinkering with specular size, intensity of the hair emitter.

Specular colors, properties work differently in 16 than they did in 15e (and before). I have the hardest time recreating looks that I use to have.

I think using fakeAO would add some more dimension to the hair, and then fooling with primary, secondary strength properties might not be necessary. Image will appear less blown out. It's a tricky balancing act.

#22 Fuchur

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:11 PM

I worked a little more on it and gave him a (very basic) landscape around him. He is now (at least) basicly rigged. See you *Fuchur*

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#23 Vertexspline

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:56 PM

He is shaping up really well Fuchur----------Nice job on model and a very nice character --Cannot wait to see him starting fishing.
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#24 Simon Edmondson

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:53 PM

Pardon my comment as I'm not in a position to make critical observations about what looks outstanding to me. However, for your information... Have you see the film "bThe Golden Compass" ( Danial Craig and Nicole Kidman star in it but its not their story ). It is set in a paralell world and a large section of it features Polar Bears, some of which wear armour... regards simon
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#25 robcat2075

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:29 PM

Is that front knee backwards or is it just an odd angle?

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#26 robcat2075

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

Even though Polar Bear hair is ostensibly not colored at all, you might try a slight dark-to-light color gradient along the length of the hairto give it a bit more depth.

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#27 robcat2075

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:05 PM

how about something like this: Attached File  hairtestV11_BearHair.prj   17.37KB   26 downloads BearHair.JPG

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#28 Rodney

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 03:39 PM

Posted Image

That's looking really impressive Fuchur.
Love the colors!

Is that front knee backwards or is it just an odd angle?


It looks backward (sideways?) to me.
If it is just the angle we are seeing it from then I would suggest sticking that 'arm' straight out and then bending the bear's left elbow backward.
This would serve several purposes one of which is to place a little weight down on the left front leg.
Right now it doesn't seem to me that any of his weight is bearing down on his legs. (pun intended!)
(I'll be glad to draw it if I'm not being clear)

Right now it seems there is a hint of this polar bear being a toy and I can only guess that it's the leg that is creating that perception.

Impressive hair Robert.

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#29 Fuchur

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:06 PM

Posted Image

That's looking really impressive Fuchur.
Love the colors!

Is that front knee backwards or is it just an odd angle?


It looks backward (sideways?) to me.
If it is just the angle we are seeing it from then I would suggest sticking that 'arm' straight out and then bending the bear's left elbow backward.
This would serve several purposes one of which is to place a little weight down on the left front leg.
Right now it doesn't seem to me that any of his weight is bearing down on his legs. (pun intended!)
(I'll be glad to draw it if I'm not being clear)

Right now it seems there is a hint of this polar bear being a toy and I can only guess that it's the leg that is creating that perception.

Impressive hair Robert.


I made a few updates and used Robert's method for hair rendering and got rid of the muhair-shader. Quite nice looking.
And yes it was the wrong way looking. Changed that too.
I had to increase the density again and got rid of shadow-throwing for the hair which brought me down to about 6:45 per pass. Otherwise it was close to twice that render time,

I know the Golden Compass and liked it, so I am not yet sure if I am after that kind of look... I will however have a look at it again. Thanks for the advise

See you and thanks for the input... helped a lot!
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#30 robcat2075

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:27 AM

I think you could go with even shaggier hair.

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#31 Fuchur

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:12 PM

I think you could go with even shaggier hair.


Jep, thought about that too. I think I am ready to go on with him now.
It looks like a good combination between shagginess and softness of the hair.
What do you think?

I got the rendertimes per pass down to less than 5 mins at 720p-resolution.
Thats okay for me for now.

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#32 robcat2075

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:41 PM

I think his outline looks too rigid. I'm thinking some shaggier hair that wasn't so perfectly combed would help break that up and make him look furrier.

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#33 mtpeak2

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:22 PM

I would add some hair direction variation and add variation to the length as well in the emitter.
2008 Rig updated 04/20/2011

#34 Fuchur

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:29 PM

I would add some hair direction variation and add variation to the length as well in the emitter.


I am working on it. I am doing variation of length and the master variation-value is increased too.
The thing that most like takes an effect however is, that I copy the emitter and change the more important settings there too.
Interestingly enough, the rendertimes are now smaller than before. ( I am not sure why, since one emitter is at 1 density, the other is at 3 and before copying I used 4 as density...)

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#35 detbear

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:48 AM

Fuchur, I need to send you an inquiry via e-mail but I don't know how. How can I best contact you? William

#36 Fuchur

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:10 AM

Fuchur,

I need to send you an inquiry via e-mail but I don't know how. How can I best contact you?

William


Hi William,

the best way to get in touch with me is using my website's contact-form:
Visit My Website

I will answer with my normal email-address, but I don't like to give my mail-address out on a forum because of spam-problems.

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#37 detbear

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:19 AM

Hey Fuchur, I understand... I sent you an email via your website form. William

#38 Fuchur

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:27 AM

...and here we go again. ;) I like it much better this way with the shaggier hair... So I think I may have to render more passes or increase the thickness again to get rid of some alias-effects where hair lies on other hair. Or I have decrease the variation again to get less contrast between the hair. Anyone know how to change the background-color when using an Alpha-Channel? I think the blending to black is getting the hair wrong when I compose it with the background-image using the alpha-channel (I do that in photoshop) I would need a white color to blend at the transparent-hair there so I can get that less noticeable so I am not sure how that can be done. See you *Fuchur*

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#39 robcat2075

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:37 AM

Anyone know how to change the background-color when using an Alpha-Channel? I think the blending to black is getting the hair wrong when I compose it with the background-image using the alpha-channel (I do that in photoshop) I would need a white color to blend at the transparent-hair there so I can get that less noticeable so I am not sure how that can be done.


I believe the halo problem may be the difference between interpreting the alpha channel as "Straight" or "Premultiplied"

A:M alpha channels are "premultiplied"

After Effects has an import option for that.

In Photoshop, there's a menu option to "Remove Black Matte"

Removing_Matte.JPG

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#40 Fuchur

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:48 AM

I did know about premultiplied alphas (had to struggle with that when composing particles in AfterEffects) but I neve knew there was an option in Photoshop to get rid of that! Thanks Robert... very helpful! See you *Fuchur*
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